Spider Man petition

With the success of 'X-men' every comic book movie project will be pushed into hyperdrive. We've all heard about Sam Raimi and 'Spiderman' and most of us have heard bits and pieces of the story idea. I don't know about you but the whole 'biological webspinners' idea seems an unnecessary departure from the established story, possibly a negative one. I certainly find the idea somewhat creepy. I came across a quote from Brian Singer where he talks of his experiences at cons and how the fans prompted him to add more fight scenes to 'X-Men'. Why not take this a step further? Every movie made today is screened for test audiences and focus groups, it is part of the process. If a (relatively) small group of people can influence a film that is already in the can, maybe a (hopefully)larger group can have a greater impact on a film still in preproduction. Let's tell Sam Raimi and the studio what we would like to see and who we would like. Hollywood is used to doing things by committee, and to making changes to maximize the box-office. Let's use these things to our advantage. 'X-Men' made $57.5 million because of US. We are the MAKERS of manners, to quote Shakespeare. If we let ourselves be heard in sufficient numbers, we can pressure the suits into doing these projects right. I mean, 'Ghost Rider' as some kind of voodoo slave? Tom Cruise as 'Captain America'? The fact that these ideas even make it to press is cause for concern. WE are the ones who decide whether a genre movie succeeds; it is US, the fans, that make the difference between a franchise and a flop. Witness the demise of the 'Batman' franchise. They ignored us, dismissed us, and we stepped on them for their insolence. I don't feel I exaggerate our impact. We can sway even the studios if we speak up loudly enough. What I propose is that we email Sony and let them know our thoughts on this matter and this matter alone: No 'organic' webshooters. Someone has posted notice of an upcoming website devoted solely to this topic over at spidermanhype.com, and I'm sure there are similar movements afoot elsewhere. What we need to do is quit discussing amongst ourselves and start communicating with Sony DIRECTLY, DELIBERATELY, and SOON. The longer we let this nonsense go the harder it will be to correct, if we even can. I'm not quite sure of the mechanics of how to do this, so I'd love to hear suggestions. If we could hit them with a petition or open letter, dump a thousand or more signatures on them at once, they'd listen to us; they'd be afraid not to.

[Eddie5]

I, for one wouldnt mind if they were biological. Sometimes, Little surprises work. Fans might have objected if they knew Aliens was going to be more action oriented than horror. But the damn thing worked.

Fan influences arent neccesarily a good thing.

[Coyote]

And I might be interested in Cruise as Cap'n. But then again, you have to understand I'm not a big fan of his. Didn't like Cyclops either, until Marsden played him.
I'm also not a huge fan of Spidey, but I am interested in the movie.
I still want an animated (black & white) cable series for Cerebus.
And Mage to go into production.
And Gaiman to get Death off the ground.
And Storm to be a background character in X2.

[Eddie5]

Oh yes! Gaiman's Death and add Good Omens to that as well.

[flint]

I think the Biological Webspinners thing is really a minor detail, something thrown in to give the film a little twist, nothing more. What we should worry about is whether the basic characters and histories of the heroes are screwed around with.

Myself, it really annoys me when the Heroes always seem to have a personal vendetta to settle with the main villan (Batman, Blade) when in the comics they never did. The only hero who really needed that kind of motivation was 'The Punisher' (I think...), most other heroes do it out of a sense of justice, or fair play or whatever. Having a personal grudge to settle sort of cheapens it somewhat, IMHO.

[Jason Pollock]

When I was small, I wouldn't go anywhere without wearing my Spidey PJ's. I had Spidey Cup, Spidey Bowl, and Spidey Spoon. I had Spidey Cars, Spidey Toys, and Spidey Underoos. I never killed Spiders because I hoped one would bite me and give me powers.

I am one of the biggest Spider-Man fans you'll find.

That said-I love Sam Raimi. I love Cameron's treatment.

Two of the best things about the treatment were the amazing way Cameron handled the burgeoning relationship between MJ and PP, and the puberty-like transformation of PP into Spidey.

The web-spinner thing was a surprise that made me scream when I read it-it's a development so excellent that it seems like it should have always been there.

The only thing it does is negatively effect Pete's intellect-without building the web-spinners himself, they'll need to showcase his genius in another way.

Not a big problem.

We're in good hands with Sam, I think.

Oh-and Singer shouldn't have let con geeks or anyone else talk him into fights in X-Men. I'd trade a couple lackluster fight scenes for the 45 minutes of missing character development any day.

One of the funniest things about that movie is the comments that Storm and Cyclops are nearly non-entities...

I'll bet they're sitting on the cutting room floor because the studio got it in its hive-mind from SOMEWHERE that people wanted fights-not drama.

Let Sam take care of it.

Granted, if Jan De Bont were helming Spider-Man, I'd be scoping the Sony backlot with a sniper rifle, but...

[This message has been edited by Hot Animal Machine (edited 07-20-2000).]

[Eddie5]

As usual, HAM...well said.

Spidey jammies,eh?

Raimi has decided to go with the organics and there's nothing any petition can do. He thinks they will help streamline the narrative process and help better convey Peter Parker's dilemma to the audience. Let Raimi be. I'm sure he thought long and hard over this decision and he came out the other side realizing that organics were a necessary plot device. I doubt he's just doing it for change sake. We'll still get the best of Peter Parker and Spider-man, but expecting nothing to be changed is far too naive.

At least Raimi is working his ass off, that should make Spider fans happy. But of course, most will be ungrateful and spiteful.
Trust the guy, he loves Spidey too.

[Hellblazer]

Did you have the ones with the little red footies on the bottom, HAM?

[Eddie5]

His footies might find their way into YOUR bottom....

[Jason Pollock]

Absolutely. And the mask you tied to the back of the PJ's. I used to have two of those wrist-mounted Web shooters with the suction cups on them, and I'd shoot them to the ceiling and jump off the table-I knew they didn't hold-I knew it was only three feet off of the ground-but I imagined I was soaring.

I so want Raimi to make me feel this way again.

And he will.

[Coyote]

Did the mask have huge bulging eyes like the 70's tv movies?

I think that comic book fans (myself included) need to get a little distance from the source material. This shit ain't the Bible. When translated to another medium, not only must the limitations or abilities of that new medium be considered, but so must also the artistic and creative sensibilities of the people doing the translating.

That said, I wouldn't use biological shooters if I were Sam Raimi. But I'm not. And I will wait until I see the movie (not the first photo, not the casting scoops, not the trailer, not a review) before I decide for myself.

Well said devilf. To boycott the film without even giving the idea a chance is pretty crazy. People have waited an eternity to see Spidey in a movie, now all the sudden they're going to just never see the film because of the organic webshooters. The webshooters don't make Spider-man Spider-man. There's far more important aspects to the character, aspects Raimi certainly will not change or leave out of the film.

I am not talking about boycotting the film, and I'm a fan of Sam Raimi. Read my original posting again and you'll see what I'm driving at. I also agree that the source material isn't sacrosanct and that changes have to be made. Enough changes are made for the sake of adaptation and marketability, though. Why add one that is based on a misguided attempt at 'relevance'?

Well I was checking out Hype! and that's the buzz over there, a boycott.

You may think the attempt is misguided, but Raimi doesn't. And he's the director.

....and besides, the webshooters seem to be a natural effect of the bizarre spider bite thing. Lemme tellya, I'm looking as forward to this film as I was with X-Men. In fact longer. I was as much a Spider-fan as anyone here - and I have another generation Spider-fan, my 6-year-old boy. By the time this film comes out he will be just old enough to see it and I will have the joy of seeing it through his eyes.

Fan petitions? I have an idea: make your own film! This one belongs to Sam Raimi.

Personally, I will let Raimi entertain me because I think he can do it as well as Bryan Singer did with X-Men.

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-KRONOS

[Eddie5]

Exactly.

Let the Film maker make his movie. Unless a severely drastic gross blunder is being made, leave him be. I rather be surprised by the movie than manipulate it to suit my purposes.

Personally, I think Raimi is going to do better than Singer. It's a better character, with better possibilties for film transition. And two amazing villains.

[Eddie5]

An easier movie to make than X-Men since he has a single character to contend with....but with a far more severe repercussion if he fails.

[Jason Pollock]

No, Coyote-it didn't. But I approximated the look by popping the lenses out of a pair of Spidey Eye-shaped sunglasses and gluing them onto the felt.

And the only problems I've had with what I've heard so far are-

The hack writers associated with the project-Rosenberg and KOEPP?

Give me Cameron's treatment and two months and Jimmy can hoist me on his shoulders while I scream about being the "King of the World" come Oscar time.

And the use of two villains-pick one, dammit. This isn't BATMAN. Slow down. Know why there were only three muties in the Brotherhood in the X-Men flick?

'CAUSE SIX IS TOO MANY!

Slow. Down.

Choose ONE.

That's what I think.

And nascent-I'm not sure anyone thinks you're overzealous, I just think you stumbled into a patch o' kids that don't mind-or downright love-the idea of the organic web spinners.

I also have a lot more faith in Raimi than I ever did in Singer. Raimi will be in his element here - fastpaced, hyperkinetic action with quirky characters and funny dialouge. Nothing about Apt Pupil or Usual Suspects told me that Singer could do a comic book movie.

My point? Raimi gets full benefit of the doubt.

STORM cannot and should not be a 'background character" in X2, Hell, she ends up LEADING the group for quite a while.

If you let her use her powers more, and get into her persona then it would rock.

Sheez, Storm could kick Wolverines ASS any day.

CONTROLING ALL ASPECTS OF WEATHER....think about it!
...and spidey can have organic web shooters, doesnt seem any more far fetched than the spider bite making him able to stick to surfaces.

Anyone see the issue of "What If..."
where Spidey continued to mutate?

that was cool, more and more into a SPIDER.

it was a fun read!

[Eddie5]

Would the usage of organic webbing be akin to blood loss? Will the organic webbing be limitless and if it isnt, how does he restore it?

I think the 2 villains is fine for this film. Doc Ock is a great villain for Spidey, but I don't think he's enough for a feature. He needs to be there so we can see the experiment go wrong and show him as the evil half of a Janus face to Peter's good one, a tie between the two is important. Plus he's got those dope tentacles for effects. But as far as his plotting on the world, I don't know if he's enough to carry the feature. Goblin needs to be there, perhaps more in the background at first, only as Norman Osborn, perhaps manipulating Doc Ock(I know another departure) until he is changed and starts to wreck some havoc. He's Spidey's nemesis, the big villain, and needs to be in the first film to set himself up for the series. They should go for broke with the first film. Goblin shouldn't be saved. I he think should sort of always be around in the series, not be killed off like The Joker, a mistake in the Batman franchise. Plus, Spidey has such an array of great villains that there'll be plenty for the rest of the films. But like I said, let's get one great film made first. Singer proved that a bunch of characters can be handled. Raimi's task is a little more difficult, but I think it can be done.

I've posted my thoughts on this matter in the AICN forums and we're starting to get an open letter together. Basically, we're going to send a polite, non-threatening letter/petition to Sam Raimi c/o Sony letting him know we'd prefer he didn't alter something so fundamental to the character as the webshooters. I have been unable to access Spidermanhype, otherwise I'd try to get the posters there involved too. Anybody interested?

You know, one of the problems I had with biological web shooters is now gone. I always liked the way that Spideys webs would run out at the worst possible moment, and I thought this wouldn't happen with bio shooters. But now Eddie 5 makes me realize that not only COULD Spidey's bio webs run out, excess use of them could sap his strength, potentially.

All right, I like the bio shooters.

Well, there ya have it folks - AICN strikes stupid again!

Shouldn'ta brought up that rag......



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-KRONOS

[Hellblazer]

HAM, you suck. I've always had big feet, and even the largest pair of footie pajamas would make my toes curl back, so I was forced to run around in red socks. Curse you and your normal sized feet!

I'm with you all the way, bro'. I have faith in Sam. And now that Blade and X-Men have proven that a comic book movie can be intelligent and dramatic, with realistic action, and =make money=, maybe the studio will back up and let a good movie get made.

Hellblazer

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"Man, why can't they bring back or remake =good= shows, like 'BJ & the Bear'? Now there's a concept I can't get enough of; a man and his monkey."

If you are in favor of the organics, more power to you. I am not. As far as AICN, whatever you may think of the site, I don't see now that impacts the subject matter at hand. I have little doubt that the charges levelled by CA and others are true; nevertheless, I find there are some things of value on the site. I am not partisan in any way. Lastly, I wonder if it is strictly necessary to label me 'stupid', even if only by implication, solely because I use a forum you don't approve of.

[Jason Pollock]

They USED to be normal-sized feet, Hellblazer.

I wear a size fourteen now.

And my web-shooters don't support me at all anymore.

[grendel]

Nascent:

I approve of your resistance to organic webshooters while at the same time having no feeling on the matter myself one way or the other, and to top it off with I'm a HUGE spideyfan! However, I have heard that Raimi is an affable, approachable fellow, and I think an open, non-threatening letter is a fine forum through which to approach him, the more names and legitimacy you can give it the better.

As for AICN, I didn't get your last comment (you visit the site, most of us don't, no big deal). I hereby judge you UN-stupid and bless you in the name of the CHUD. Go your way and AICN no more...

grendel=CHUD Bishop

[This message has been edited by grendel (edited 07-20-2000).]

[Jason Pollock]

That's absolutely true. This nascent guy is posting very intelligently-and his beef is legit. Don't bag on 'im until he starts crying "censorship" or something.

AICN IS a pollutant, however.

On the "web-shooter" thing-I've read that even Mighty Marvel and Stan Lee LOVE it-so what you're doing may be a tough sell.

Besides-the origins of comic characters are revised so often, it wouldn't surprise me one bit to see this web concept implemented on the printed page, as well...

[This message has been edited by Hot Animal Machine (edited 07-20-2000).]

Thus sayeth the CHUD!

...and nascent: I never said you were stupid if you'll look, I said AICN strikes stupid - we have a thing about them here at the Sewer, and it ain't good......

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-KRONOS

[Eddie5]

When Spidey first started out, It was more than probable that people would have thought liquid sticky stuff coming out of his hands potentially weird and icky. Clinging to walls,however, was cool.

But now, it probably makes more sense that a spider bite that accorded him spider like attributes would also bestow upon him the power of webbing. The folks today wouldnt find that too weird unless of course they cling to the old comic books as a bible.

The organics would make an interesting deviation in the spider story.

Its not a major thing but it would, at least, be interesting. Creativity forwards the story.Evolution,folks, is fun...and is a whole lot more intriguing.

What would be cooler would be if Spidey had webbing come out of his cock.

And if they made Goblin and Doc Ock chicks. And he had to web up their faces.

Excuse me, I need to be alone..

[grendel]

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHA!!!


That's it. You just killed me.

[Eddie5]

Actually, that thought ran through my head when I said liquid sticky stuff coming out...I knew someone was going to make a connection, only I thought it would be grendel. Porn seems to be his domain...and wacky links, of course.

[Seahawk]

I don't know if its been mentioned, but there was a live action Spiderman movie sometime back. I rented it at Famous Viedo, but then never rented it again cause it was partly stupid. I think that this one will rock and us spider fans appetites will be whetted
Seahawk

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"Hold onta' ya' butts!'

Organic webs is FINE, as long as they dont spray out his ASS. Id hate to see Spidey squatting ,looking all constipated on a roof top, trying to spray a web out.......

[Coyote]

PLEASEPLEASEPLEASEPLEASE don't fall in the Batman trap...let the main character be more important than the villians.
Please.
Batman is, unfortunately, merely the 3-ring binder to hold the character sheets of the bad guys.

lol ..

remember the LIVE ACTION spiderman shorts on the ELECTRIC COMPANY....
LOL those were so goofy

[grendel]

I LOVED those! In fact, they're the ONLY reason that I watched the Electric Company! How he threw that bunched up black net! Aww yeah!

And wasn't that guy like, EXTREMELY short? Like, 5'4? Like DANZIG short?

Hi. Since this thread seems to have gone slightly off-topic, I'll restate my purpose for starting it: I am opposed to the organic webshooters idea and would like to convince Sam Raimi and Sony that there are others who feel as I do. It is my hope that if enough people were to make their feelings known en masse it might have some sway on the course the film will take, since they are still working on the script. For you previous posters, this is not a rebuke. I simply wish to see what the prevailing opinion is on the topic, and to keep the disussion directed towards that end.

[Eddie5]

And the prevailing opinion as you would be able to surmise is that all posters resident here do not mind the organic webshooters.

True. I thought I'd put my opinion back up for comment for the reasons I stated and also in case someone were a little leery of bucking the prevailing trend. Also, the day is young, and I'd like to help the latecomers see what was the issue at hand. I figure I'll see how this progresses as the day goes on.

[Jason Pollock]

Well, don't mean to be rude, guy-or gal-as the case may be, but I think that the thought expressed thus far is that the shooter idea is either "okay" or really cool.

Either way is fine-but I think the web shooters being a part of him is so much more powerful a statement-it taps into his isolation and alienation. It's nice.

At least he won't be throwing the Electric Company net.

So this thread has not really so much gone off-topic as it has found its own comfort level within the topic.

[Blofeld]

I'm in support of organic webslingers, and also in support of letting the creative beings create their own creations, creating creations of creatures to whatever degree of creativity they wish to create.