Image United - Wow.

[Brad Millette]

None of the image artists, save maybe Larsen, are good character designers. Jim Lee especially is an awful designer. The WildCATS characters were all miserable and dull, and I've never quite understood why he doesn't get a lot of the same shit McFarlane and Liefeld did for being terrible.

[The LD]

Re: Kirkman - I loved Invincible through 8 volumes or so, then I gave it up for particular reason. But, everything else he touches turns to...meh. I actually find The Walking Dead basically unreadable.

[Brad Millette]

Well it IS basically unreadable.

And Invincible was okay, but it's such an obvious "riff" on classic Spider-Man with added hyperviolence that who cares?

[Orin_Quon]

Originally Posted by Brad Millette

Yeah, more or less.

I mean, we live in a world where people are excited about a big Image Comics crossover story featuring their super interesting stable of characters like Pouch Guy and Bigger Pouch Guy.

I'm terribly sorry for being excited about a big event featuring Savage Dragon drawn by his creator (and my favorite artist, Erik Larsen). If liking Savage Dragon means i'm not a very "discerning" individual, so be it.

I bought a lot of those books in the mid 90's and even thought i dropped them all on the first year (but Dragon), i still think it's cool to see them as a team.

I don't like photo-realism, tracing, attempts at making comics look like movies, making every panel "widescreen" for no reason, "dark" coloring or anything of the sort. I like flashy colors, foreshortened fists and the like. I also like the idea of having six people drawing on the same board, regardless of the difference in skill between them.

While i did drop Invincible and Walking Dead (and think Kirkman always loses steam fast), this is a six-issue mini and think he'll be able to tackle it just fine.

[Brad Millette]

Hey, don't let us stop you, but quit acting like thinking characters like WildCATS and Spawn are shit is some kind of elitist snobbery. It's just good fucking sense.

[Orin_Quon]

Originally Posted by Brad Millette

Hey, don't let us stop you, but quit acting like thinking characters like WildCATS and Spawn are shit is some kind of elitist snobbery. It's just good fucking sense.

I have no problem with people bashing the Jim Lee run of Wildcats, everything's Todd has written on Spawn and so on. But people still say everything is the same when everyone knows that's not how comics work. One day Iron-Man is the worst comic on the shelves then... it becomes awesome. Say you hated them in the 90's so you won't read this now, then move on.

I mean, how many comics are there where you can look at them on the 90's and make a reasonable judgement on how they are now? Usagi Yojimbo, Savage Dragon? Not a whole lot more.

But then again, where's the HAW HAW factor in being reasanoble, right? Let's just jump in, make fun of something, call people retards (like in the Haunt thread) at the same time getting snarky when someone call you an elitist.

[Brad Millette]

No matter how many underlined words or bolded phrases you throw out, a big crossover where all the Image characters fight Spawn is for retards.

[Zweit]

I'm confused as to how somebody could be called an elitist for thinking this comic was a goofy idea. We're not talking about treating poor people like shit, right? So where does elitism come from?

...

Anyway, a whole bunch of artists drawing each page is an incredibly shallow gimmick at best. It reminds me of a comic one of my friends told me about where McFarlane was brought in just so he could draw Batman's cape in that squiggly-pointy Spawn way.

[DanielRoffle]

Originally Posted by Orin_Quon

I have no problem with people bashing the Jim Lee run of Wildcats, everything's Todd has written on Spawn and so on. But people still say everything is the same when everyone knows that's not how comics work. One day Iron-Man is the worst comic on the shelves then... it becomes awesome. Say you hated them in the 90's so you won't read this now, then move on.

I mean, how many comics are there where you can look at them on the 90's and make a reasonable judgement on how they are now? Usagi Yojimbo, Savage Dragon? Not a whole lot more.

Ok, you have a point there, but at the same time, most DC and Marverl titles, though they may go through some bumps, have the advantage of having really strong visual and narrative conceps at their root; characters like Spider Man or Batman will keep having new good runs in part because the original idea is so strong. Likewise, if the original concept is total crap, it'll be harder for anyone to give it a good spin, especially without going the total reboot or self-parody routes. Spawn is just lame no matter who's drawing him.

[lordelsey]

The only reason no one attacks Wildcats is everyone just pretends Jim Lee's run doesn't exist, like Stormwatch/Authority.

[Nabster]

"Erik Larsen, who I think has a really good sense of comics history, got to thinking about a project he had done back in the early Image days called "Savage Dragon/Megaton Man" where he and Megaton Man's Don Simpson got together and drew their own characters in the book. "

I have this book actually, from the old days obviously, when I was just a kid, and it was a terrible comic book. I remember it was a collectors edition, used to be worth some green, but I doubt that is the case anymore. Jim Lees run on the Authority was just terrible. I really have to strongly agree with Brad upon why Jim Lee and his style isn't given more shit, never understood how he maintained his god status.

[Orin_Quon]

Colored Jim Lee cover:

[Ali]

Terrible. 90's all over the fucking place.

[ryoken]

Originally Posted by Ali

Terrible. 90's all over the fucking place.

I dont know, i dont see any foil or chrome on that.
I still wonder if the Image founders are aware that the actual quality of their company's properties only took off when they stopped working on them or new creators joined and brought new, original stuff to the table ( I have a former Image fan swear that Ron Marz's Witchblade run has more plot and character development for the characters in içhis issue than everything that came before...which is about 80 issues!) .
I used to be pissed that someone stole my #1 issue of Spawn as a teen; now im actually thankful someone took that crap out of my house.

[Orin_Quon]

I dislike Jim Lee as much as the next guy, but there's nothing wrong technically in his style. If anything, his more skillfull than the average Marvel or DC artist.

It's as 90's as a current Blackest Night or Secret Invasion cover.

[Richard Dickson]

Yeah, if this was the 90s, there'd be four different variant covers each with a different hero front and center.

[Louris]

Originally Posted by Orin_Quon

I dislike Jim Lee as much as the next guy, but there's nothing wrong technically in his style. If anything, his more skillfull than the average Marvel or DC artist.

Yeah, Lee is a pretty great technical artist. However, I can't help but get the same vibe from his art I get from Michael Bolton's voice . . . yeah, technically it's pretty great, but there's something manufactured and soulless about it all.

[DanielRoffle]

Originally Posted by Louris

Yeah, Lee is a pretty great technical artist. However, I can't help but get the same vibe from his art I get from Michael Bolton's voice . . . yeah, technically it's pretty great, but there's something manufactured and soulless about it all.

I wouldn't even use those adjectives, for either example - I think it's more a case of someone having a very blunt (though honest) appreciation for the artform and passionately driving home its clichés without even noticing that there's subtleties they might be missing.

[Ali]

Originally Posted by ryoken

I dont know, i dont see any foil or chrome on that.

I should have been clearer. I'm talking about the terrible, terrible character designs. The aluminium stripper. The red eyed guy with black eyeshadow. The dude with the six pack glowing thing. Even, the prince of darkness rip-off is kind of hacky.

A bit of disclosure. I recognize the guy with the silver head thing. He was a black guy. A batman hero. Except he had aids. This is a character.

[ryoken]

Originally Posted by Ali

I should have been clearer. I'm talking about the terrible, terrible character designs. The aluminium stripper. The red eyed guy with black eyeshadow. The dude with the six pack glowing thing. Even, the prince of darkness rip-off is kind of hacky.

A bit of disclosure. I recognize the guy with the silver head thing. He was a black guy. A batman hero. Except he had aids. This is a character.

But, but The Savage Dragon is just like The hulk, only eh's green 24/7! And he works as a cop and acts just like a regular joe!
Horrible character designs, most 90's creations only took off as characters when writers invested on them; Deadpool is the posterboy for "90's/Liefeld were good", but the character only became unique/fun when it was in other people's hands...I still crack up when reading how Fabian Nicieza called Liefeld on the character design being a rip-off of Deathstroke withing a second of seeing it for the first time.
I'm going to quote Randy "The Ram" here..."90's sucked!"