Clear Eyes, Full Hearts, Can't Lose! FNL S4

[Subotai]

About time. 13 episodes on DirectTV, starting tomorrow (10/28) to be shown later in the 2010 on NBC. Fuck the Emmys, fuck the haters - we got our 5 seasons.

Last season, we saw Smash and Street leave – and Tyra’s killing Chinese commandos in Oklahoma or somesuch most of this season while Lyla's at Vanderbilt. But Saracen and Riggins are back – Riggins, maybe for one more season before heading off to Mars. And the new cast members appear to be well chosen, especially Michael Jordan (seriously looking much bigger than Wallace on The Wire).

Another thing – it’s a sure bet we’ll be seeing more actual Texans in the cast, as along with the DirectTV deal, a large percentage of the cast have to home-grown actors. FYI, That’s a good thing – without that, we wouldn’t have Buddy Garrity, Landry, Mac, heck, even Guy (“You forgot to feed the ferrets…”) Rastin. It’ll be an interesting season – Peter Berg is more involved than ever since season one, while Jason Katims is pulling double-duty on Parenthood. But early reviews of the first couple of S4 episodes have been excellent.

I was surprised in a recent thread on the main forum how many people, after 3 quality seasons (2 of them truly sublime), continue to write this show off, ostensibly because of its location and subject matter. Even Nick (Boo!!), despite the fact this is maybe one of the few shows to give Glenn Morshower some actual acting time. But CHUD ain’t one of the best sites for nutin’, and I’m glad FNL has had its serious share of love among CHUD vets.

[RathBandu]

http://www.chud.com/forum/showthread.php?t=119352

My gut tells me that they'll try to keep Riggins for as long as the show goes, or as long as Kitsch's contract is for, as he's the closest thing the show has to a young breakout star.

[Subotai]

I was listening to Bill Simmons' podcast the other day, interviewing Peter Berg, and he's a big fan - he said pretty much the same, but also that Kitsch wouldn't have a problem with staying. As I understand it, they're filming seasons 4&5 back-to-back, so it would only be a few more months' obligation on Kitsch's part anyhow. And Riggins has been revealed as the soul of the show, more than Street or Saracen, heck, more than Coach Taylor. As good as FNL has been at departures, when Riggins leaves, a little part of the show will die.

[Farsight]

Wait... it's been renewed for season 5 as well? Seriously? Nice. I'm not sure how that works out for DirecTV / NBC, but who cares, I'll take a good show any way I can get it.

[Cameron Hughes]

Originally Posted by Subotai

I was listening to Bill Simmons' podcast the other day, interviewing Peter Berg, and he's a big fan - he said pretty much the same, but also that Kitsch wouldn't have a problem with staying. As I understand it, they're filming seasons 4&5 back-to-back, so it would only be a few more months' obligation on Kitsch's part anyhow. And Riggins has been revealed as the soul of the show, more than Street or Saracen, heck, more than Coach Taylor. As good as FNL has been at departures, when Riggins leaves, a little part of the show will die.

Really? I always thought Saracen was the heart of the show, often with the more heart-breaking moments.

[Schwartz]

Originally Posted by Cameron Hughes

Really? I always thought Saracen was the heart of the show, often with the more heart-breaking moments.

Yeah, I don't disagree that Riggins got better, in character and performance, as the show went on, but the heart of the show is either Saracen or the Taylors (I suppose you could cheat and call Matt as surrogate Taylor).

Here's hoping for a soulful, murder-free 4th season!

...which I won't see for 10 months or some shit. Sigh.

[RathBandu]

I remember reading a Television Without Pity review that said Saracen's future is to become Coach, whereas Tyra's future is to become Tami. I definitely think that they've shifted the focus on that slightly to Riggins through the course of the show. The analogy that I always use is that Riggins/Kitsch are basically Doug Ross/Clooney on ER.

[Cameron Hughes]

Originally Posted by RathBandu

I remember reading a Television Without Pity review that said Saracen's future is to become Coach, whereas Tyra's future is to become Tami. I definitely think that they've shifted the focus on that slightly to Riggins through the course of the show. The analogy that I always use is that Riggins/Kitsch are basically Doug Ross/Clooney on ER.

One of my favorite moments of season 3 was when Julie was nagging Eric about Matt becoming wide receiver and Matt was trying to quiet her down. Eric got this look of horror on his face as he realized that Matt and Julie were the younger versions of him and Tami.

[Subotai]

Originally Posted by Cameron Hughes

One of my favorite moments of season 3 was when Julie was nagging Eric about Matt becoming wide receiver and Matt was trying to quiet her down. Eric got this look of horror on his face as he realized that Matt and Julie were the younger versions of him and Tami.

I didn't see it like that. CT is genuinely surprised that Julie has such a hold over Saracen. That's why he goes along with it.

[Subotai]

I'm a little torn on discussing this show since I know there's a lot of folks who love the hell out of it who can't watch it until 2010. But that was one hell of a first episode - without hyperbole, fantastic television. Chandler deserves Emmy gold, which he will never get.

[RathBandu]

Fantastic start to the season. With the new credits and everything, it almost feels like this is a new show, but because you need the last three seasons to set everything up, not so much.

Spoilers in black:

I love how everyone is starting behind the eight ball this year, and I love how Berg has brought back a much needed edge to the show, with a lot of the elements that fell to the side during seasons two and three (for example, the casual racism in a town like Dillon. Coach's blow-up in the locker room was a great example of that, with his ranting against jewelry and necklaces just skirting that line). The West/East Dillon merger really seems to be affecting the town in some nasty ways, on both racial and class lines. I'm really excited how Coach deals with the fact that he's living in the "good" part of Dillon while coaching kids that are of a different race and income level than he is.

I adore how the show turned itself on its head in those final scenes, because we're conditioned at this point to expect Coach to give them a big rousing speech (one of the best in the series, no less) and the underdogs to win. And half of that happens, and it's great, but it's quickly brought down to earth by the heartbreaking scene of Coach inspecting his players and having to forfit the game.

A lot of the feedback I've been reading has people annoyed by J.D.'s so-called heel turn. I don't totally see that, because I can buy why it happened. Coach was pretty much the only thing in that kid's life keeping him grounded, and now he's in a place where his father runs the team, his coach has him in every game, and he's treated like a superstar. You couple that with the fact that Mr. McCoy has probably eased up a little bit post-the events of season three (no way S3 Joe lets his son be out that late at a party like the one we saw him at), and it's going to go to his head a bit. If anything, I was more annoyed by the fact that they don't even seem to be trying to make Joe anything other than the Big Bad (his devilish laugh when the Parents' meeting was a deal-sealer for me) and the fact that Julie's decision to go to East Dillon came kind of out of left field. Dig that Devin is back, by the way, and I was really surprised that Lyla and Tyra had been written off completely -- I thought we'd get at least an episode or two send off for them like we did the other of the originals who've departed, but it looks like they're going that route with Saracen.

Fantastic, heartbreaking episode.

[Subotai]

I agree with pretty much everything Rath said, and I'll throw in the following:


-I'm not sure JD is irredeemable. A kid like that is prone to follow his old man, but I don't completely buy he's as much of a prick as he seems - more immature and out to prove something. Janine Turner is no longer listed in FNL credits, which may mean Mom has split for less abusive pastures.
-I can't believe Mac didn't come over with Crowley, after Coach saved his ass in the first season. But my bet is he'll have had enough of Aikman and McCoy after they run up the score against some helpless team. the way Buddy was jogging after them in the cart, I don't doubt it'll be too long before something breaks there as well.
-That cop in the first scene plays for the Raiders, have no clue how to spell his name, though.
-I loved how the Coach wanted to get a VCR from the early 90s repaired.
-That volunteer coach is terrific, he may suffer from a mild case of Tourettes, but he is gold.
-On a less serious note, the red uniforms are starting to work for me. Those Dillon uniforms were just terrific, but the blunt old-school colours are much more appropriate and meaningful here.



BTW, in terms of thinking that Rigginsis the heart of the show, a large part of that stems from the fact that, going back to #1.1, he's pretty clear it's his job to stay in Dillon and remind people where they're from, the keeper of the flame, more or less. Pretty much everyone else is, ultimately, fated to leave Dillon - Saracen to Chicago, Lyla to the Ivy League, Smash to the Pros, Street to the Big Apple, etc. Even Eric and Tami; they're not truly happy in Dillon. After Julie hits University I imagine they'd be much happier someplace like Austin, with Coach taking another crack at NCAA ball. Their lives will all take them onwards and upwards, but Riggins will always be in Dillon, content, taking people for who they are, and expecting the same.

[Subotai]

And also in regards to Tyra and Lyla, on the Bill Simmons show the other day Peter Berg said Tyra's commitment to killing the Chinese in Michigan made her unavailable for shooting at the get-go. As for Minka Kelly, not sure. Probably to busy cheering on Jeets in NY. But I did read a rumour.... they will return to Dillon mid- or late-season for a sad occasion:frown: (PM me for semi-legit spoilers).

[RathBandu]

More spoilers:


That was a VCR? I thought it was a computer.

I mentioned this in the S3 thread, but there's a deleted scene on the DVD from the finale where Buddy talks about "the well being tainted" and suggesting to Eric that he help found the East Dillon Boosters. I can definitely see that happening, especially since Buddy doesn't have anything but football in Dillon now that Lyla and his wife are gone.

[mediumdave]

I think it was a beta deck.

Helluva good episode. The feeling you get from some of the best moments on the show you don't get anywhere else.

[heLL pAso]

Nnamdi Asomugha is the best Raiders actor since Carl Weathers. Yes, even better than Howie Long! Now that's sayin' something...

Good start to the season. As for discussing the episodes, fuck blacking out "spoilers". It's pretty obvious for the people who don't have DTV, or won't download the episodes, that they shouldn't come in to an ongoing discussion about a show that's currently airing, that they're not watching.

As for Tyra and Lyla SPOILERS Rath, I don't why you think Lyla and Tyra have been written off, with no closing arc, because they weren't mentioned in the first episode. It wasn't like Street appeared in the first four or five episodes last season. Adrianne Palicki is shooting an episode sometime in the next month. She was interviewed a month or so ago (before she signed up for this one episode she'll be appearing in) where she mentioned FNL may be shooting S4 & 5 back-to-back, and from the sounds of it she was basically saying they were trying to work things out to get here back later in the season/early in S5. Obviously a block in her schedule opened up. I really hope they don't shoot the seasons back-to-back. It would be like one long season and it'll probably ruin the quality of the show. As for Minka Kelly, I heard long ago she'd be back for two or three episodes.

[Bitches Leave]

I gotta say I love the dude who play Riggins, love his voice and charisma. I see a bright future for him in movies!

[Cameron Hughes]

Prediction: JD is gonna mess up in a game and the Panthers lose(Though it probably won't be his fault or for lack of trying) and suddenly Papa McCoy will smack his golden boy and JD will run to Coach Taylor, the only adult male that was ever kind to him, kinda like how Saracen finally broke down from the pressure in his life in the locker room in season 2.

[Farsight]

My prediction: JD will stay a douche the entire season, and East Dillon's only victory of the year will be in their final game against Dillon to deny them a shot at the state championship.

And even if it is clichéd, I'd have to cheer that.

[Subotai]

Yeah, it would be cliched, and it seems unlikely a re-booting team would play a powerhouse like Dillon. But you never know...

[Farsight]

It's actually pretty common for cross-town schools to end their seasons by playing each other. And high schools and colleges love to schedule cupcakes to pad their records.

From a dramatic standpoint, I'd be stunned if they don't play each other.

[whiskaz]

Originally Posted by RathBandu

(for example, the casual racism in a town like Dillon. Coach's blow-up in the locker room was a great example of that, with his ranting against jewelry and necklaces just skirting that line).

Unspoilered because it's not really a spoiler... but yea, then he yells at the other kid...to which my wife says... "What did he do??"

[Subotai]

If it was another Coach in another context I might be wary of racism as well...But Coach had asked players several times to remove necklaces during the weigh-in. More importantly, he was pouring the heat on where it was most needed, on the weakest links on the team. It's like Heartbreak Ridge...Gotta break 'em down before you can build 'em up.

BTW, some helpful soul is posting episodes on a certain website that begins with Y and they're not being pulled down, apparently.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJx8Z...eature=related

[RathBandu]

Yeah, I see that, but with all the pressure in Dillon and on Coach, it makes sense that he, too, might be feeling some of the resentment in the meeting about East Dillon himself. And it makes sense that Berg would bring some of that stuff back, especially if he's involved more this season like he was the first year. There's a scene from the pilot that never got followed up on where you get the idea that Riggins is a bit racist, too.

[Subotai]

Preview for next episode:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBjGbEmfKRk

[RathBandu]

So I was watching my other big teen soap today, Gossip Girl. Yes, I know. I'll pause and wait while you judge me.

Anyway, show had a reference to a minor character attending Arnett Mead, which we all know are the Panthers big rival. Turns out that there is no actual place in Texas named that (which I thought when they named checked it), which means that GG and FNL take place in the same universe. Or, you know, Josh Schwartz is a fan.

[heLL pAso]

So when is my favorite booster going to jump ship?

[Subotai]

Another A+ episode. John Diehl showing up in his underwear. Texas Tech coach Mike Leach gold as a space cadet at a gas station. Tami representing. Kyle Chandler making another strong case for Emmy gold.

Fucking Tim Riggins.

[Subotai]

And Matt Lauria looks to be terrific. Another great bit of casting.

[Will Kane]

Alicia Witt as the bartender/hot mom makes me feel old.

[Will Kane]

This was another great episode.

- Loved Tammy standing up to Joe McCoy and giving him the middle finger re: investigating the past. Bringing the boosters into it was a smart move.

- It's only a matter of time before Buddy Garrity starts the East Dillon boosters

- The kid playing Lance was great. I genuinely felt bad for him when he was talking to Tammy on the sidelines. You knew that being a Panther meant everything in the world to him and he didn't act like a prick about it---apologizing to her afterwards showed that he's a good kid when push comes to shove.

- Tim Riggins involved in the East Dillon program? Fucking PERFECT. They need to keep that character around and that's a great way to do it. When season 3 ended, I thought Saracen would be the guy helping out at East Dillon, but when you realize that the show needs to hang onto Taylor Kitsch as if he's a life preserver, it makes sense to get him over there. And Tim being an assistant coach fits well with his character. He really only knows one thing in life--football--so passing on that knowledge is what works well for him.

- Steve Harris as a potential regular??? Wow, gotta love it!

- Kinda eager to see what John Diehl brings to the table as the eccentric artist. If he can help Matt look inside himself and realize his potential as an artist, great.

- Great job bringing the team back together, Coach Taylor.

- I'm thinking that one of the kids on East Dillon plays Michael Oher in THE BLIND SIDE. Not sure because I can't find a definite list of who is whom on IMDB.

[Tim Long]

Maybe it's because Coach Taylor is my favorite character, but this season is hitting all the right notes for me.

Like Rath said earlier, I love that the subject of race is being brought back to the forefront, and I like the way it was set up for Vince to confront Coach Taylor on it at some point in the season. I also like that the show has a clear antagonist during this season. In the past the show has portrayed some of its least likable characters as redeemable, and it feels refreshing to have someone to cheer against.

The third episode is definitely the weakest of the season so far though. The Lions scoring their first TD, and the Buddy Garrity storylines both felt a little bit rushed, and I would like to see a little more from the Panther side of the fence. But, "The Saracen" and Riggins storylines continue to be spot-on, and I'm really warming to all the new actors on the show. Great start to the new season.

[Subotai]

Loved 4.3, Vince. vs. Coach is one of the best moments in the show's 3+ year history...It 's pretty clear they're pushing forward with exploring the racial tension of Dillon, something touched upon in S1 and S3.

New uniforms are excellent.

[whiskaz]

I don't mind product placement generally but the Under Armour bit felt forced... and also like the show and its future are in basically the same situation that Coach and the Lions are in.

Vince vs. Coach was awesome.

[Tim Long]

I'm torn on episode 4.4. In some ways it's pretty sloppy (Saracen stayed for Julie? The Panthers are struggling to make the playoffs?) but there are so many other things to like. The increased presence of Steve Harris, the Riggins/Saracen hunting trip, the reveal of Coach Traub, and that incredible sucker punch of an ending. There are very few shows I say this about; but, I wish this season was longer so it had a chance to breathe a little bit.