The Watchmen Pre-Release Discussion (Spoilery Version)

[Steve Moonrocket]

"Oh no, It's the God Dam Watchmen!"

[stelios]

The most unacceptable change for me would be Dan going after Veidt to avenge Rorschach's death.

[duke fleed]

Actually, I'd like to see...Dr. Manhattan Send his (Veidt's) ass to Mars as punishment for the death of The Comedian, and as a last favor to Laurie aka Silk Spectre II.

[stelios]

Of course you would.

[joeypants]

Originally Posted by duke fleed

Actually, I'd like to see...Dr. Manhattan Send his (Veidt's) ass to Mars as punishment for the death of The Comedian, and as a last favor to Laurie aka Silk Spectre II.

Man, Fleed, I'm WITH you there. If this doesn't happen, I'm walking the fuck out and throwing a drink at the screen.


Seriously though,I agree, Stelios, if Veidt dies, that's a BIG ONE. Also, if they somehow axe the whole monologue/explanation from Veidt leading up to the "I'm not a Republic serial villain... I did it 35 minutes ago," I'm going to be sorely disappointed.

[Dan]

I'm not quite as attached to the book as most of you are, but it seems to me that there are slight hints of homosexuality in the story.

I'm expecting Snyder to ramp it up, perhaps this time topping 300's suggestiveness - with some full on gay porn.

Perhaps this wouldn't upset the fans, I don't really know - but i'm pretty sure it's meant to be subtle. It'd bother me slightly.

[Schwartz]

Originally Posted by Bees?!

I'm not quite as attached to the book as most of you are, but it seems to me that there are slight hints of homosexuality in the story.

You're right. If you look closely, you can find them right behind all the direct statements and overt depictions of it.

[Dan]

Sorry Schwartz, perhaps my suggestion of full gay porn wasn't sarcastic enough.

[Schwartz]

Well, no one believed me when I told them the raging hard-on I was sporting throughout 300 was sarcastic, so it's kind of a sore subject.

[Renn Brown]

A simple,



would have sufficed, Bees?!

I'm wrangling with the decision on whether I will be watching any more trailers. It's tough to maintain that kind of discipline, but the few times that I have, I found myself much happier. I gathered from the Q&A that Snyder has really punched up the imagery and the epic tone (something I trust he'll be good at) to compensate for the lack of overt "action." I think I'll be doing the movie a disservice to have seen all that beautiful imagery on a shitty monitor. This last production diary started me thinking about this.

And why haven't every one of the diaries been available in HD? Am I missing something?

[Erix]

Originally Posted by stelios

The most unacceptable change for me would be Dan going after Veidt to avenge Rorschach's death.

But... what if he were to fail?

See, here's the thing. I've been thinking long and hard (homosexual undertones) about all this and I've realized that I am prepared to accept any change that is valid for storytelling purposes. What I mean is, if it works for the movie that was made, and it is ultimately a good movie, I am prepared to forgive that they may have deviated from the book.

It's if they do things for the sake of doing them or for commercial concessions where I get peeved because then they have lost the essence of the material altogether. Then it doesn't fly.

Changes have to be made sometimes. You want to make the material your own even as you're honoring some established work... So I can roll with it if they have a justified reason for doing it.

Example: True Romance. The screenplay Tarantino wrote had a tragic ending. Scott made it a happy ending. Tarantino conceded that the ending Scott made was good for that movie. Tarantino's version of the movie would have been different and a happy ending would not have fit.

On some level, you can apply that same logic here. I will accept any change that doesn't sacrifice the essence of what Watchmen is about. If the point is made, and it's a satisfying movie, I'll be happy.

I do want to see Alan Moore's Watchmen - but I wouldn't mind if some of that is also Zach Snyder's Watchmen. That's what the medium is all about.

I wasn't that bothered by the changes in V for Vendetta I thought that movie was just fine. (Though I am a bigger fan of this property, so who knows?)

Things seem to be on the good side of things right now. I'm not worried.

[joeypants]

Originally Posted by Renn Brown

And why haven't every one of the diaries been available in HD? Am I missing something?

The good news is, YOU ARE!

watchmenmovie.com > production diaries. They're all there in HD glory.

[Renn Brown]

I checked the site once, long ago. Didn't see them.

Bless you sir.

[joeypants]

After going back and re-reading the Hayter and Tse drafts, both of those have shitty endings in multiple ways, and I really hope they're going with neither. Particularly the Tse draft, with the "fake Manhattan" voice over and everything SPELLING IT OUT for the whole world to stop fighting. If they go that far with muddying up the ending, then they have truly missed the major points of the book.

I hope that's not what he's done.

[Erix]

I never bothered reading any of the screenplays. I don't like to do that with a movie I haven't seen.

I'll take people's word for it that they have problems. But apparently what we're getting here is an amalgam of both Tse and Hayter (credited only to Tse). Hopefully they took the best of both.

[Francis Wolcott]

I want to see Zack Snyder's Watchmen. Alan Moore's comic is one of my favorite things in the world, and the movie won't replace that. If I want the experience of it, I'll re-read it.

The fake Manhattan thing, having thought about it a lot, is not a bad idea, by any means. And the points they miss from the book as a consequence of no squid are points that were explicitly about comic books. It's OK if they are gone. Fake Manhattan depends on execution, not on concept. Concept is fine and I don't get why you (joeypants) mention the "SPELLING IT OUT". I haven't read those drafts, so I suppose it has to do with the execution? Because Manhattan flat-out telling the world is not that different (from Veidt's POV) from the psychic hallucinations/ripples people that survived the squid attack were supposed to have and since from Veidts POV the point was to get the Cold War boilerplate done, I don't see why Veidt's movie version couldn't have Manhattan flat out telling the world to cool it, considering Manhattan already has some sort of presence in the world.
The only key I'd hope he makes clear is Manhattan deciding to leave before he is framed or at least using Veidt's plan as a reason even though "we get" he would have left anyway.

[joeypants]

Look, the whole "fake Manhattan" thing does make sense in a way.

I guess my problems come from the fact that Watchmen is really about as perfect as you can get with a comic, or damn near a story in any medium. So other than snipping things and what little tweaks you have to make to logically accommodate those snips, I just don't see why fuck with details like that. I don't see any room for improvement with what Moore did aside from what's needed to condense it to a feature film format.

In a subtle, stylistic sense, it is far less interesting and impactful (to me), having Manhattan appear out of a cloud (or is it actually meaning he IS a cloud, I couldn't tell) and say shit to people (all around the world no less, in different languages) like: "This is Dr. Manhattan. For years, I have watched humanity barrel ignorantly down the path to destruction. This ends tonight." Then "he" sends a bunch of lightning down and it kills random people around the world.

Look, I'm open to the fact that MAYBE he can pull something like that off (assuming that is what he's doing), but why? It's one thing to do like in Hayter's draft and replace the squid with a weapon that wrecks New York. It's just I think from a thematic/story standpoint, you're "fixing (or breaking) what's not broke" when you go directly involving Manhattan in the attack/destruction. Whatever is ends up being, I think it's important that it's divorced from any of the characters (from the public's perception, anyway).

But when you involve Manhattan in it, it changes a lot of things thematically (which, depending on what you really value about Watchmen, could be little things or big things). It totally changes the fact that Manhattan doesn't really leave of his own free will, something that's pretty crucial to that character's wrap up.

Also, the fact that humanity is left with just the assumption that some alien thing has savagely attacked them, and that THEY DECIDE to come together (or not?) is a biggie. And I think carries a much better impact than if they're more or less "forced" into it by what they think is Dr. Manhattan.

This is one of the few changes that I just don't see, regardless of what context it's in, myself watching and not feeling like "it shouldn't have been fucked with." It will take my enjoyment of the film down a few notches at best, and make me really disappointed at worst.

But, that's me. Many of you don't really care, and that's great. I envy you in some ways. This is part of why this thing has always been considered "untouchable." It's inescapable that it's going to be stacked up against the greatness of the graphic novel. I fucking love that graphic novel, and yes it'll always be there. But I'm not going to just give the thing a free pass because he made an adequate Watchmen adaptation, and put his stamp all over it where it didn't need to be done.

However, I really enjoyed V for Vendetta as a film, even though it is radically different from the graphic novel (which I also love). Was it the greatest film ever? No. Did it miss out on tons of opportunities for bringing shit over from the graphic novel (which was also formatted in a way that would've been impossible to "directly" translate to a feature film)? Yes. But it didn't stop me from enjoying that. So, strangers things have happened. I'm not giving up, and I'm already sure I'll enjoy the film in many capacities.

But, it's Watchmen, you know? I can't help but want it to be great.

[devincf]

Originally Posted by joeypants

It totally changes the fact that Manhattan doesn't really leave of his own free will, something that's pretty crucial to that character's wrap up.

Is this a typo?

[joeypants]

Originally Posted by devincf

Is this a typo?

Don't think so (but it's late and I'm tired). What are you getting at?

Wouldn't you agree that Manhattan pretty much leaves (in the novel and Hayter's draft) because he's disinterested with humanity on earth? What I gathered from the Tse draft (fake Manhattan ending) is that he kind of leaves because he's ashamed of his involvement (or what the public perceives as his involvement).

[joeypants]

Sweet fucking Jesus, nevermind. I see what I did there.

Fixed: It totally changes the fact that Manhattan leaves of his own free will, something that's pretty crucial to that character's wrap up.

[Francis Wolcott]

"Manhattan leaves of his own free will" is kinda paradoxical, considering how he actually views time and casualty. It's neither of them. It's not like he leaves because he's forced to, but the detachment he has from humanity, including even Laurie is essential to his decision. And that includes the cancer allegations (which would now also be part of the "fake Manhattan" seeds). I suggest you re-read those issues and check if he really just leaves because he wants to. You could make a case of how his own detachment takes him away, particularly his "I could create some life" thing, which only happens because he already is a God and has no purpose on Earth.

I understand your concerns tho, but it all depends on execution. If it comes off like Manhattan left because he was ashamed, that does sound like a misstep (barring some incredibly great narrative reason for it), but otherwise it's about as natural a progression of events as Manhattan can have.
And about the "don't fix it" attitude, I think we'd have to evaluate that, because I'd say that from the perspective of a film, the idea of the squid is pretty broken. The squid is, after all, a punchline that serves not so much as the effect of Veidt's destruction, but the actual relationship between that event and what the comic is about (all the meta stuff) and also, it serves to create a link between the Black Freighter and the main narrative (via the newsstand and the artist) while also augmenting that sense of "something is building" and drawing out the intensity of the issues (it's after all on the newsstand where we begin to see how batshit insane the world is becoming), but those things don't work as well in a 3 hour movie. In the comic, having 12 issues, they can help make the eventual end feel more part of an actual "dramatic line" and invest us in it, but if you think about it, the comic is supremely layered and tangential and in a 3 hour movie, all those scenes wouldn't so much increase the interest in the movie, they would probably slow it down because they already have to weave a longer narrative into a "shorter" medium (though it mostly only has to do with how we experience it).
The squid was a problem for any draft because keeping it would still require cutting all those other things and then it's just keeping it for its own sake. Fake Manhattan seems elegant enough (again, depending on execution), I suppose there could be other ways to handle it, but I can't think of any and it doesn't look like they went with any new one, so at this point it only depends on the execution of the end, as opposed to the actual change. After all, the point of the end is much more important than the amount of tentacles it has.

What I would wonder though is if it's a "Manhattan" voice everywhere, how much would that fuck up the "35 minutes" ago line? Shouldn't technically Dan and Rorschach have heard it those 35 minutes before?

[devincf]

Jon leaving of his own free will after being framed for killing millions is great because it shows how little he gives a shit. Especially because he lets Adrian live.

[Schwartz]

I don't see how "spelling everything out" is a concern. It would be a decent alternate title for issue 11.

And as far as Manhattan leaving out of shame, I don't know why you'd even think that. For one, it's a fake. For another, look how he allows himself to be used by the government. But mostly, if the point is that he leaves because he doesn't give a shit about mankind, why would he feel the need to set the record straight or justify himself?

[Francis Wolcott]

The fact that Jon doesn't give a shit is important too, as a final deconstruction of the "Superman" archetype, makes a great parallel with the scenes with the Comedian and the fact that he didn't stop a certain major assassination. It's not like it's even unexpected, were it not for convention.

[joeypants]

Originally Posted by devincf

Jon leaving of his own free will after being framed for killing millions is great because it shows how little he gives a shit. Especially because he lets Adrian live.

Yeah, I suppose it can still work. The more I set with it, I think it could grow on me. Especially since, as you pointed out, he still forgives Veidt and really could care less when he leaves.

Like Wolcott said, it's all in the execution.

And Wolcott, you made some good points, all of which I agree with. Also, I've never really had a problem with getting rid of the squid itself. I've always know that the sub-plot leading up to/involving the creation of the squid would most likely be cut, and as such, a huge squid would be too weird and "WTF!?" to work on film. My main concern was making it overtly tied to Manhattan rather than just a "force from beyond."

But, worse things could happen (see: Veidt getting killed). If he executes it well, I could very well end up liking "fake Manhattan." Especially if we look at it in "Jaws terms," hopefully I'll be so sold by that point that it'll be all the easier to swallow.

Though personally, I still think it'd be better for the ending if the people of earth have to decide on their own that "hey, we have to pull it together." I think that carries more weight and makes the journal lying at the New Frontiersman more jarring. If they're only pulling it together because the big Manhattan cloud told them to, then they're not really doing it for themselves. Their cowering in fear of an all powerful "god." Though, I suppose that still leaves them susceptible to letting it all fall apart if they find out Adrian did it all along.

[Francis Wolcott]

I think you're more hopeful than me as I never really read it with the "have to pull it together" feeling. I figured it was pretty much as fear-based as Manhattan ordering you to do it would be, considering how the News Frontiersman guy didn't seem to be thrilled about it nor considering it a sort of duty, and as far as making that scene the last one, I'd say it's also telling of how Moore sees it.
I concede though that I may be completely mind-reading that and that you could be right on that point. I'll re-read those scenes at some point, but it did feel very pragmatic and not at all idealistic.

[Schwartz]

The point of Veidt's plan is that humanity won't pull together on their own, and that he has to force them into the corner to make it happen. Whether he uses fake Manhattan or fake interdimensional space squid doesn't alter the dynamic there.

Edit: or, what Walcott said.

[joeypants]

Originally Posted by Francis Wolcott

I think you're more hopeful than me as I never really read it with the "have to pull it together" feeling. I figured it was pretty much as fear-based as Manhattan ordering you to do it would be, considering how the News Frontiersman guy didn't seem to be thrilled about it nor considering it a sort of duty, and as far as making that scene the last one, I'd say it's also telling of how Moore sees it.
I concede though that I may be completely mind-reading that and that you could be right on that point. I'll re-read those scenes at some point, but it did feel very pragmatic and not at all idealistic.

No, I pretty much read it like you. I just meant the difference being after the disaster in the book, the public makes the intuitive decision to put a halt to all the fighting (even though it's on shaky ground and, as we saw after 9/11, is just waiting to fall apart).

In the "fake Manhattan" version, he explicitly tells them they MUST stop fighting. So, to me it makes them less likely to go against the "truce" because they think that as soon as they don't, the big blue man is going to come out of the sky and zap them all again.

Granted, the journal is (presumably) still left at the paper, dangling the prospect of the plot being exposed to some degree. I just think it's more effective to have the public not thinking about the big blue man (previously associated with America's defense, no less) who yelled at them to stop fighting, and threatened them with consequences. If they put it aside themselves (after whatever alien disaster befalls them), then the threat that they'll begin fighting again is more tangible, I think.

[Schwartz]

So the difference is between people actually hearing the words "Stop fighting!" vs. having nightmarish visions of imminent alien invasion broadcast directly into their heads and dreams. The difference in the level of coercion is minimal, I think.

[Doc Happenin]

The fake Manhattan thing, while I know could work (and probably work very well in the execution) still bothers me because, yes, Manhattan is superman, but he's more importantly 'America's' Superman. Even if he's threatening everyone and publicly 'left', everyone who isn't American is going to stop and wonder if this isn't some diabolically elaborate ruse on behalf of the Americans.

[halofan1]

If the death ray or fake Manhattan is true, Snyder has missed the point and raped Watchmen like Spielberg and Lucas did to Indy.

No wonder he sounded like a bumbling idiot at Comic Con

[Schwartz]

halofan, could you give me a brief explanation of the point of the space squid, and how fake Manhattan misses it?

[halofan1]

Like Doc said, you basically have everyone pissed off at the Americans because Manhattan was 'our superhero'. True, Manhattan tells Veidt 'it never ends' but the point of the squid was to have humanity, if briefly, come together to face something bigger than their wars.

[Schwartz]

The threat posed by Manhattan is something bigger. And the main points, imo, are that 1) it's a phony threat either way, and 2) it's potential to produce a positive result would be completely unraveled by seeking justice for its execution. The specific details are just that.

[joeypants]

Originally Posted by Schwartz

So the difference is between people actually hearing the words "Stop fighting!" vs. having nightmarish visions of imminent alien invasion broadcast directly into their heads and dreams. The difference in the level of coercion is minimal, I think.

Is the book that explicit about what the dreams/visions are though? I'll have to go back and look. I don't remember it specifically mentioning an alien invasion being imminent in the visions.

But, even if it is, yes, it's a far cry different than Manhattan saying it to people. He's an AMERICAN, and up until that point, and American force of restraint. If you don't see how thematically that is way, way different, then I don't know what more to say.

And again, my gripe with it is entirely based on: Why fuck with it that much? For me, it's not about "oh, it's an ok idea, and it COULD work." If you're going to mess with Alan Moore's original themes and vision, you really should have a very, very, very good reason for doing so. And, as of now (with my admittedly limited knowledge of what Snyder's actually up to) I just don't see it.

I'd be lying if this guy's history of doing things "because it's awesome, man!" didn't make me weary. I don't think he's given any of us a reason to fully trust his taste in those kind of decisions yet, based on his filmography.

[agracru]

Originally Posted by halofan1

If the death ray or fake Manhattan is true, Snyder has missed the point and raped Watchmen like Spielberg and Lucas did to Indy.

No wonder he sounded like a bumbling idiot at Comic Con

The threat posed to mankind being a colossal extraterrestrial squid isn't critical to the plot of the novel. Perhaps you could argue that it's crucial for commentary, but the story's climax isn't ruined by swapping out Squid for Fake Manhattan.

Respect to Doc for the "America's superhero" bit, though. I still don't think that that changes things but it's a solid argument.

[joeypants]

I think it's a valid argument either way. If you happen to like "fake Manhattan," I don't think it makes you an idiot or anything, and it doesn't make you wrong.

I also don't think those of us (like me) who don't really dig it are simply being whiny either.

If the rest of the film is awesome, and he does include "fake Manhattan" but it's pulled off well enough, I'm sure I'll still enjoy it immensely. I may still have that small gripe, but I'm not letting it destroy the whole experience.

[Schwartz]

I wasn't wild about fake Manhattan, and am still not sure it's the best route to take, but the first couple pages of argument in this thread (which everyone chiming in now should work their way through if they haven't; it's pretty great) convinced me that it's not a terrible idea. No worse than an interdimensional squid cloned from a psychic brain in a movie that will not have the time or context in the medium to explain its origins, anyway.

[stelios]

Originally Posted by Schwartz

No worse than an interdimensional squid cloned from a psychic brain in a movie that will not have the time or context in the medium to explain its origins, anyway.

That's the whole point. I may not be crazy about fake Manhattan but the giant psychic alien squid wouldn't work so well outside of the comic medium. Too much explaining.

[agracru]

Originally Posted by joeypants

I think it's a valid argument either way. If you happen to like "fake Manhattan," I don't think it makes you an idiot or anything, and it doesn't make you wrong.

It's not really a question of whether or not you like Fake Manhattan. Remember that we're talking about replacing a colossal extraterrestrial squid with the (fake) threat of a blue-hued demi-god. It's an (intentionally, I would argue) absurd device no matter how you dress it up.

I also don't think those of us (like me) who don't really dig it are simply being whiny either.

Well, I didn't say that, but since you brought it up, I'll just say this. Doc, on the one hand, is not being whiny, because he is able to intelligently articulate a legitimate concern regarding changing the squid to something else in the adaptation process. Halofan, on the other hand, is being whiny because he asserts that "Snyder has raped Watchmen", and later cannot defend this statement using his own logic.

[Schwartz]

Rape victims: big whiners, or the biggest whiners?

[agracru]

Biggest, if they're comic book fans.

[halofan1]

Originally Posted by agracru

Well, I didn't say that, but since you brought it up, I'll just say this. Doc, on the one hand, is not being whiny, because he is able to intelligently articulate a legitimate concern regarding changing the squid to something else in the adaptation process. Halofan, on the other hand, is being whiny because he asserts that "Snyder has raped Watchmen", and later cannot defend this statement using his own logic.

Um, didn't I state why? What's not logical about it, that I'm the only person here against a Watchmen movie?

[Schwartz]

Well, you didn't present an argument in your initial statement, just a whine about raping the book. And when pressed, you didn't do much to defend it.

Also, it seems from this and other threads that you're very quick to play the message board martyr card when challenged. We're all very impressed with your iconoclastic spirit and all, but being against the general consensus doesn't lend an argument any special weight.

[Francis Wolcott]

The fact that Manhattan is American can change some stuff if we deconstruct it to Derridabsurdity, but the world won't think "it's a trick by the Americans and we won't do it" after Manhattan has publicly VAPORIZED THE VIETCONG. In Watchmen's universe, the Soviet's didn't even dare going into Afghanistan until he left, it's not like they'll think "oh wow, an American prank".
That only makes sense if you see the world in current anti-American terms, which misses again the point in having the story in the 80s.

edit: Oh, and halofan1, assuming you are serious and are capable of comparing what happened in Indy with what it would be with a fake Manhattan ending, then clearly it's you who missed the entire point of the graphic novel, you have no idea what the actual themes of Watchmen are and should anyone ever do something like Veidt's plan, it should be extremely selective and only vaporize people like you, so that at least you served some purpose.
Indy-raping Watchmen would be having them kill Veidt, Manhattan make the Antarctica bloom like a garden so the last shots are filled with squirrels and rainbows and end with Rorschach and Dan high-fiving Venture Brothers style, though that ending would be awesome and more of a subversive fuck you than Watchmen ever was.

[agracru]

Originally Posted by halofan1

Um, didn't I state why? What's not logical about it, that I'm the only person here against a Watchmen movie?

You made a bullshit argument about Snyder fucking the movie up, and then echoed the words of someone much, much smarter when you got called on it. There's really not much point in saying anything more since Schwartz and Francis both pretty much nailed it.

[Wolfie]

Originally Posted by Richard Dickson

I wonder if the squid was excised due to them most likely dropping all the bits with the artists and scientists creating it. Because Veidt has to get the squid from somewhere, and without that build-up, him just saying "Oh, I had this genetically engineered" at the end might ring a little hollow. So they go with a cataclysmic power that we'll see throughout the film, therefore requiring no extra set-up.

It was probably excised because it was retarded, and the film-makers didn't want a modern audience, familiar with advances in genetic manipulation, to go "Aww, come on", because they know a giant dead squid would be immediately sampled, analyzed and it's genetic material immediately identified as of terrestrial, manufactured, origin, and Ozymandias's plot to unite the world against an ALIEN menace would fail. Maybe the world would unite temporarily to destroy Ozymandias, but then they'd squabble over his transportation technology and a new Arms Race would ensue.

[joeypants]

What about the fact that Manhattan is a being who can have multiple versions of himself doing different things at one time? Wouldn't that confuse the audience when he appears out of a cloud (while also on Mars) and reprimands the whole world, but then "oh, that's not really him, THAT'S Adrian playing puppeteer."

I mean sure, there are ways they could explain this to try to clear up that confusion and spell out that it was Adrian, but again: why fuck with something that much? It wasn't "broke" to that degree in the first place, and it's a crucial point of the story. I just don't see how it'd be a good idea to do this.

[Schwartz]

Adrian explains fake Manhattan plan, cut to fake Manhattan speech.

And Wolfie, the point is waaaay the fuck over there.

[halofan1]

Originally Posted by Francis Wolcott

The fact that Manhattan is American can change some stuff if we deconstruct it to Derridabsurdity, but the world won't think "it's a trick by the Americans and we won't do it" after Manhattan has publicly VAPORIZED THE VIETCONG. In Watchmen's universe, the Soviet's didn't even dare going into Afghanistan until he left, it's not like they'll think "oh wow, an American prank".
That only makes sense if you see the world in current anti-American terms, which misses again the point in having the story in the 80s.

edit: Oh, and halofan1, assuming you are serious and are capable of comparing what happened in Indy with what it would be with a fake Manhattan ending, then clearly it's you who missed the entire point of the graphic novel, you have no idea what the actual themes of Watchmen are and should anyone ever do something like Veidt's plan, it should be extremely selective and only vaporize people like you, so that at least you served some purpose.
Indy-raping Watchmen would be having them kill Veidt, Manhattan make the Antarctica bloom like a garden so the last shots are filled with squirrels and rainbows and end with Rorschach and Dan high-fiving Venture Brothers style, though that ending would be awesome and more of a subversive fuck you than Watchmen ever was.

You deserve to fall in a pool of AIDS and die a slow, horrible death. Go fuck yourself.

Believe me boy, I understand that book inside and out. I've read it countless times since I was first introduced to it. Directors like Guillermo del Toro turned this down because they didn't think it was possible to work in a 2-plus hour film, and I agree that it would only work as a miniseries on HBO. So pardon the fuck out of me if I'm concerned when Zack Snyder comes along, who has yet to prove he can make something that has character and theme, to tackle this. Yes, he nailed the visual look and I AGREE with making Black Freighter it's own thing. However, the visuals will only take you so far (see: 300.)

In addition, listening to the man speak at Comic Con to the fans with every other word being "Look...um...ramble ramble vaguely answer question," doesn't give me much hope particularly when someone has to yell at the man "SPIT IT OUT!" He wasn't the overly confident director he's presenting himself to be to the press when he was put in front of the fans.

As for the squid vs. Fake Manhattan, well I had read that the squid stayed and the only thing different is that Rorschach, Laurie and Dan fight Veidt and the servants aren't killed. Even if it is the fake Manhattan, why? It didn't need to be fixed to begin with (nothing in that book does.) If anything, a fake Manhattan sounds stupider than a Squid taking everyone out.