Deep Blue Goodbye/Travis McGee film?

[Casey Moore]

How did I miss that? Oh well, I am an idiot. I was thinking of him after watching the Human Target preview.

[Paul McCartney]

I was watching ALL THE PRESIDENT'S MEN, and Redford/Hoffman made for a good McGee/Meyer combo.

But I'm pretty sure the first, more tropical half of CASINO ROYALE is the closest we'll get to a decent McGee movie.

[Casey Moore]

I was watching Manhunter the other night and thought how much fun it would have been to see Michael Mann attempt a Travis McGee book back in the days when he was working on Miami Vice. It might have been a disaster or something really interesting.

[Casey Moore]

So Leo as Travis McGee?

I think he can bring the dramatic chops, but not sure he can bring the physical presence. And I have no hope of it coming out actually good from Fox.

[Casey Moore]

Depending on how Shutter Island goes, maybe Leo as McGee and Ruffalo as Meyer. Bam. Start printing the money.

[Paul McCartney]

Is this essentially an all-purpose Travis McGee thread?

Because I would like to talk about the books by themselves. I'm working my way through them for the first time right now, not in any order, and I'm not sure whether they're great exactly, but I am addicted.

MacDonald's a great writer in his way, and a lot of individual passages are outstanding, but he suffers from "every character talks the same" syndrome more than any other author I've read. All the plots rely on minor characters remembering - in vivid detail - events that happened months or even years prior. That's all part of the fun, but it takes a few books for this to sink in.

What is everyone's pick for best book? I personally couldn't even begin to guess.

I would have voted for A DEADLY SHADE OF GOLD as worst, because it's so long, the plot and pacing are all over the place, and I had no idea what was going on, but by the end of it I felt that I'd read an epic, and it's the one I most want to revisit.

The best part of the series is the villains, easy. Absolutely the scariest, most vile bad guys I've read about. You can't wait for Travis to just get rid of them. Junior Allen in DEEP BLUE GOODBYE probably takes the cake, but the bad guy in A TAN AND SANDY SILENCE gives him a run for his money.

I understand that BRIGHT ORANGE FOR THE SHROUD has a super-scary redneck bad guy called Boone Waxwell, but that's one of the books I can't find a copy of anywhere.

[Phil]

I'm about to give the books a whirl, but in typical OCD-having chronological order.

Originally Posted by RathBandu

Makes me think this could be the star-making/Clooney in Out of Sight role that Jon Hamm deserves, not some comic book adaptation. Sorry Phil!

Hey, I just didn't want him dressing up in a superhero costume. Giving Hamm a blue-collar, American Bond-ish franchise would be swell.

Paul - http://cgi.ebay.com/Bright-Orange-fo...item2c50e3d680

[Casey Moore]

I am working my way through the series in order. No idea why you can't find the book Paul. I can find the whole series at about any bookstore over here that I need to. Let us know, I am sure one of us can find it and send it to you.

I love the series, but my favorite bits are when he comments on Florida. So much of what he says still applies. I spent every summer in Destin, FL until I was 11. I watched it go from a sleepy beach town to a place overrun with development. Sad.

By the way, Moriarty is absolutely livid from what I can tell about the film. He loves the series apparently. Was hoping the movie announcement would get us a nice long think piece on the series.

I am still trying to work out in my head more of the McGee as the American answer to Bond. Ideas but can't get them down straight.

[Phil]

Even better quality link to the fight scene!

Edit: Try to picture Leo DiCaprio spouting off any of this:

ECONOMICS

"I remembered one of Meyer's concepts about cultural resiliency. In the third world, the village of one thousand can provide itself with what it needs for survival. Smash the cities and half the villages, and the other half keep going. In our world, the village of one thousand has to import water, fuel, food, clothing, medicine, electric power, and entertainment. Smash the cities and all the villages die." Travis in THE GREEN RIPPER, p. 183.


POPULATION

"All the barroom sociologists were orating about national fiber while, every minute and every hour, the most incredible population explosion in history was rendering their views, their judgments, even their very lives more obsolete... They should hark to the locust. When there is only a density of X per acre, he is a plain old grasshopper, munching circumspectly, content with his home ground. Raise it to 2X and an actual physical change begins to occur. His color changes, his jaw gets bigger, and the wing muscles begin to grow. At 3X they take off in great hungry clouds, each cloud a single herd instinct, chomping everything bare in its path. There is no decline in the moral fiber of the grasshopper. There is just a mass pressure canceling out all individual decisions." Travis in BRIGHT ORANGE FOR THE SHROUD, p.64.

DEVELOPMENT

[Re Florida] "We're getting a thousand new residents a day... We get thirty eight million tourists a year... And the rivers and swamps are dying, the birds are dying, the fish are dying. They're paving the whole state... Everything is going to stop working all at once. Then watch the exodus." Travis in CINNAMON SKIN, p.101.

"Florida was second rate, flashy and cheap, tacky and noisy. The water supply was failing. The developers were moving in on the marshlands and estuaries, pleading new economic growth. The commercial fishermen were an endangered species. Miami was the world's murder capital... Wary folks stayed off the unlighted beaches and dimly lighted streets at night, fearing the minority knife, the ethnic club, the bullet from the stolen gun." Travis in CINNAMON SKIN, p.108.

"San Francisco is the most depressing city in America. The come-latelys might not think so... But there are too many of us who used to love her. She was like a wild classy kook of a gal, one of those rain-walkers, laughing gray eyes, tousle of dark hair--sea misty, a lithe and lively lady, who could laugh at you or with you, and at herself when needs be... A girl to be in love with, with love like a heady magic... She used to give it away, but now she sells it to the tourists. She imitates herself." Travis in THE QUICK RED FOX, p.83.

LAW ENFORCEMENT

"Florida elects its sheriffs on a party basis, a shockingly bad system... Law enforcement has become so complex, technical, and demanding, so dependent on the expert use of expert equipment, one might as well say it would make as much sense to elect brain surgeons from the public at large as sheriffs." Travis in THE EMPTY COPPER SEA, p.59.

"Fingerprints work fine on television. But, on a rough guess, they get a usable print off one out of every hundred guns, one out of every twenty cars. ...It is usually more meaningful to find a car wiped clean... Then that has some significance." Travis in A PURPLE PLACE FOR DYING, p.55.

DANGER AND COPING

[Re assuming an identity] "People take you at the value you put upon yourself. That makes it easy for them. All you do is blend in. Accept the customs of every new tribe. And you try not to say too much because then you sound as if you were selling something... Sweetie, everybody in this wide world is so constantly, continuously concerned with the impact he's making, he just doesn't have the time to wonder too much about the next guy." Travis in BRIGHT ORANGE FOR THE SHROUD, p.85.

[On carrying concealed money] "You get hold of one of the longer ace bandages for people with trick knees... You divide the money into two equal stacks, fold each in half, wrap each stack in pliofilm, slip one under the bandage above the knee in front, one above the knee in back. No risk of losing. Nothing uncomfortable. Just a comforting presence." Travis in THE TURQUOISE LAMENT, p.13.

[On learning to shoot a handgun] "...tape a pencil flashlight with a very narrow beam to the barrel, exactly in line with it, and rig it so that you can comfortably turn the beam on for an instant with thumb or finger. Then stand in a room in the dusk, turn and fire, spin and fire, fall and fire, at the lamp, the corner of the picture, the book on the table, a magazine on the floor. Point naturally as if pointing the forefinger, arm in a comfortable position, never bringing it up to the eye to aim. An hour of practice can develop an astonishing accuracy." Travis in THE SCARLET RUSE, p.267.


PSYCHOLOGY

"You can be at ease only with those people to whom you can say any damn fool thing that comes into your head, knowing they will respond in kind, and knowing that any misunderstandings will be thrashed out right now, rather than buried deep and given a chance to fester." Travis in DARKER THAN AMBER, p.10.

"No matter how many times you do it, how many times you pretend to be someone you aren't, and you get the goodhearted cooperation of some trusting person, you feel a little bit soiled. There is no smart-ass pleasure to be gained from misleading the innocent." Travis in CINNAMON SKIN p.122.

"One good way [to detect poisonous females] is to watch how the other women react... Just the way, honey, a woman should be damned wary of a man other men have no use for." Travis in BRIGHT ORANGE FOR THE SHROUD, p.27.

[Regarding hunting] "Never had I met the man who had the infantry memories, who had knocked down human meat and seen it fall, who ever had any stomach for shooting living things... His manhood would need no artificial reinforcing." Travis in A DEADLY SHADE OF GOLD, p.231.

"...she hadn't had a chance. She was too passive, too permissive, too subdued for an emotional fascist like Charlie. He had eroded her confidence in herself, in everything she thought she was able to do, from meeting people to cooking dinner to driving a car... Were the sexes reversed you would call it emasculation. People like Charlie work toward total and perpetual domination." Travis in DARKER THAN AMBER, p.8.


LOVE AND SEX

"In a man's home you live by his code. It does not have to be typed out and glued to the guest suite door. He did not want me to to kick his dogs, overwork his horses, bribe his servants, read his diary, filch his silverware, borrow his toothbrush, or lay his wife." Travis in A TAN AND SANDY SILENCE, p.31.


FITNESS

"One very sound rule for the body is always keep in mind what it was designed to do. The body was shaped by the need to run long distances on resiliant turf, to run very fast for short distances, to climb trees, and to carry loads back to the cave, so any persistent exercises you do which is not a logical part of that ancient series of uses is, in general, bad for the body." Travis in CINNAMON SKIN p.99.

"An office-softened body in its middle years needs a long, long time to come around. Until a man can walk seven miles in two hours without blowing like a porpoise, without sweating gallons, without bumping his heart past 120, it is asinine to start jogging. ...Walking briskly no less than six hours a week will do it..." Travis in THE GREEN RIPPER, p.31.

With that reedy voice of his, he's going to sound like some Fight Club asshole.

[Paul McCartney]

Originally Posted by Phil

Even better quality link to the fight scene!

Edit: Try to picture Leo DiCaprio spouting off any of this:


With that reedy voice of his, he's going to sound like some Fight Club asshole.

That's why I can only ever picture Steve McQueen as Travis when I read them. MacDonald writes like I imagine McQueen talked did in real life. So HEP, MAN... so WITH IT.

I'm not sure reading them in order is a great idea. DEEP BLUE GOODBYE is a great introduction, but the 2nd one, NIGHTMARE IN PINK, is possibly the biggest turd in the whole series. Just so wonky. That said, reading such a wonky book so soon out of the traps is a good primer for how weird the series could be.

I just read ONE FEARFUL YELLOW EYE. 90% of it takes place in Chicago in Christmas week, and then suddenly the climax takes place 2 months later in Florida. I'm pretty sure that violates all narrative/storytelling rules, but MacDonald doesn't seem to give a shit.

[Phil]

Neat article about the early efforts to translate the character to a filmed medium.

Almost immediately after the series began, the scribe started receiving offers to transport the McGee character from books to television. In 1965 MacDonald had his first meeting with a quartet of Hollywood types who wanted to buy the television rights. They were so confident about the match between McGee and TV that they had forged on: scripting episodes, signing contracts with sponsors, and casting Chuck Connors in the lead role. The chaps found that "it was extraordinarily difficult to find the right approach to a writer who doesn't believe in television," MacDonald wrote to friend Dan Rowan. "[They were] wrong. I believe in it. One percent of it is very very good....and 99 percent of everything is and always has been schlock. I don't want Trav to [be simplified as] the series tube requires, nor do I want the angle of approach wrenched this way and that when the ratings don't move and everybody...starts trying this and trying that."

Eventually, MacDonald signed with Jack Reeves and Walter Seltzer of independent production company Major Pictures. They intended to have McGee appear in a new motion picture every eighteen months a la James Bond. Naturally, The Deep Blue Good-by would be a good place to start a McGee movie series, yet the first movie slated for the screen was the 7th McGee book, Darker Than Amber. MacDonald received the script on June 14, 1968 and was unimpressed to say the least. In a letter to Jack Reeves, MacDonald prophetically stated that, "I am as sure of the sun rising tomorrow that you will make just one McGee movie."

"Aside from basic structure and some good visuals, you have a dog. It has a coarse and amateurish stamp, with less class and taste and insight than many a good television script...You have got something for the third feature at Kentucky drive-ins during the mating season....If you bomb with this, you are going to put me out of business insofar as the cinematic McGee is concerned. If you go with what you sent me, you bomb. It is that easy. I did not think that you would manage to lose McGee in the very first script, and turn him into some kind of hunk of dull, swinging, ass-chasing brutality, with no humor, no lift, and no awareness."

[Cameron Hughes]

Originally Posted by Phil

Neat article about the early efforts to translate the character to a filmed medium.

Thought of this casting this afternoon.

[Phil]

God damn. That's solid. We're just pissing ourselves off though. And is Leo down with a franchise? I'm thinking no.

[Casey Moore]

I am more and more convinced the only way the books could be done would be Mad Men style, and working not just as a mystery but commentary on those years.

Currently reading A Tan And Sandy Silence. Cutting down to the McGee as a con man a lot.

[Jake]

Okay, you guys sold me on picking these up even though I've never read a single one of the series and the only knowledge I have of Travis McGee is the dude who boards here under that pseudonym. I kinda fell in love with some of those passages that Phil posted up there, and of course the endorsements from Rath and Cameron don't hurt either. When it comes to crime fiction, I'll follow you two like a baby goose.

[Misfit]

I don't suppose anybody remembers which one has McGee's thoughts on surround-sound stereo? He ultimately thinks it sounds bland and forgettable, because the band is supposed to be over there. I'd like to re-read it, but I have no clue which book it was in, and buzzing through the stack of McGee paperbacks at home is kind of daunting.

[Trav McGee]

Can't remember which book, either, but remember he called the 70s version "quadra-phony."

I watched Inglourious Basterds again a week ago, and still can't quite believe that was Rod Taylor as Churchill.

For the OCDers, here's the order of publishing:

1964 The Deep Blue Good-By
1964 Nightmare In Pink
1964 A Purple Place For Dying
1964 The Quick Red Fox
1965 A Deadly Shade of Gold
1965 Bright Orange for the Shroud
1966 Darker than Amber
1966 One Fearful Yellow Eye
1968 Pale Gray for Guilt
1969 The Girl in the Plain Brown Wrapper
1969 Dress Her in Indigo
1970 The Long Lavender Look
1972 A Tan and Sandy Silence
1973 The Scarlet Ruse
1974 The Turquoise Lament
1975 The Dreadful Lemon Sky
1978 The Empty Copper Sea
1980 The Green Ripper
1981 Free Fall in Crimson
1982 Cinnamon Skin
1985 The Lonely Silver Rain

I do recommend going in order, although there's not a lot of serialization. There's a handful of once-or-twice recurring characters beyond McGee and Meyer (and the colorful-background neighbors like the Alabama Tiger), though they're not usually so crucial. In one case, there's a huge payoff by the end of the series, though.

Especially, though, the last 5 must be read last, and in order. Green Ripper is practically a sequel to Empty Copper Sea (avoid the Sam Elliot TV movie, fair warning), and same with Cinnamon Skin to Free Fall in Crimson. Both, though, for character reasons, not plot/villain. (Green Ripper especially departs from the con/mystery vein more than any other in the series.) McGee and Meyer really get put through the changes in those. And The Lonely Silver Rain is most definitely the final chapter as intended by MacDonald. Probably the most satisfying capper to a long-running series as I've ever come across, in just about any medium.

The first four -- all knocked out in '64! -- are definitely MacDonald feeling his legs and sorting out the character. Quick, dirty, relatively simple action/mystery for plots. But in lots of ways interchangeable (other than Pink's trippier parts). Deadly Shade of Gold was his attempt at making something Bigger, and he admitted later he overreached, too soon, and sort of blew it. Still, it's got mostly great parts, they just make for a muddled whole. Later he got the hang of McGee operating in a larger scope. But if the first 5 don't turn you away, there's platinum coming. There's hardly a dog in the middle run (though Dress Her In Indigo is definitely the weakest).

I hate you for putting Aaron Eckhart in my head, Cameron. I'm doing my best to think positive for Leo, but he's got such an uphill battle to make this work.

EDIT: That passage on San Fransisco is one of my favorites. MacDonald could pull off metaphor like nobody's business.

[Cameron Hughes]

Originally Posted by Jake

Okay, you guys sold me on picking these up even though I've never read a single one of the series and the only knowledge I have of Travis McGee is the dude who boards here under that pseudonym. I kinda fell in love with some of those passages that Phil posted up there, and of course the endorsements from Rath and Cameron don't hurt either. When it comes to crime fiction, I'll follow you two like a baby goose.

I'm not a super huge fan. They are awfully dated the earlier you go, but they're really important to the genre and influenced damn near every big writer. Don Winslow told me several years ago that Boone Daniels was going to be his McGee. The books are shockingly angry social fiction at times.

Treat it like Mad Men and the dated stuff, like attitude toward women, won't bother you that much.

Plus, McGee is human, there's a brain and heart to the series, which is why I kinda hate Lee Child's overly macho Jack Reacher.

I really hate Leo as McGee. Even Matt Damon would be better, Downey could have pulled it off too, but I kinda love my idea of Eckhart. He could easily pull off that 60's Mad Men look.

[Cameron Hughes]

Originally Posted by Casey Moore

I am working my way through the series in order. No idea why you can't find the book Paul. I can find the whole series at about any bookstore over here that I need to. Let us know, I am sure one of us can find it and send it to you.

I love the series, but my favorite bits are when he comments on Florida. So much of what he says still applies. I spent every summer in Destin, FL until I was 11. I watched it go from a sleepy beach town to a place overrun with development. Sad.

By the way, Moriarty is absolutely livid from what I can tell about the film. He loves the series apparently. Was hoping the movie announcement would get us a nice long think piece on the series.

I am still trying to work out in my head more of the McGee as the American answer to Bond. Ideas but can't get them down straight.

Link? I love Moriarty's passion.

[Casey Moore]

Just some stuff he posted on Twitter, Cameron. Basically, Drew is someone whose thoughts I would love to read on the series as a whole and his reasons for why the character shouldn't be adapted. Some of the responses he had to me about it:

I'm trying to pretend it didn't happen. It didn't happen. IT DIDN'T HAPPEN!

It's because 99.9% of everyone has no idea who Travis McGee is.
Which is why it doubly pisses me off they're fucking with the character. The name has no public recognition, so why buy it?

You really can't call the earlier books dated, since they are of their time, and even then McGee was a bit more progressive than other characters.

One of my favorite bits was reading The Girl In The Plain Brown Wrapper while being in Sarasota since it references Casey Key where I was kayaking by every day during the time I was reading the book.

[Casey Moore]

Well I might get my wish sooner than I thought:

You will get your wish soon, Casey. But I disagree that they can't be adapted. They can. Just not by Fox, evidently.

[Phil]

"Moriarty" tends to embarrass himself when he's overly passionate about something. I don't feel like taking a cheap shot about his kid's name or being banned from the ranch or loudly vowing to never watch a franchise again or whatever, but Devin's passion > Drew's passion. (Sorry, Drew! No offense meant)

[Casey Moore]

I lose more sleep to these books. Damn. Didn't even finish last night. Had to put it down so I could have some rest for today since we start filming tomorrow.

[Phil]

Fanwank alert! If they're not going to go period with the film adaptations (but especially if they ARE), Riann Johnson could probably adapt the shit out of Travis McGee. If I'm late to that revelation, apologies.

[Casey Moore]

Rian Johnson doing McGee as played by say Channing Tatum or Jon Hamm in a period film would be pretty damn good Phil.

A Tan and Sandy Silence really starts to hit home what A Long Lavender Look left off with: McGee getting older and bit more broken each time. The end of A Tan and Sandy Silence is a bit fucking heartbreaking.

[Cameron Hughes]

Lets talk directors!

I was watching the greatly underrated The Mexican this afternoon and Gore Verbinski could be very cool.

I'll be really disappointed if the eventual film is just an action-fest.

[Phil]

George Armitage's heart was frequently in the right place. Not sure why his resume is so sparse.

[Paul McCartney]

I mentioned it in a different thread, but if THE WAY OF THE GUN is any indication, Christopher McQuarrie would be perfect. The action scenes were all super-realistic and educational, which is the best thing about the McGee books. There is also plenty of black humour, nastiness, and absurd philosophizing. And although it was set in modern times, it felt like it could have been made in 1971.

Originally Posted by Casey Moore

Rian Johnson doing McGee as played by say Channing Tatum or Jon Hamm in a period film would be pretty damn good Phil.

A Tan and Sandy Silence really starts to hit home what A Long Lavender Look left off with: McGee getting older and bit more broken each time. The end of A Tan and Sandy Silence is a bit fucking heartbreaking.

TAN AND SANDY SILENCE is probably a favourite of mine, insofar as I have one. Plenty of beachcombing and smut and seduction, combined with a confusing financial flim-flammery plotline, horrifying villain, plenty of philosophical navel-gazing, and Meyer at his most loveable.

It also has a funny part where Travis' girlfriend bitches to him and he says "What are you talking about, woman?" 100% Pure Steve McQueen!

[Paul McCartney]

Also HEY it appears some fruitcake academic has written an ENTIRE BOOK about the Travis McGee series. It's pretty good reading.
You can read whole bunches of it here.

[Casey Moore]

We have gone over a few directors. Michael Mann would be my first choice. Scorsese has already adapted/remade one McDonald story. There are two for the mix.

[Phil]

Darker Than Amber has a couple nuggets which would give Tarantino a boner (great POV shot from the bottom of a full bathtub), but is hamstrung by a script that seems to only occasionally remember the flavor of the books. McGee is written as more of a bohemian than the deep thinker of the books. The plot to foil the villains is sort of Scooby-Dooish in nature, and I'm not sure but I think Trav got shitfaced during that plot for no apparent reason.

Great score; direction sporadically rises above tv-movie level. Would love to see it widescreen; the cropped full frame feels cramped a lot of the time. Decent location work. The casting is all pretty great, really: In stills I thought Rod Taylor was too old and squatty, but he's a goddamn bruiser, really sells it. Bikel is good as Meyer, but you have no idea who he is or why he's there. An hour into the film he mentions an economics background. Suzy Kendall and Anna Capri are drop dead gorgeous. William Smith and his bodybuilder sidekick are like oily, low-rent Bond henchmen - Red Grant crossed with Wint and Kidd. I feel okay about the five bucks I spent on iOffer to get this.

[Jake]

So I found out yesterday that my library copy of Deep Blue Good-By is missing a ton of pages, like someone just haphazardly went in and tore them out here and there. I dropped by my favorite haunt and they ordered a copy for me, so it looks like I'll be reading other stuff until I can catch up to this. Sucks, because I was REALLY enjoying it.

[Cameron Hughes]

Originally Posted by Jake

So I found out yesterday that my library copy of Deep Blue Good-By is missing a ton of pages, like someone just haphazardly went in and tore them out here and there. I dropped by my favorite haunt and they ordered a copy for me, so it looks like I'll be reading other stuff until I can catch up to this. Sucks, because I was REALLY enjoying it.

You know Lawrence Block can often be found there, right?

[Cameron Hughes]

Originally Posted by Cameron Hughes

You know Lawrence Block can often be found there, right?

Edit: My bad, I'm thinking of Otto Penzler's store in Manhattan. Mixed up the name.

[Phil]

I was struck by how small the story in The Deep Blue Good-By is (in the context of "They're going to make a franchise with Leo DiCaprio out of this?", at any rate). It's a small, intimate kind of detective story, full of little character moments and the kinds of sidebars that get whacked right out of film adaptations. Can definitely see what Paul McCartney was saying about the "tropical" parts of Casino Royale feeling the most like a Travis McGee film.

[Jake]

Yeah, I got to the part with Lois which was just heartbreaking yet really, really good and kind of an interesting character moment for McGee. Mystery Bookstore just got my copy of The Deep Blue Good-By in, so I'm gonna grab it on Monday and finish it up.

[Paul McCartney]

I love how the villain's grand scheme is to invite a nerdy 15 year old girl and her friends on a cruise, and then coerce her friends to bully her so intensely that it breaks her spirit. So small-scale, but just so nasty.

You may want to skip NIGHTMARE IN PINK, Phil. I genuinely fear for your attempts to get through the series chronologically. It's the turd of the series.

[Misfit]

I'm a little over halfway through Nightmare in Pink. Nothing's, you know, happened yet, but it's kind of fun to noodle around New York high society with McGee.

Also just got through watching Darker than Amber, too (Thanks, Phil!). It's an interesting not-quite success, but I would have really liked to see Taylor get another chance at the role.

[Phil]

Taylor's good, isn't he? I read a book and a half so far with him elbowing Jon Hamm out of the frame as McGee.

[Misfit]

The first time I read The Deep Blue Good-By was in high school. I kept picturing McGee as a late-70's era Jimmy Buffett.