Politics of Smoking

[Ryan S~]

Originally Posted by Boomstick

Um... thank you.

I actually have no problem with the disagreement, and I understand most everyone's argument here.... I just don't understand Lisa's attacks on me.

My apologies. I kinda talked around you there, didn't I?

[Princess Kate]

Originally Posted by joeypants

Yes. Yes I can. They look silly. They all, every last smoking movie star, look like a silly asshole holding some strange, flammable accessory that's killing them, all because it's makes them stink so nice and not want another strange little accessory for another 30 min. to an hour.

Seriously, it's so odd. You don't get stoned or anything. You get a buzz the first few times you do it, and after that the only feeling you get is relief from a nicotine addiction. And you have to fucking fight to break into the habit! They're gross at first, and you hack and cough until you're finally "man enough" to take down a whole pack inside of a few days.

Ah ok, well I guess we agree to disagree about the coolness (uncoolness?) of it then.

Also, I smoke so rarely I get a nicotine buzz every time. I actually only smoke hand rolled or AS cigs because the buzz from a Marlboro is way too intense for me. It's a social thing though, and a great activity to share with friends. That's my opinion, anyway. I do agree that I'd rather be smoking other stuff, most of the time. Like, if I had a choice between sharing a joint outside a restaurant (were it possible ) or a cig, I'd rarely choose the later

[Ryan S~]

Originally Posted by Princess Kate

.... Why do I equal hate? I've been pretty polite with everyone, all things considered

Part of the problem in this thread, Kate, has been that you're argument comes down to "It's cool". It's the argument of the ill-informed or illogical. Which may be fine but you keep hammering on that point over and over and over.

[Princess Kate]

Originally Posted by HBarr

It's pretty obvious this has been a gang up on Kate thread. If you're not feeling the hate, then perhaps you need to re-tune your sensors as there is most definitely hate being directed your way (not by me).

Oh, no, I feel the hate. "Goddamned idiot" tends to make things pretty clear. However, when you said Kate=H8, I thought you were saying I was nothing but hateful. Lol. Now I get it

[Princess Kate]

Originally Posted by Ryan S~

Part of the problem in this thread, Kate, has been that you're argument comes down to "It's cool". It's the argument of the ill-informed or illogical. Which may be fine but you keep hammering on that point over and over and over.

Well, yes, that's my argument for smoking (that and it's a fun social activity). My argument against anti-smoking is much deeper, as I've laid out (Involving things like High Fructose Corn Syrup, ETC).

[Bucho]

Originally Posted by Princess Kate

We had kids get up and do anti-smoking skits in middleschool. Those people were either genuine in their message, and were then ridiculed afterwards, or did it all with a wink to the audience that basically said "I don't believe what I'm telling you".

I had to do a DARE skit in 6th grade, and act out what 'peer pressure' was like. The hysterically over the top rhetoric we'd heard lead me to have the class in stitches, as they cracked up at my act. I played someone whose method of peer pressure was to threaten physical harm unless someone tried pot. Everyone could tell the hype about peer pressure was so obviously exaggerated, that we couldn't help but find everything the DARE people had to say silly and unbelievable

Right, that's why I specified it has to be people who are already looked up to who deliver the message. You need musos or actors or sports heroes that the kids want to emulate to deliver the message straight, dorky skits will never cut it. It's the same with bullying, you need football stars and MMA fighters telling these young alpha males that bullying is cowardice, not teachers. The percieved status of the messenger is vital in these matters.

Originally Posted by Phil

Poe knew what was wrong with you.

Somehow he always does.

[Nicholas]

Bucho, twice today I've had to go to Google to catch your references (Maccas and musos). I didn't know what those meant hahaha.

And Kate, I'm curious, how old are you?

[Princess Kate]

Originally Posted by Nicholas

And Kate, I'm curious, how old are you?

Aged 23 years.

[Princess Kate]

Originally Posted by Bucho

Right, that's why I specified it has to be people who are already looked up to who deliver the message. You need musos or actors or sports heroes that the kids want to emulate to deliver the message straight, dorky skits will never cut it. It's the same with bullying, you need football stars and MMA fighters telling these young alpha males that bullying is cowardice, not teachers. The percieved status of the messenger is vital in these matters.




Somehow he always does.

Good point, Bucho.

[dreary louse]

An anti-nicotine vaccine has reached its final clinical trials:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/11/09...ine/index.html

Welp, it's a vaccine that even morons like Jenny McCarthy may endorse, further discrediting their dangerous anti-vaccine sloganeering. Unless - the position changes to "Vaccines - OK, but for adults", but then we'll try to convince them their toddlers may pick up the habit when they're watching Humphrey Bogart movies before naptime.

[Chavez]

Originally Posted by FrankCobretti

Has anyone actually done the math? I always wonder that when people assert that "X costs us Y billions per year."

Well, I'd think that most people who DO smoke would be conscious of the need to be on the lookout for lung cancer.

So assuming they catch it, it's surgery, chemo/radiation, with probably a decent chance of survival; y'know, until it comes back again and again.

I don't know the cost. I'm thinking that as cost of treatment versus, say, some guy not wearing a helmet busting his skull open on blacktop it's much more costly.

[dreary louse]

It's a time/odds/fool's game. Smoking is OK...for a while. But so many become addicted and smoke for decades. Like alcoholism, there isn't a way to tell who will become a Boomstick or not. Except people become heavily addicted to nicotine more often.

[Cameron Hughes]

Originally Posted by Princess Kate

Aged 23 years.

Yet you think like a 13 year old

"Smoking is cool." is so moronic on so many levels.

[Cameron Hughes]

Why do (some) smokers talk about their rights like they're a black person in the Jim Crow era?

[Martin Savage]

I'm waiting for Princess Kate to say that Alexander the Great smoked too.

[Fat Elvis]

JFK did.

[Cameron Hughes]

Originally Posted by Martin Savage

I'm waiting for Princess Kate to say that Alexander the Great smoked too.

Obama does! That makes it cool!

[Fat Elvis]

You're obviously not an Obama-merican

[Bucho]

Originally Posted by Nicholas

Bucho, twice today I've had to go to Google to catch your references (Maccas and musos). I didn't know what those meant hahaha.

Oh yeah, sorry man, I guess they're not widely known. Maccas might be only used in Aus and NZ for McDonalds and maybe only musicians use the word muso? I don't know, but I'll try and sound less like I'm slipping portuguese into my posts.

[Hundred]

Originally Posted by Princess Kate

It's a social thing though, and a great activity to share with friends.

Cool, you can get buried next to each other.

[Cylon Baby]

Originally Posted by Princess Kate

Well, yes, that's my argument for smoking (that and it's a fun social activity). My argument against anti-smoking is much deeper, as I've laid out (Involving things like High Fructose Corn Syrup, ETC).

Oh sure that's how it starts Kate. But do you know how it ends? Do you?!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bM_vLk1I6G4

[Phil]

Did anyone ever see that PSA where the woman whose husband fell asleep in bed with a cigarette was holding a pic of herself in front of her head, and she took it down at the end and was all burned to fuck? Been looking for this ad for years.

[Nicholas]

Originally Posted by Bucho

Oh yeah, sorry man, I guess they're not widely known. Maccas might be only used in Aus and NZ for McDonalds and maybe only musicians use the word muso? I don't know, but I'll try and sound less like I'm slipping portuguese into my posts.

Oh dude, don't even worry about it. It's no problem and now knowing what Maccas means makes me feel a bit more worldly.

[FrankCobretti]

Originally Posted by Chavez

Well, I'd think that most people who DO smoke would be conscious of the need to be on the lookout for lung cancer.

So assuming they catch it, it's surgery, chemo/radiation, with probably a decent chance of survival; y'know, until it comes back again and again.

I don't know the cost. I'm thinking that as cost of treatment versus, say, some guy not wearing a helmet busting his skull open on blacktop it's much more costly.

Problem is, the helmet thing isn't the best comparison. Motorcyclists tend to be young, which means that motorcycle accidents generally kill people who have many years to contribute to the Machine (On the other hand, of course, there's a reason why doctors call them "donorcycles."). Lung cancer patients tend to be older, which means they're reducing the number of years the Machine puts into them.

I suspect that doing this kind of math wouldn't benefit an academic's career, unless he was out for a career as a heartless bastard. But I'd still be interested to see the numbers.

[FrankCobretti]

Originally Posted by Phil

Did anyone ever see that PSA where the woman whose husband fell asleep in bed with a cigarette was holding a pic of herself in front of her head, and she took it down at the end and was all burned to fuck? Been looking for this ad for years.

No, but here's my favorite:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNjunlWUJJI

[Ludwig]

Even C3P0 knew the dangers of smoking. IT'S NOT TOO LATE KATE!!

[Chavez]

Originally Posted by FrankCobretti

Problem is, the helmet thing isn't the best comparison. Motorcyclists tend to be young, which means that motorcycle accidents generally kill people who have many years to contribute to the Machine (On the other hand, of course, there's a reason why doctors call them "donorcycles."). Lung cancer patients tend to be older, which means they're reducing the number of years the Machine puts into them.

Not sure what your point is here - I was just saying that someone undergoing a regimen of chemo/radiation/operation to deal with lung cancer was probably going to suck more dollars out of insurance company coffers than someone arriving at the hospital DOA. Or brain DOA.

[FrankCobretti]

I can see that. I'm thinking more along the lines of "holistic cost / benefit."

[nekkerbee]

Originally Posted by Phil

Did anyone ever see that PSA where the woman whose husband fell asleep in bed with a cigarette was holding a pic of herself in front of her head, and she took it down at the end and was all burned to fuck? Been looking for this ad for years.

I remember that one, I think it was back in the 80s and it unsettled the hell out of me. I've also been looking for it.

A young woman named Jacqueline Suburido did a drunk driving PSA using a similar technique. Very unpleasant, you have been warned.

[dreary louse]

Oh come the fuck on, don't paint all smokers with the same brush. People who smoke in bed before sleep are idiots.

[Jake]

Originally Posted by dreary louse

Oh come the fuck on, don't paint all smokers with the same brush. People who smoke in bed before sleep are idiots.

[Ryan S~]

Originally Posted by dreary louse

Oh come the fuck on, don't paint all smokers with the same brush. People who smoke in bed before sleep are idiots.

Yeah, cause that's exactly what they were saying in that ad. I understand the first draft of the tagline was "Every smoker in the world will turn their spouse into the Crypt Keeper"

[dreary louse]

I'm pretty sure that Jake referenced the ad because "smoking is dumb". I mean, smoking doesn't make one intelligent either (*awaits a swipe at himself*), but this example is simple human carelessness + drugs.

[mcnooj82]

I'll put myself on the 'smoking looks cool' train!

But only in movies. The way I find guns, violence, and horribly deviant acts cool in movies. I see people smoke in real life and it looks duuuumb. Or like nothing. It looks like a jittery buncha nothing.

What makes me laugh is all the people I sell cigarettes to muttering about how tobacco prices keep going up and joke about how it's time to quit. I never humor them or their tired attempt at humor. In fact I usually tell them that I'll gladly refuse to sell them the stuff to help them quit. Yeah, nobody ever takes me up on my offer. Hahaha.

Where I live, I'm generally not around places where people smoke. So it's not an issue for me. I'm a total square, so drugs and alcohol never tempted me. As long as it don't bug me, I don't bug it.

EDIT: Actually, I direct all my smoker-rage towards Korean smokers. Fucking morons.

EDIT2: Someone mentioned something about discolored Nintendos. Strange you mention it. My SNES got really discolored, but nobody in my house smoked. Also, everything EXCEPT the slot for the game cartridge had yellow discolorations. Different quality of plastic, I guess?

EDIT3: I'm as anti-drinking as they come, actually. But I've read studies showing that reasonable consumption of alcohol throughout an adult life is actually healthy for the heart. And not just red wine either. Alcohol in general. It's certainly something my anti-drinking self didn't want to believe, so I looked it up in several places (just google, mind you) and it was generally confirmed. This is just in regards to someone's comment that all alcohol consumption is bad for you.

[whiskey tango foxtrot]

Speaking as a smoker I'd love to throw an ashtray at Dreary Louse's head. Seriously, it's an awful habit and I'd love to quit. And I do my best not to expose others to my filth. If I'm smoking at a bus stop for example I stand well away from everyone else. But God I`d love to quit. For those of you who have a cigarettte on occasion or on weekends, please stop now.

[joeypants]

Originally Posted by whiskey tango foxtrot

Speaking as a smoker I'd love to throw an ashtray at Dreary Louse's head. Seriously, it's an awful habit and I'd love to quit. And I do my best not to expose others to my filth. If I'm smoking at a bus stop for example I stand well away from everyone else. But God I`d love to quit. For those of you who have a cigarettte on occasion or on weekends, please stop now.

If you'd love to quit, then why the hell don't you? Don't say "you can't." You can do anything you want to, and it sounds as if you really do want to.

[Ryan S~]

Originally Posted by dreary louse

I'm pretty sure that Jake referenced the ad because "smoking is dumb". I mean, smoking doesn't make one intelligent either (*awaits a swipe at himself*), but this example is simple human carelessness + drugs.

Pretty sure it was used as an example of one way smoking can hurt others around you. But you can carry on your persecution complex if you wish. Some day smokers will have their own Rosa Parks and won't we all feel dumb then.

[Jake]

"I say to you, Mr. Manager, TEAR DOWN THAT NO-SMOKING DIVIDER AT THE LOCAL DENNY'S!"

[Diva]

I was never a fan of the *Truth ads because, quite frankly, most smokers know that smoking is bad for their health. But the new ads that talk about disassociating smoking with other activities are pretty great. There's one where a woman breaks out a blender at work and starts mixing a cocktail to take out with her on her smoke break. And another where a guy hijacks a truck because he needs to drive while smoking.

[dreary louse]

Originally Posted by whiskey tango foxtrot

Speaking as a smoker I'd love to throw an ashtray at Dreary Louse's head. Seriously, it's an awful habit and I'd love to quit.

Where in this thread have I recommended smoking? Nowhere.

Originally Posted by mcnooj82

EDIT3: I'm as anti-drinking as they come, actually. But I've read studies showing that reasonable consumption of alcohol throughout an adult life is actually healthy for the heart. And not just red wine either. Alcohol in general. It's certainly something my anti-drinking self didn't want to believe, so I looked it up in several places (just google, mind you) and it was generally confirmed. This is just in regards to someone's comment that all alcohol consumption is bad for you.

I drink too and I don't have any illusions about it being especially good for me; it's quite easy to drink more than would be healthy. So my question to you is: Do you drink at all now? I don't care if you do, but you seem to care if others do. I don't even know what my habit would have to do with being a good person. Why is it that I have to have pro-health motives? Are there bad drinkers? Definitely.

Originally Posted by Ryan S~

Pretty sure it was used as an example of one way smoking can hurt others around you. But you can carry on your persecution complex if you wish. Some day smokers will have their own Rosa Parks and won't we all feel dumb then.

The situation of falling asleep with a cigarette isn't comparable to actual secondhand smoke in an enclosed space. Because people who smoke in that way are careless, dumb individuals who happen to smoke. Smoking doesn't lend me an urge to smoke in bed before I sleep for no reason.

I don't have a problem with smoking outside, but this nanny state will go too far, and in other directions if it isn't questioned by anybody. This dogma against smoking has, in places like NYC, reached a religious-like fervor that's not based on anything scientific, but rather social mores. I'm not saying smoking has value, I'm saying that you'll always find people who do things you don't enjoy which may irritate you. It's a fact of life. But the proponents of the nanny state cannot accept this. Also, some people are just drawn to the sublime, such as myself.

Some on this thread just sound ridiculous in how they make the image of somebody smoking outside so insidious. They can't just hate smoking and not smoke, now that it's well out of the way most of the time.

[mcnooj82]

Originally Posted by dreary louse

I drink too and I don't have any illusions about it being especially good for me; it's quite easy to drink more than would be healthy. So my question to you is: Do you drink at all now? I don't care if you do, but you seem to care if others do. I don't even know what my habit would have to do with being a good person. Why is it that I have to have pro-health motives? Are there bad drinkers? Definitely.

I take a sip here and there if the mood seems fitting. But in general, I still have an overly negative view on drinking. It really only affects what I think of people when 'getting fuuuuucked uuuuup' is the first impression I have of someone (which I kinda see all day). Otherwise, I have plenty of friends who enjoy drinking socially and then regret the ugly photos that come out of it later. They simply don't bring it up with me. I appreciate their gesture. And I certainly consider them good people.

I will fully admit, it's a terribly entrenched view that I have.

[Ryan S~]

Originally Posted by dreary louse

The situation of falling asleep with a cigarette isn't comparable to actual secondhand smoke in an enclosed space. Because people who smoke in that way are careless, dumb individuals who happen to smoke. Smoking doesn't lend me an urge to smoke in bed before I sleep for no reason.

I don't have a problem with smoking outside, but this nanny state will go too far, and in other directions if it isn't questioned by anybody. This dogma against smoking has, in places like NYC, reached a religious-like fervor that's not based on anything scientific, but rather social mores. I'm not saying smoking has value, I'm saying that you'll always find people who do things you don't enjoy which may irritate you. It's a fact of life. But the proponents of the nanny state cannot accept this. Also, some people are just drawn to the sublime, such as myself.

Some on this thread just sound ridiculous in how they make the image of somebody smoking outside so insidious. They can't just hate smoking and not smoke, now that it's well out of the way most of the time.

Keep railing against the machine! Some day smokers will get the right to vote. Then maybe we can start by having non-segregated schools and workplaces.Some day their may even be a smoking president, God, you can dream, can't you.

dreary louse, the smoker's Malcolm X.

[Wolff]

Originally Posted by Ryan S~

Keep railing against the machine! Some day smokers will get the right to vote. Then maybe we can start by having non-segregated schools and workplaces.Some day their may even be a smoking president, God, you can dream, can't you.

dreary louse, the smoker's Malcolm X.

The issue I think Drearylouse is trying to raise isn't the why - it's just the is. If there's more smokers than non-smokers and so their vote rules out victorious, so be it, likewise can be said of Whites outnumbering Black's but as in this instance, as in Drearylouse's counter argument, it's an expression of tyranny of the majority.

If it can't be said conclusively that outdoors smoking causes harm to anyone but the smoker, where do we have the right to ban it?

[Ryan S~]

Originally Posted by Wolff

The issue I think Drearylouse is trying to raise isn't the why - it's just the is. If there's more smokers than non-smokers and so their vote rules out victorious, so be it, likewise can be said of Whites outnumbering Black's but as in this instance, as in Drearylouse's counter argument, it's an expression of tyranny of the majority.

If it can't be said conclusively that outdoors smoking causes harm to anyone but the smoker, where do we have the right to ban it?

First they came for the drinkers, and I did not speak out because I didn't drink....

[dreary louse]

Wait,

Where the hell did I compare smoking to the civil rights movement?

Originally Posted by Wolff

If it can't be said conclusively that outdoors smoking causes harm to anyone but the smoker, where do we have the right to ban it?

Yes! This.

EDIT:

Really, I'm ultimately asking you people to leave me the fuck alone, which is valid considering the above quote. I've tried to explain things but it's useless. Ryan~S is on his own imaginary crusade, like I actually did compare smokers to oppressed black people. The nanny state is a different issue, and yes, they will come for you.