When to say enough is enough? (Or how I finally gave up on Rivers Cuomo)

[DaveB]

Originally Posted by HBarr

I thought Millette was Slater Jr. DaveB's Dre Jr. Right? Not sure who would be classified as Devin Jr.

I've been here way too long to be a "junior."

[HBarr]

Sorry Dad. Won't happen again.

[Van Read]

Originally Posted by Brad Millette

And while it's touching to know that I can inspire such lasting and deep-rooted grudges, I really have the shittiest Rogue's Gallery in the world here.

You have been a little too much "New Brad". The angry "Old Brad" seems like a distant memory. Maybe if you went back to "Old Brad", your Rogues would step it up a bit?

[The Rain Dog]

Originally Posted by Brad Millette

And while it's touching to know that I can inspire such lasting and deep-rooted grudges, I really have the shittiest Rogue's Gallery in the world here.

You're our very own Barry Allen.

[Timothy Q]

Originally Posted by Tomas Mejor

Coke and Pepsi are flavored quite differently..

Way to miss the point.

[DaveB]

Originally Posted by Timothy Q

Way to miss the point.

I think you might have missed his. If you can't tell the difference between old Weezer and new Weezer or Coke and Pepsi, it might just mean that your taste isn't quite as developed in a particular area.

Personally, I don't think it's worth my time to focus my energy in developing my taste in soft drinks (although I can tell the difference between Coke and Pepsi). I have friends who can go on at length about the seemingly insignificant differences between metal or jazz sub-genres that sound identical to my untrained ear.

In other words, if you can't hear a difference between old and new Weezer, that might say as much about you as it does about those who can.

[Timothy Q]

Originally Posted by DaveB

I think you might have missed his. If you can't tell the difference between old Weezer and new Weezer or Coke and Pepsi, it might just mean that your taste isn't quite as developed in a particular area.

I never claimed they were carbon copies of each other, just that they were similar enough that hating one and loving the other is a bit dramatic. So if you think the argument is whether there is a difference or not, you did in fact miss the point.

[Ray Abed]

Originally Posted by DaveB

I've only heard a selection of the singles, but I'd say that Fall Out Boy's actually put out far catchier and smarter pop than Weezer has in this decade.

Yep. Infinity on High and Folie a Deux are actually pretty solid albums if you allow yourself to let go of any preconceived notions you may have about the band. The songwriting is surprisingly consistent and focused...and damn catchy. Knowing your tastes DaveB, I think you'd really get into the majority of Folie a Deux. The arrangements are mostly unconventional and the songs themselves more clever than they have any right to be.

[DaveB]

Originally Posted by Timothy Q

I never claimed they were carbon copies of each other, just that they were similar enough that hating one and loving the other is a bit dramatic. So if you think the argument is whether there is a difference or not, you did in fact miss the point.

Your point is impossible to miss. It just relies on a flawed understanding of how taste and interpretation work. Your argument is that the difference might exist, but isn't big enough to matter qualitatively. This is clearly bullshit because the difference is big enough to matter to many of us.

This suggests that either your ears are not as attuned as ours to the differences or that an inexplicably large number of critics and fans have arbitrarily decided that the quality of Weezer's output has declined dramatically.

So while our reaction may seem like overstatement to you, I'd argue that yours indicates a lack of evaluative skills - or laziness - when it comes to this particular area of music.

[DaveB]

Originally Posted by Ray Abed

Yep. Infinity on High and Folie a Deux are actually pretty solid albums if you allow yourself to let go of any preconceived notions you may have about the band. The songwriting is surprisingly consistent and focused...and damn catchy. Knowing your tastes DaveB, I think you'd really get into the majority of Folie a Deux. The arrangements are mostly unconventional and the songs themselves more clever than they have any right to be.

This actually doesn't surprise me in the least. I'll probably give them a shot sometime (and may or may not admit to it afterward).

[Ray Abed]

It was hard for me to admit at first, like I was hiding an unfathomable secret or something. But now I'll gladly stick up for the band should the situation arise.

[Timothy Q]

Originally Posted by DaveB

Your point is impossible to miss. It just relies on a flawed understanding of how taste and interpretation work. Your argument is that the difference might exist, but isn't big enough to matter qualitatively. This is clearly bullshit because the difference is big enough to matter to many of us.

This suggests that either your ears are not as attuned as ours to the differences or that an inexplicably large number of critics and fans have arbitrarily decided that the quality of Weezer's output has declined dramatically.

So while our reaction may seem like overstatement to you, I'd argue that yours indicates a lack of evaluative skills - or laziness - when it comes to this particular area of music.

First: You're pretty pompous. You sound like a super villain.

Second: Maybe the "sound" just isn't in your wheelhouse anymore. It could also be that on a whole the sound is SO familiar that is has become mundane to many people and they have tuned it out. You see, there are plenty of reasons it may be unappealing and none necessarily have to do with a difference in quality from one disc to the next.

There is a good chance many of you folks that don't really enjoy the newer stuff may not have enjoyed the Blue Album if it came out today. I think the "difference" that causes the love/hate sway has more to do with the listener moving past the music and passage of time in relation to the release than actual quality.

But what do I know? I lack evaluative skills.

[DaveB]

Originally Posted by Timothy Q

First: You're pretty pompous. You sound like a super villain.

I'm not the one claiming that others missed his easy-to-grasp point.

Second: Maybe the "sound" just isn't in your wheelhouse anymore. It could also be that on a whole the sound is SO familiar that is has become mundane to many people and they have tuned it out. You see, there are plenty of reasons it may be unappealing and none necessarily have to do with a difference in quality from one disc to the next.

You could argue the same about the Stones or Aerosmith, but that doesn't mean someone else couldn't make a more compelling argument that they simply don't make music as good as the music they used to make.

There is a good chance many of you folks that don't really enjoy the newer stuff may not have enjoyed the Blue Album if it came out today. I think the "difference" that causes the love/hate sway has more to do with the listener moving past the music and passage of time in relation to the release than actual quality.

Maybe, but who cares? Context is important, no doubt. But just as it's not a particularly useful thought experiment to imagine a reality in which Oasis preceded the Beatles, it doesn't really pay to imagine an impossible reality in which the Blue Album came out now in the wake of plenty of guitar pop bands who couldn't possibly exist if the Blue Album hadn't come out when it did.

What I know - I still like listening to the Blue Album and Pinkerton, and it's not just a matter of nostalgia. If it were just a matter of nostalgia, I'd probably listen to Superunknown and Jar of Flies a shitload more, and I never listen to those albums.

And the Red Album is fucking awful, and it's not particularly similar to the Blue Album in terms of guitar pop. If nothing else, there are the non-Cuomo songs that demonstrate that as bad as his songwriting's deteriorated, he's still probably the best writer in the band, and the previously mentioned disaster of a song suite.

But what do I know? I lack evaluative skills.

Do you really have the right to get offended here? You called people's intelligence into question before I did.

[Brad Millette]

Originally Posted by Timothy Q

But what do I know? I lack evaluative skills.

Was that so difficult to admit?

[Timothy Q]

Oh Brad!

[Jake]

I'm laughing my ass off at the idea of Dave with a Snidely Whiplash-style villain mustache.

[Timothy Q]

I should actually respond to DaveB since he took the time.

Agree to disagree. I wasn't offended and I never questioned anyone's intelligence. I love you all.

... you do sound like a super villain though. I'm not backing off of that one.

[Ray Abed]

I guess it's time to reveal what the B in DaveB stands for: "Baddy." But to most of us at CHUD he's just a "Bad-Ass," and we wouldn't want it any other way.

[gravedigger]

I thought the B stood for "Bung".

/greybeard

[DaveB]

Originally Posted by gravedigger

I thought the B stood for "Bung".

/greybeard

About five of us probably get that reference.