Metatextual Horror Movies

[RathBandu]

So I watched The Hills Run Red last night, and really enjoyed it, weak middle section aside. I'm an easy mark for anything that creates a world of fictional films, etc. and have been interested in looking at some more horror movies that comment on the genre like this one. I've seen Behind The Mask and Scream and Cigarette Burns, and while I liked them both, I wasn't wowed by them -- although of the three I mentioned, Behind the Mask is the best -- and was wondering if you guys know of any others in this sub-genre.

[Ryan S~]

Do we wanna include that weird Nightmare on Elm Street movie that was about the making of a Nightmare movie?

[Sebastian OB]

I also watched THE HILLS RUN RED last night, and also enjoyed it. I'd go as far as to say it was my favorite take on the meta horror thing thus far.

APRIL FOOL'S DAY is sort of the proto-SCREAM movie. It's really remarkably ahead of it's time. I don't really love it or anything, but perhaps worth a watch if you're interested in this sub-genre.

There's also FADE TO BLACK and POPCORN which are horror movies about movies, but I don't know if they'd qualify as "meta". I think there was one that came out recently called MIDNIGHT MOVIE, but I can't vouch for it.

[Andre Dellamorte]

You also then have DEMONS, and - to a certain extent - The RING.

[RathBandu]

Originally Posted by Sebastian OB

I also watched THE HILLS RUN RED last night, and also enjoyed it. I'd go as far as to say it was my favorite take on the meta horror thing thus far.

I had some major problems with it -- that middle section really drags, the lead is a giant black hole of talent, and the ending is straight up ripped from IN THE MOUTH OF MADNESS -- but everything from after Babyface kills the rednecks is very, very strong. And the last 20 minutes are basically a ride on the William Sadler crazy train, which is always entertaining and he really does a great job. ("Almost thirteen.")

I'd forgotten about New Nightmare, Ryan. I really like that one a lot. I'm not a big horror/slasher guy, but Nightmare/Freddy are definitely my favorite of the icons.

[DARKMITE8]

Gremlins 2

[Hair-Metal Hero]

Masters of Horror: John Carpenter's "Cigarette Burns"

[Mattioli]

Originally Posted by Hair-Metal Hero

Masters of Horror: John Carpenter's "Cigarette Burns"

It's like reading is fundamental or something.

Rath, I don't know if you're still watching "Supernatural" (yeah, here I go again), but the writers have been doing some crazy meta stuff. Not only do we have an alcoholic writer who's been writing novels based on the Winchester boys' adventures because he's the Prophet Chuck, but we have acknowledgement (vis-a-vis the novels) of the show's insane online fanbase. In one recent episode, the Prophet Chuck sends a nutty "Supernatural" slash-fic writer to deliver a prophecy to Sam and Dean. It's been a blast so far.

[RathBandu]

The last full episode of Supernatural I saw was the one about the writer/prophet. Pretty good stuff. I'm probably about six or seven episodes behind on the show, though.

[Peter Judson]

I don't know if this counts but Dario Argento's Tenebre has some of this I think. As does his Opera. Then Blade in the Dark (by Lamberto Bava who also did Demons). Hmmmm, Sebastian mentioned this (reading IS fundamental) but Popcorn doesn't get enough love. Oh, and Joe Dante's Matinee (though I don't think of that as horror).

[Jonathan Banks is my hero]

On a certain level any of the "Vs." movies are meta (FVJ, AVP, etc).

[DARKMITE8]

SEED OF CHUCKY (knocking up Jennifer Tilly)? Stephen King's IT (a "real" monster using the visage of famous Movie Monsters etc to scare kids)? MONSTER SQUAD (the movie monsters are "real"!)? CECIL B DEMENTED (not technically horror perhaps)?

Originally Posted by Mattioli

It's like reading is fundamental or something.

Rath, I don't know if you're still watching "Supernatural" (yeah, here I go again), but the writers have been doing some crazy meta stuff. Not only do we have an alcoholic writer who's been writing novels based on the Winchester boys' adventures because he's the Prophet Chuck, but we have acknowledgement (vis-a-vis the novels) of the show's insane online fanbase. In one recent episode, the Prophet Chuck sends a nutty "Supernatural" slash-fic writer to deliver a prophecy to Sam and Dean. It's been a blast so far.

Not to mention the awesome B&W Monster Mash homage ep ("Monster Movie").

[Ratty]

To a small degree, Return of the Living Dead has some meta-commentary on Romero's Night. "You mean the movie LIED?"

[Ryan S~]

How'd we forget Shadow of the Vampire?

[DARKMITE8]

Originally Posted by Ryan S~

How'd we forget Shadow of the Vampire?

Ooh. Good one.

The revenge-on-the-critic THEATER OF BLOOD (and the non-horror LADY IN THE WATER)? A stretch.

TALES FROM THE CRYPT series?

Winking at the audience: FUNNY GAMES and DEATH PROOF?

I may be pushing the boundaries of the meta-textual definition. What about the mocku-mentary stuff (AMERICAN ZOMBIE), found footage flicks, or genre satire (LOST SKELETON)? Do any of those approach "meta-textual"?

[Peter Judson]

Don't mention Lady in the Water. Ever. Again.

[DARKMITE8]

I'm a fan of when characters sing/whistle/hum the movie or show's theme. SEE:
WITCHES OF EASTWICK
CRANK 2
CASTLE (TV series)

Not a "horror" flick per se (although Death is a main character)... Bergman's THE SEVENTH SEAL.

The unreliable narration of HIGH TENSION and FRAILTY can be seen as sort of a narrow-subset of meta-fiction, no?

[Bartleby_Scriven]

There's that scene in The Devil's Rejects when the critic acknowledges that Spaulding & co. are named after Groucho Marx characters, and the Sheriff doesn't give a shit (speaking for Zombie's take on critics).

[Peter Judson]

Peter Bogdonavich's Targets with Boris Karloff. Simply fantastic. And an early example of this form.

[Dross]

Um, The Scream trilogy?

[Xagarath Ankor]

Peeping Tom is a pretty clear commentary on the audience.

[JGButler]

2004's THE LAST HORROR MOVIE might be a good candidate. Starts out with generic campy b-horror "goodness" then cuts to home video of some dude murdering the shit out of people, talking about his life, telling his story, murdering more people, existentialism, murder, humor, murder then the revelation that the way he picks these people is that they rent this movie from the video store - somehow he uses that to track them. They take it home, watch his entire confession, then he kills them and adds them to the tape. I've only seen it once and that was in 2004, so I can't really remember if it's any good or not, but I remember thinking it was at least clever, if nothing else.

[Fat Elvis]

I thought The Hills Run Red was garbage.

However, Fade To Black was indeed awesome.

There's yer metatex king.

[Andre Dellamorte]

Diary of the Dead as well.

[Mattioli]

Originally Posted by Dross

Um, The Scream trilogy?

So, you didn't even bother to read the thread before posting, huh?

[Peter Judson]

This isn't a film but it may apply. Back in the 80s-90s there was a horror anthology edited by David Schow called Silver Scream (I know, right?). It dealt with film and genre literature. There's some really good stuff and one story in particular always gave me the feeling Drew McWeeny read this before Cigarette Burns. Well worth checking out. It should be available used somewhere.

Edited to add: And Joe R. Landsdale's Drive-In is all kinds of wonderful in this little subgenre. Shit Joe R. Landsdale is just wonderful. Read him.

[BrundleFlyboy]

Not sure if it strictly belongs in here but just thought of the not-so-subtle part of 'Diary Of The Dead' where the crap 'Mummy' movie they are shooting at the start y'know, like, contrasts with the bit at the end where he films her being chased by the zombie and it's really similar to the crap 'Mummy' movie beacuse the zombie moves like the mummy at the start only the difference is that the crap 'Mummy' movie isn't real but the zombies are 'real' in the crap 'Diary Of The Dead'

Clear?

[Peter Judson]

You just gave me a nose bleed. Good morning, Chud.

[LazerRanger]

Thanks for this thread man, I'm actually in the middle of writing a insanely (kind of scared I've bitten off more than I can chew) metatextual Horror script so I'll check out each and every one of the movies suggested.

[BrundleFlyboy]

Sorry Peter, hope you managed to wipe it all up...dried blood is a fucker to get out once it settles between the keys.

Cheers for the heads up on the book front tho'...I must admit, I don't read nearly enough Horror these days. Also now gonna have to get meself a copy of 'Targets'; been hearing good things about that film for ages now.

[BobClark]

Originally Posted by Andre Dellamorte

DEMONS

One of the all time greats. If the retarded term Spook-A-Blast ever catches on, this will be a quintessential example.
It's not metatextual in a cerebral way. More of a William Castle way, specifically The Tingler (or the moviehouse scene in The Blob). Of course it works best in a theater. For the same idea applied to televison, see Demons 2. But the sequel is a rehash and while it's good, it doesn't have the same charm as the original.

[BrundleFlyboy]

Demons 2 lacks the grue!

[Straxboy - An Anthony Hickox Film]

Bigas Luna's Anguish has the monopoly on deeply, deeply weird metatextual film-within-a-film, noodle-baking horror thrills. Plus Michael Lerner *and* Tangina from Poltergeist. It's, like, almost the perfect movie or something.

Also read: Flicker and Throat Sprockets.

[Peter Judson]

Originally Posted by Straxboy - An Anthony Hickox Film

Bigas Luna's Anguish has the monopoly on deeply, deeply weird metatextual film-within-a-film, noodle-baking horror thrills. Plus Michael Lerner *and* Tangina from Poltergeist. It's, like, almost the perfect movie or something.

Also read: Flicker and Throat Sprockets.

Good call! I love Anguish. "The eyes of the city are mine!"

[JPL]

Originally Posted by Peter Judson

This isn't a film but it may apply. Back in the 80s-90s there was a horror anthology edited by David Schow called Silver Scream (I know, right?). It dealt with film and genre literature. There's some really good stuff and one story in particular always gave me the feeling Drew McWeeny read this before Cigarette Burns. Well worth checking out. It should be available used somewhere.

If you don't want to hunt down a used copy, "Silver Scream" is going to be reprinted in the near future by Babbage Press.

http://www.babbagepress.com/html/schow.html

It hasn't been mentioned yet, but I think I, Madman would fit well in the metahorror subgenre.

[Disciple_72]

Body Double

Identity

Lucio Fulci's A Cat In the Brain

Uh... My Name is Bruce?

[DARKMITE8]

Originally Posted by Disciple_72

Uh... My Name is Bruce?

Now yer talkin'...