UP Post-Release Thread

[Zhukov]

Originally Posted by Ady Meet Roy

Sadly, that thread made me realize that a lead female protagonist will undoubtedly be a tougher sell for Pixar, simply because a lot of white males out there (over-generalizing, I know) find it uncomfortable trying to identify with a female character; many probably won't want to make the effort, without knowing why.

Again, I suggest the Incredibles. Pixar knows how to sell the pants off a movie. Yet in all the promotion for that film, it was the family that took center stage. I would argue that Elastigirl was the real protagonist of that movie - she keeps the family together, allowing them so save the day. Even if you don't want to make that attribution, then you'd have to say its the family as a unit that is the lead. Yes, they are white. But in a film that really had a fairly limited cast of characters, Frozone is depicted as being Mr. Incredibles oldest friend, his best man, and plays a prominent role in the final battle. Not a token at all. There is also the evil Asian assistant who turns out to be not be evil. Not exactly a white wash, but there's no need for a 'we are the world' lineup if it's not relevant to the plot. That's usually reserved for Captain Planet or Power Rangers.

[mcnooj82]

Elizabeth Pena is Asian!?

[Zhukov]

Maybe her character is just drawn that way. Maybe she's Italian. It's a cartoon, it can hard to discern these things sometimes.

[mcnooj82]

Oh definitely. If I didn't know she was voiced by Pena, I would have no idea what she was 'supposed' to be, if anything.

[Lionel Horsepackage]

Originally Posted by bobclark

of course. I see nothing wrong with the status quo because my male white ass is fully represented and that's the way it should be. I never relate with people of other races or genders in film or literature. That's what my argument's all about.
Do i really need to waste time refuting such a ridiculous assumption or can you just take me at my word when i say that's not where i'm coming from? Do i really seem like that kind of person on these boards? I read carrie fisher books, for crying out loud!

i drive a dodge stratus!

[The Prankster]

Originally Posted by Imperator GAC

Each viewer brings his own baggage along and interprets things a little differently. The intent of peter jackson was not to make the orcs mirror any specific minority race, but because they are exotic, dirty, dangerous and filthy, the viewer defaults to who they see as having those characteristics.

Uh, I was talking about the book.

[Ady Meet Roy]

Zhukov, I agree with you that The Incredibles was primarily a family-centric story. Heck, I agree that Elastigirl was probably Pixar's strongest female character to date--and the most noble character in that movie. But plot-wise (and even theme-wise to an extent), Helen functioned as a "reacter." She spent most of the movie reacting to Bob's plot; getting held up the night of her wedding; trying to snap him out of his midlife crisis; and finally having to save his ass from the fire. While all those things are well and good, it means she isn't the "protagonist" in the strictest sense--she's merely a competent backup to the main "actor." The main thrust of the story is all Mr. Incredible's--he's the one struggling with his place in life; he's the one that makes the wrong choices and then has to atone for them; he's the character that grows & changes the most over the course of the story. He's the character whose POV is the main focus for the audience.

On a somewhat related note, it would be awesome if Pixar decided to take all our advice and make the Incredibles sequel entirely about Edna Mode (who, ironically, is voiced by a man).

[mcnooj82]

Just a slight derail from the current (and worthwhile) topic, but I was given a link to a Youtube video just featuring a discussion panel about Pixar back when The Incredibles came out.

Ed Catmull, Andrew Stanton, and Brad Bird are part of it. There's a bit of technical jargon about the beginning of computer imaging, but it's still a fun talk about the beginning of Pixar. Brad Bird is especially fun to listen to. A rambunctious dude.

Pixar: A Human Story of Computer Animation

The panel goes for about 1 hour and 40 minutes.

[DARKMITE8]

Originally Posted by Ady Meet Roy

Admittedly, I try to avoid watching both Dora and Diego, so maybe it's not as much of a conspiracy as I like to think.

Well, Diego rescues animals, and Dora (Diego's cousin)... explores and shit. Probably looking for a shoe store.

Do you know what free will is?

[Jesse Custer]

Just wanted to pop back in on a crazy day and say that I really appreciate the dialogue on this subject. Some really good points made, and well worth absorbing and thinking about. Dave and Prankster, thanks for taking the time to respond thoughtfully to my rambling.

[Fat Dragon]

I haven't been to the movies in probably a year or two, but there is a 2 screen theater a few blocks from my new digs, so I saw this 2 weeks ago. I loved it, especially since I can't stand the current pop culture gags that are so popular in these movies. I thought the pacing was just perfect.

Some of the imagery was wonderful, the unveiling of the thousands of balloons, for example. Quite a few scenes reminded me of watching Buster Keaton films. And I like the simplicity of the waterfall, it wasn't an overly detailed lush green forest, it was, rustic, I might say, again reminded me of an image one would find in a silent film.

Also, using fantasy logic, I didn't take it that Muntz simply died. If you notice he fell ( a looooong way down) with some balloons wrapped around his ankle. So in my mind it wasn't the horrible fall to his death that was being projected. More like he perhaps landed in the jungle and doesn't have any of his equipment or dog helpers any more. It would perhaps be laughable to say that a few balloons would let him land safely, but otherwise why would they be in the shot?

[Greg David]

Originally Posted by Fat Dragon

Also, using fantasy logic, I didn't take it that Muntz simply died. If you notice he fell ( a looooong way down) with some balloons wrapped around his ankle. So in my mind it wasn't the horrible fall to his death that was being projected. More like he perhaps landed in the jungle and doesn't have any of his equipment or dog helpers any more. It would perhaps be laughable to say that a few balloons would let him land safely, but otherwise why would they be in the shot?

I think his fate is supposed to be up in the air. After all, I don't think that a few balloons allowing him to land safely is any more laughable than the idea that hundreds of balloons could lift a house off its foundation. They put those balloons in there for anybody who'd rather believe that he didn't die. It works within the logic of the film, but if you hate it, you get to ignore it.

[mcnooj82]

I dunnoooOOOoooo... he drops pretty hard in that shot.

Of course, there were talking dogs flying biplanes in the movie. BIPLANES!

[Ady Meet Roy]

Grey Squadron!

Hey Tati, did you get to see UP finally, as you mentioned elsewhere? What were your thoughts?

[Andrew Joe]

How useless would it be for Muntz to survive that fall? He'd be dead in the next 10 minutes, days, weeks regardless.

Originally Posted by Greg David

They put those balloons in there for anybody who'd rather believe that he didn't die. It works within the logic of the film,

As Carl repeatedly referred to the house as Ellie, I took this to include the balloons as well - Thus Muntz catching his foot on balloons and his death are a result of Ellie (Who's character design resembles a balloon, as Pixar has stated). I'm surprised you can go with this but not think there's some shenanigans in Drag Me to Hell Greg.

[Greg David]

Of course there are shenanigans in Drag Me To Hell. Just not the ones that Mr. Muck is positing.

And frankly, I do prefer to think that Muntz fell to his death. Even given the magical properties of balloons in the film, it was consistently demonstrated that these particular ones were losing their buoyancy, and were on their last legs. But if it makes children and parents happy to think that they saved him from going splat, there we are.

[Andrew Joe]

"Dad what happened to the bad man?"
"Uhh, he broke his legs and learned his lesson."
"What was the lesson?"
"Don't land feet first."

[mcnooj82]

"But dad, Big Willie Style landed feet first in Independence Day and then started to kick the alien around."

"Not everyone can be Big Willie Style, son..."

(sorry, I just got back from a showing of ID4 at a local theater's midnight movie series)

[Fat Dragon]

I can go with the idea that the balloons were part of Muntz' undoing, given that the house itself is a stand in for Ellie, so, sort of like she got the last laugh on him. I thought perhaps the balloons might have been there to make his death seem less graphic. Of course the movie has death all over it, from the sad but gentle passing of Ellie, to the stark reality of Muntz' museum.

Nooj, I checked out your blog (portfolio), I like the awkward turtle vid, if I didn't know better (and I rarely do) I would have thought it was a real commercial.
I'll take the cute asian lady to go please.

[Richard Dickson]

I think the idea of Muntz being stranded by himself in the jungle with no gear is more disturbing than him simply falling to his death.

[Greg David]

Originally Posted by Richard Dickson

I think the idea of Muntz being stranded by himself in the jungle with no gear is more disturbing than him simply falling to his death.

But that way, those goonybirds get to eat him.

[Feral Akodon]

Originally Posted by DaveB

It's pretty important that the fantasy elements be real in the context of the film so that the charms of everyday life have something with which to be compared.

I finally went to see it. As Russell said "Sometimes, it's the boring stuff I remember the most" and that line killed me.
The last glimpse of the house all in shades of grey is a great metaphor.

[DARKMITE8]

Originally Posted by Richard Dickson

I think the idea of Muntz being stranded by himself in the jungle with no gear is more disturbing than him simply falling to his death.

I guess it's a good thing (for him) he killed off all the dangerous local fauna.

[Tati]

This was as amazing as i expected it to be. I won't retread on things already said, but the thing that stuck the most with me is the simplicity of the story. It may be the simplest and smaller stakes pixar picture to date.
It's just an old dude, a child, a dog and a bird. And yet, it's one of the most touching films of their repertoire.

Really fantastic work all around.

[stelios]

Best movie of the year so far? You bet.

Wow. The cliche used to be that the quality of Pixar's films should shame other animation studios. Well, now pretty much everyone in Hollywood should take a long hard look at Pixar and try picking up some stuff. It's such a rarity having a film that can be equally emotionally engaging, laugh out loud funny and an excellent old fashioned adventure story at the same time.

Sorry for raising such a long time dead thread, but our glorious movie-distributing overlords only now deemed us worthy of watching this.

[Dragon Ma]

Best movie of the year bar none.

Devin's right in that opening 10 minutes are almost impossible to live up to, just watching that wonder in Carl's eyes as his hero is humiliated and set's off on his adventure, which leads Carl to meet Ellie, he's absolutely dumbstruck by Ellie.

Jesus, that entire sequence of Ellie and Carl's life is the centrepiece of the film, just moments both uplifting and heartbreaking, Ellie and Carl in the hospital is just a wonderfully intimate moment, the next shot of Ellie sitting in the backyard letting the wind blow on her face is an amazing human moment. The rest is a beautiful series of scenes of a couple's devotion to each other. Seeing Carl running up the hill while Ellie is struggling is a nice callback to the scene of Ellie running up the hill. Carl's final goodbye to his wife is the perfect capper.

The rest of the film, is of course about Carl's inability to get past his wife's death, the house floating away into the cloud is just a brilliant visual metaphor, even Carl unloading the rest of the furniture is a wonderful bit of character work.

Although the melancholy works extremely well, this film is also tons of fun, I haven't had this much fun in a theatre since Wallace and Gromit: Curse of the Wererabbit.

Really, just an amazing, amazing film.

[stelios]

Funny thing. Even though I was afraid that the scene where Carl throws out all his old stuff so he can fly might have been too on the nose, apparently I was wrong. I talked with a couple of people that needed the meaning of this scene explained to them. As in "Why didn't he throw out his old furniture earlier? He would have arrived to the falls in no time."

[Feral Akodon]

Originally Posted by stelios

Funny thing. Even though I was afraid that the scene where Carl throws out all his old stuff so he can fly might have been too on the nose, apparently I was wrong. I talked with a couple of people that needed the meaning of this scene explained to them. As in "Why didn't he throw out his old furniture earlier? He would have arrived to the falls in no time."

There's a great scene that mirrors this earlier one. One of the last shoots inside the house is all in shades of grey, Carl watches all the stuff and later on he jumps (while fighting the other dude), I thought it was a nice way to silently say goodbye.

[Kriegaffe]

I liked it, but I didn't leave the film buzzing. I can't fault the execution. Perhaps the tone wasn't really my thing. It was all a bit silly with the balloons and talking dogs, I didn't find the action scenes all that thrilling. The villain felt merely adequate.

Maybe my expectations were out of control.

The Incredibles and Ratatouille are still my favorite Pixar films. District 9 is still my favorite film of the year.

[Xagarath Ankor]

Well, this finally came to the UK.

Fantastic opening. Rest of the film's good, but a little too fast-paced- it really could have done with a little more room to breathe between the storm and the arrival in South America.
Nontheless, one of Pixar's best, though it doesn't quite fire on all cylinders the way The Incredibles did.

[Ben Thomas]

Not quite as exciting as The Incredibles, but easily the most moving film they've made and head and shoulders above recent efforts Wall-E, Ratatouille and Cars, all of which had it going on, but didn't quite deliver in the way this does.

Also, the first film I saw in 3D and I can kind of see why Harry knowles found the 3D more a distraction for this one. I think it would work just as well in 2D.

The first time I've taken my girlfriend to see an animated movie (of all the Pixar films, the only she had seen was Nemo, which is far from my favourite) and she was absolutely rapt by it. I don't think The Incredibles is her cup of tea, but I've already signed her up for viewings of the Toy Stories, Monsters Inc, Ratatouille and Wall-E, which I'm really chuffed about.

A wonderful, touching film and yes, one of the year's - and the studio's - best.

[Doc Happenin]

Bah, and all you furreners call us silly for not liking your movies! hmph.

[mcnooj82]

Creative Screenwriting Podcast has an interview with Pete Docter and Bob Peterson for UP. I love hearing about how they build up their stories from scratch completely.

http://media.libsyn.com/media/creati...sonUpQandA.mp3

[James]

It also provides an answer to the question of whether Muntz dies. The answer is yes, though interestingly they changed it from early versions because his fate was ambiguous (Originally Muntz gets caught up in balloons and is dragged away into the sky) and people thought they were setting up a sequel.

Also, fun fact. A Pixar employee worked out it would take 25 million balloons to lift Carl's house.

[mcnooj82]

I love the way Docter sounded annoyed as he recalled trying to avoid cliches with Muntz' death. Try anything different, and people went, "Nyah... trying to save him for a sequel, ehhhhh!?" Hahaha.

[Trejo]

I waited.. I waited all these long months, avoided this thread and all discussion for fear of spoilers.. and have just rewarded my rock-solid patience with a viewing of the Bluray.

Remind me again why the hell I waited so long?

This just shot to the top of almost every list I would make with the word "favorite" attached. I'm echoing 11 pages of the same statement, but god damnit that opening 10 minutes was perfection.. so elegantly handled. Just beautiful. When Carl found the "Things I'm Going to Do" section filled with pictures of their life together.. I was fighting back some Paradise Falls of my own.

Love. This. Film.

And the Bluray is beyond gorgeous.

[Dave Jarvie]

Finally got to see this

Am now kicking myself for not seeing it in Theaters....

Never again shall a Pixar movie be relegated to my crappy tv...


There isn't much I can't say that wont' echo what has been said before, but I haven't got this tearyeyed in a film since Optimus Prime bit it way back in the day....

[agracru]

I watched it again tonight and this time, I let myself indulge more in Giacchino's score. Beautiful.

When I first saw this in the theater, the sequence of Ellie's and Carl's life together drew a couple of choice tears from me; this time around, no such luck (we're even, you damn movie!), but I still found myself so moved that I didn't even notice I was gently squeezing my fiancee's hand until she kindly pointed out that I'm a huge marshmallow.

Fuck.

I don't think I've seen any other film this year featuring a single moment that has the same emotional impact as that particular bit. Pixar truly nailed it with Up.

[Bucho]

I saw it a few weeks back when it came out in theatres down under and although I loved the opening and the idea there was a distinct lack of epic to the South American adventure. I also didn't think they sold Muntz's reasons for being technologically advanced enough to be able to have dogs talk but not being able, in 50 years, to find that bird.

I still had fun with it, I still laughed a bunch, I just expected more Pixarness from it. This company made a film about tiny toys completely epic a decade and a half ago, I don't get how an adventure set in maybe the most naturally epic setting on the planet (along with the Himalayas, The Sahara, the Savannah and the oceans I guess) has to offer felt so strangely lacking in scale.

[Chris Spider]

Just saw this again thanks to Blu-Ray:
-My God, the BR transfer for this film is gorgeous. Pixar's films really seem to shine on the format (hell, animation in general), and this is no exception.

-I actually get a very satisfying kick out of Muntz's death. The drop is so sudden and fast that it's more visceral than other "falling to his death" villain exits I've seen, and, as others have noted, since the house represents Ellie, it can almost be interpreted as her saving Carl from beyond the grave. Also, Christopher Plummer is so great in the role because you wouldn't know it was him; he completely disguises his Brit accent and makes the transition from hospitable-to-crazy-and-evil seamlessly.

-One more thing on Muntz: The scene where he talks about previous visitors and we slowly realize that he's probably killed every one of them gives me fucking chills. It's probably the scariest Pixar scene ever.

-I watched this with my mother, and I can think of no better scene that encapsulates Pixar's brilliance than the part where Muntz tries to burn down Carl's house. My mother is not worried about Carl, Russell or Kevin. No, she's worried about the damn HOUSE. They get you to empathize with a house. That takes talent.

-I love that the violence doesn't feel forced, even in wince-inducing bits for animal lovers like myself when Alpha bites and throws Dug with his mouth.

Great, great flick.

[SAIRUS]

Yeah Pixar is on their way ummm they're increasing in height with every film.

The blu ray was awesome.

[Chris Spider]

Another bit of dog behavior Pixar gets exactly right: Muntz's dogs going apeshit after he says "treat".