A SERIOUS MAN Post Release

[RCA]

I think during a lot of the movie Larry is presented with choices, but never quite makes any definitive decisions, he's just kind of wandering around getting "affected" by people but never actually choosing a side. In comparison to the begginning with the dybbuk, he is more like the husband who wants to be kind to the visitor, where his wife just stabs him immediately, without remorse, cause it's the right thing to do. I think Larry is being courted by the Devil, the entire movie, but it isn't until he changes the grade that he effectively chooses a side, and that side is, generally speaking, evil. The quickness with which he gets the call after he changes the grade is hilarious but also shows how swift judgement will come once he makes an actual choice. Up until then he stays pretty neutral, and while he does show kindness, which is a positive trait, evil cannot always be treated with kindness and evil people know how to play off weakness and it ultimately drags him under.

I think the way each visit to the rabbi's becomes increasingly futile, just shows that no one is going to make decisions for him, and that's why the story with the teeth has no point, because there is no story or advice that is going to solve his problems, he has to act on them and face the consequences.

To be honest, I am confused by a lot of the movie and don't fully understand a lot of it, but this is the general feeling I left with at least in regards to Larry.

[agracru]

Originally Posted by Schwartz

I thought the point was that "not doing anything" may or may not be the right course of action, but it is a course of action. Or at least, it might as well be for all God/the universe cares, and will not protect from the slings and arrows and so forth.

Thinking about it I do agree with this; it doesn't seem like it matters to the universe or Hashem if you do something right, do something wrong, or do nothing at all.

I've actually been thinking about how much this film is also quietly about Jewish identity. It's a less central theme perhaps, but there are definitely some thoughts about what it means to be a Jew living in the US in the 1960's (in the Midwest, no less), and how Jews in America had to eschew past identities and craft new ones (e.g. the daughter wants a nose job). It didn't really occur to me until long after seeing the movie but it's certainly there.

[Mike Dexter]

think during a lot of the movie Larry is presented with choices, but never quite makes any definitive decisions, he's just kind of wandering around getting "affected" by people but never actually choosing a side. In comparison to the begginning with the dybbuk, he is more like the husband who wants to be kind to the visitor, where his wife just stabs him immediately, without remorse, cause it's the right thing to do. I think Larry is being courted by the Devil, the entire movie, but it isn't until he changes the grade that he effectively chooses a side, and that side is, generally speaking, evil. The quickness with which he gets the call after he changes the grade is hilarious but also shows how swift judgement will come once he makes an actual choice. Up until then he stays pretty neutral, and while he does show kindness, which is a positive trait, evil cannot always be treated with kindness and evil people know how to play off weakness and it ultimately drags him under.

I think the way each visit to the rabbi's becomes increasingly futile, just shows that no one is going to make decisions for him, and that's why the story with the teeth has no point, because there is no story or advice that is going to solve his problems, he has to act on them and face the consequences.

To be honest, I am confused by a lot of the movie and don't fully understand a lot of it, but this is the general feeling I left with at least in regards to Larry.

This was almost my exact response to the movie.

[Schwartz]

I don't know if I buy that the movie is "quietly" about Jewish identity. It positively oozes pure, super-concentrated JEW from every frame.

[agracru]

Originally Posted by Schwartz

I don't know if I buy that the movie is "quietly" about Jewish identity. It positively oozes pure, super-concentrated JEW from every frame.

Well, yeah, it's a super Jewish movie all around; the comedy is very typical Jewish dark comedy. But the questions that it raises specifically about being Jewish, I think, are less at the forefront.

[JacknifeJohnny]

Gopnick paying for Sy's* funeral was the nail in the coffin for me in terms of my sympathy for the character. Never has a man so relentlessly teased total spiritual devastation. I had an incredible time with this, it's up there in the Coen canon, and I have to somewhat disagree with Faraci's assessment that it's less obvious a home run that NCFOM or BAR, this topples the latter and at least (in my mind) stands neck-to-neck with the former.


*It's been a long time since I've wanted to see a character killed so, so badly as Fred Melamed's Sy Ableman; Christ, smarmy doesn't even begin to describe this awful fucking guy. Like Larry, I just sat frozen, staring in utter disbelief. I usually don't care for calling out this sort of thing, but I'd like to see Melamed in contention for a Best Supporting Actor nod. If William Hurt can somehow fill that space for AHOV, there's no reason Melamed shouldn't.

[bendrix]

Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny

Gopnick paying for Sy's* funeral was the nail in the coffin for me in terms of my sympathy for the character. Never has a man so relentlessly teased total spiritual devastation. I had an incredible time with this, it's up there in the Coen canon, and I have to somewhat disagree with Faraci's assessment that it's less obvious a home run that NCFOM or BAR, this topples the latter and at least (in my mind) stands neck-to-neck with the former.


*It's been a long time since I've wanted to see a character killed so, so badly as Fred Melamed's Sy Ableman; Christ, smarmy doesn't even begin to describe this awful fucking guy. Like Larry, I just sat frozen, staring in utter disbelief. I usually don't care for calling out this sort of thing, but I'd like to see Melamed in contention for a Best Supporting Actor nod. If William Hurt can somehow fill that space for AHOV, there's no reason Melamed shouldn't.

Where the hell have you been? Good to see you.

Not that I'm attuned to such things, but I haven't heard any Oscar buzz for this at all. I'm with you on Melamed, only if Gopnik gets a nod too. He had to play straight man to every single character in the movie while still eliciting sympathy. With all the exasperation he had to bear, it would have been all to easy for his performance to have turned the film into an all-out farce.

[agracru]

Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny

Gopnick paying for Sy's* funeral was the nail in the coffin for me in terms of my sympathy for the character. Never has a man so relentlessly teased total spiritual devastation. I had an incredible time with this, it's up there in the Coen canon, and I have to somewhat disagree with Faraci's assessment that it's less obvious a home run that NCFOM or BAR, this topples the latter and at least (in my mind) stands neck-to-neck with the former.


*It's been a long time since I've wanted to see a character killed so, so badly as Fred Melamed's Sy Ableman; Christ, smarmy doesn't even begin to describe this awful fucking guy. Like Larry, I just sat frozen, staring in utter disbelief. I usually don't care for calling out this sort of thing, but I'd like to see Melamed in contention for a Best Supporting Actor nod. If William Hurt can somehow fill that space for AHOV, there's no reason Melamed shouldn't.

Totally agree about Abelman; Sy is so pompous that it hurts, and so grandiloquent that I wanted to throttle him. Melamed played him so, so well. What a gloriously two-faced backstabber. Even when feigning sympathy for Larry the most that undercurrent of contempt is palpable. I'm not one for calling out Oscar nods either but Fred's work here is award-worthy. Since we're talking about Oscars, what about Stuhlbarg? His is my favorite male lead performance all year, just about.

And I think that A Serious Man easily stands above Burn After Reading; for me the choice between NCFOM and this film is an easy one. And I love both of those movies: A Serious Man is just that good, for me anyways.

[Wolff]

I think A Serious Man stands in the same placing as NCFOM in that it at least seems like there isn't a single shot wasted. Not to downplay the beauty of Burn but there is some sense in that film of fluff where as NCFOM doesn't waste a second of storytelling. Simply in terms of the same kind of confidence A Simple Man has this aura to it that it knows what it's doing, if you know what I mean.

That being said, I think the "message" of the film is "accept the mystery" that dauntingly simple.

That being said, what flusters me most about the film the one element that I truly don't know if I'll ever understand is the importance to the end of the dentist's story. When Gopnik asks "What happened to the goyim?" and the 2nd rabbi responds, "Who care?" I mean, the whole dentist story is about the goyim having a message written in his teeth along the lines of "save me" or "help me" but then moves on to be a story just about the dentist's search for meaning... I mean the goyim we're not supposed to care about has "save me!" written on his teeth! I dunno, maybe it's just me but this scene the message of that story, the whole thing plays much stronger then a joke to end the segment.

[Atomic Ross]

Originally Posted by Wolff

I think A Serious Man stands in the same placing as NCFOM in that it at least seems like there isn't a single shot wasted. Not to downplay the beauty of Burn but there is some sense in that film of fluff where as NCFOM doesn't waste a second of storytelling. Simply in terms of the same kind of confidence A Simple Man has this aura to it that it knows what it's doing, if you know what I mean.

That being said, I think the "message" of the film is "accept the mystery" that dauntingly simple.

That being said, what flusters me most about the film the one element that I truly don't know if I'll ever understand is the importance to the end of the dentist's story. When Gopnik asks "What happened to the goyim?" and the 2nd rabbi responds, "Who care?" I mean, the whole dentist story is about the goyim having a message written in his teeth along the lines of "save me" or "help me" but then moves on to be a story just about the dentist's search for meaning... I mean the goyim we're not supposed to care about has "save me!" written on his teeth! I dunno, maybe it's just me but this scene the message of that story, the whole thing plays much stronger then a joke to end the segment.

What I took from the story about the Goy's teeth was that even in the face of the inexplicable and improbable, looking for meaning (especially divine meaning) is no more or less your responsibility than not finding hidden messages at all.

I think it's fairly inarguable that the throughline of the film was the maddening nature of Uncertainty, especially in the lives of the very religious. Why was the dentist looking for an answer to the Goy's teeth? Was a question ever asked? Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. Why was Larry going to see the Rabbis? They provided no more definitive answers than he had already surmised on his own, but he wanted certainty in a world that could not provide any.

[The Prankster]

It also seemed like a swipe at a certain Jewish mindset that says "If they're not Jewish, fuck 'em."

[agracru]

I kind of picked up on that, too.

[Tim Long]

I've had a couple of days to think about this movie, and it might be my favorite film this year. Absolutely everything worked for me, and I don't know if the Coens have done a better job of balancing humor and humanity their entire career. And I'll echo the Melamed love, as he is absolutely awesome in this. The Coens have put together a pretty brilliant run these last three films, and they all kind of work as some incredibly bleak trilogy.

[Diva]

Originally Posted by slop101

I'm gonna go ahead and say that the underlying theme of this movie is "shit happens".

This was what I came away from it, but after reading this thread I have a whole lot more to think about.