Crime Fiction Thread 2.0.

[RathBandu]

Your previous post suggested that Peace is automatically a better writer than Abbott because he is, to paraphrase, from the streets, that he is automatically better because he's lived the things he's writing about, rather than making them up or studying them.

I would argue that it's harder to convincingly write a character with whom you don't have a lot in common, and that Abbott has done so pretty damn well so far. One of the reasons Song is You is better than Queenpin in my humble is because it's very easy to see Abbott as the narrator of the novel, whereas Song is You is a character whom she has zero in common with -- and it's a brilliant character to boot. Song is You also is very, very period specific in a lot of ways that I admire, and the specificity, the familiarity, of a novel that takes place in the film industry in the 40s, albiet a one with fake characters alongside real ones, is something that I think make Abbott's creds as a professor and scholar worthwhile.

So it's a weird tack for you to take, and an unfair one. But let it be said that some of my favorite crime books, ones I have raved about in these very forums, come from that same place of writing what you know, being it old folks in Boca or porn stars on a roaring rampage of revenge.

I'm not bashing Peace. I think the guy's very good. I wish Red Riding 1983 would come out already. I just think that it's unfair to say his writing's automatically better because he lived it.

[Subotai]

Sorry, Rath, I didn't make myself clear. I'd take Peace without hesitation, absolutely. But really, it doesn't mean he's a better writer than Abbott, or anyone else for that matter. In terms of crime fiction, I might actually take Kent Anderson over Peace. On some intrinsic level, I strongly relate to the fierce qualities of Peace's writing, from his style and the idiosyncrasies of his writing to the subject matter he chooses (or chooses him). But ultimately, it’s taster’s choice.

I've reached a point of diminishing returns in arguing the merits of Peace’s writing, but among the writers I love, I notice there is a recurring theme of their life experience, to various degrees, impacting their work. Peace, Ellroy, Conrad, Willeford, Tolkien, Pynchon, Hemingway, Faulkner, Vonnegut. Talking other crime guys, Don Winslow, Chester Himes, Jim Thompson, Joe Gores, Hammett, Mosley, Block...It's not a hard-and-fast rule, there are ex-cops and crooks who can't write for shit and there is no substitute for talent, but when you have that synthesis of life experience and ability, I don't think you can match it.

[Judas Booth]

Originally Posted by Subotai

I've reached a point of diminishing returns in arguing the merits of Peace’s writing, but among the writers I love, I notice there is a recurring theme of their life experience, to various degrees, impacting their work. Peace, Ellroy, Conrad, Willeford, Tolkien, Pynchon, Hemingway, Faulkner, Vonnegut. Talking other crime guys, Don Winslow, Chester Himes, Jim Thompson, Joe Gores, Hammett, Mosley, Block...It's not a hard-and-fast rule, there are ex-cops and crooks who can't write for shit and there is no substitute for talent, but when you have that synthesis of life experience and ability, I don't think you can match it.

Personally, I'd add Andrew Vachss to that list. He has certainly seen and lived with the subject matter that he writes about.

[Subotai]

Absolutely. And Vachss has always spoken with a pretty unique voice. I read Vachss before I read Westlake, I remember reading Blue Belle on its release back when I was 13 maybe, and I remember being pretty shocked at reading a modern protagonist in crime fiction who had no problem killing cops, who was completely on the other side of society. Vachss' style became more mainstream after his first several novels, but always piercing criticism.