Chewer Teetotalers

[DaveB]

Originally Posted by Matt Turner

I realize that the discussion in here has kind of morphed away from what Phil originally intended, but I thought I'd throw out my own story.

I'm one of those that doesn't drink, never intends to drink and hasn't had more than a sip of alcohol at a time. There are a lot of reasons for this, many of which have been mentioned by others. It's a combination of the taste, health, money and a fear of addiction.

The taste is one of the bigger deterrents. I'm with Belethedheliel on the taste. I can't tell you how many times my or my wife's friends have told me to try a certain drink because "you can't even taste the alcohol." Trust me, to someone that doesn't drink, it is impossible to make a drink where you can't taste the alcohol. It has a stronger taste than just about anything else you could ever put in a mixed cocktail, and an odor to match. People that drink regularly forget how strong it is because they become accustomed to it. I've never had an alcoholic beverage I could even remotely stomach.

This makes sense to me.

The "you can't even taste the alcohol" method of attempting to get someone to drink puts such a huge priority on the "getting fucked up" aspect of alcohol. If you're not interested in that aspect of it, why would you want something that doesn't taste like it's supposed to taste (i.e., why drink something with rum in it if you don't like rum and don't want to get drunk?).

But then I think most well-adjusted drinkers drink alcohol not simply because it's an intoxicant, but because they've acquired a specific taste for the drink that nothing else quite delivers. For instance, because wine has been a part of civilization for so long, its makers have had centuries to develop their products, creating a myriad of types, each with their own flavors and nuances. There's a specificity to wine that you get in few other drinks (tea may be the only exception to that, and, as far as beverages go, I'm dubious of anyone who claims that he drinks alcohol in order to expand his range of life experiences, but has only tried Lipton).

Health and money are minor reasons. Alcoholic drinks can be quite expensive. My wife drinks on occasion and when she does when we go out to restaurants, the bills jump noticeably.

Too true, and I'm usually the one to blame for the higher dining bill when my wife and I go out. But if it's Italian, I'm relatively helpless. Fact: certain foods just go better with wine.

Initially, and still to a large degree, my resolute decision to never drink was because pretty much every single member of my family has had a controlled substance problem at one point in their life. Addiction seems to run in my family and I saw how it hurt my family growing up. I made a concious decision as a kid in junior high that I would never allow alcohol or drugs to bring me down. Is that a fear of addiction? Sure it is. I don't have a problem admitting to that. And I don't think it is a bad thing, even if it makes me a fag in some people's eyes.

Hope you don't mind me using this as a jumping-off point, since I'm not slamming your reasoning, but I wonder if the dangers of inherited alcoholism are less discussed in Europe. I know a number of people who don't drink (or drink infrequently) because they believe that they'll be more inclined to become alcoholics due to family members with drinking problems. I wonder if this is related to that specifically American shame/fetish for alcohol that seems to imbue it with almost magical powers.

[Diva]

Originally Posted by Ken Savage

How old where you when you tried alcohol.

I've been told I've liked the taste since I was a kid. Supposedly at age 5, I would run around and take sips out of whatever cup was sitting around at family/holiday gatherings. For my family, that meant wine, gin or scotch.

Not sure exactly when I turned, but I was very anti-alcohol for most of middle and high school. My mom was going through a dark period and was noticeably drunk or high during my teen years. I recall pouring out her beer every night and getting in screaming matches when she'd come home and she'd find her booze gone. That said, I'd have a beer or two at high school parties but I never got shitfaced. I did have quite the booze-filled trip to Cancun when I graduated high school though.

Enter college. Moving from a backwards, small town in Florida to the Big Apple with no parental supervision... party on, Wayne! Once I started dating a fraternity guy (yea, I know), drinking became a weekly thing. Not to mention I was active in Varsity athletics and team bonding meant drinking after games or on away game trips. But even with all this, my alcohol intake was not too excessive and I stuck mostly to beer and rum/tequila (neither of which I have any affinity for).

Junior year in college I started working for a community activist group, which I continued working at for close to 10 years after I graduated college. Being a not-for-profit, the way they kept you around since the pay was abysmal was by providing massive amounts of alcohol and a family of sorts. You'd work 16 hour days and then go unwind at the bar EVERY night. During the summers when I helped run the canvass, I subsisted on one meal a day and a crap load of beer and pizza. Over the years, beer turned to gin and whiskey. Many of my former coworkers are close friends to this day.

These days, I'm a doctoral student so my schedule is flexible. I have several friends who are bartenders, so I often visit them at their shifts. I play softball on two different teams and we drink after each game. Same with the volleyball team. And weekend socializing inevitable involves a bar, club, pool hall, or house party. Add people's birthdays, school or work events, and various weddings/baby showers/holidays, there are some months where I'm drinking every day. That said, I also go months without touching a drink. Depends on the time of year.

My current schedule involves drinks after volleyball (Wed), softball (Tues or Thurs), Fri (socializing), Sat (softball/socializing) and occasionally Sun or Mon (friends bartend). Favorite liquor is Jameson, but a Tanquery and Tonic isn't too far away. Been on quite a whiskey kick since my friend started bartending at Whiskey Town. They've got quite the selection and often let me try them all for free.

Tonight after the softball game we are going to a bar that gives a plate of 20 chicken wings for free with the purchase of two pitchers of beer. Good times. Hopefully we'll be celebrating a win.

[Diva]

Originally Posted by DaveB

Hope you don't mind me using this as a jumping-off point, since I'm not slamming your reasoning, but I wonder if the dangers of inherited alcoholism are less discussed in Europe. I know a number of people who don't drink (or drink infrequently) because they believe that they'll be more inclined to become alcoholics due to family members with drinking problems. I wonder if this is related to that specifically American shame/fetish for alcohol that seems to imbue it with almost magical powers.

If Matt's anywhere close to my age, the brain washing of M.A.D.D. is ever present.

[Greg David]

The whole "alcoholism is a disease" (and an inherited one) thing is a nice little invention that supposedly helps alcoholics to recovery (although I have my doubts that it's a good approach). But unfortunately, it's a pretty fucked up device when it comes to helping understand it. It really doesn't make any sense. If the children of alcoholics are more likely to become alcoholics, doesn't that sound more like a social cause and effect than a physical one? Children tend to follow the example of their parents.

Now on the other hand, there are individual factors. Some people are just more prone to addiction than others. My mother is a raging alcoholic, but I've always had the kind of personality that rejects addiction to anything. Her problem was not a problem for me. I really think this whole inherited addiction thing has become something of an urban myth that's now taken as fact. Kind of like the "fact" that you can't put metal in a microwave. Everybody just knows it by default.

I have to agree with the point about getting people to try alcohol by recommending things where "you can't taste the alcohol". That really does lay the priority on painlessly getting drunk. I doubt that somebody who's avoided alcohol all his life is really looking for that.

[Keith F]

Alcoholism/Addiction is not a disease, it's a sickness. Just don't tell that to twelve steppers or they'll have your head.

[Doc Happenin]

Diva, back up for a moment...

Originally Posted by Diva

Tonight after the softball game we are going to a bar that gives a plate of 20 chicken wings for free with the purchase of two pitchers of beer. Good times. Hopefully we'll be celebrating a win.

Oh my god, where?

[Spike Marshall]

Originally Posted by Greg David

I really think this whole inherited addiction thing has become something of an urban myth that's now taken as fact. Kind of like the "fact" that you can't put metal in a microwave. Everybody just knows it by default.

Wait, so putting metal into a microwave doesn't blow it up?

I gotta go test this.

[DaveB]

Originally Posted by Spike Marshall

Wait, so putting metal into a microwave doesn't blow it up?

I gotta go test this.

Well, you can put the metal in the microwave; just don't push any buttons.

[Spike Marshall]

Yeah, explosions were not had by all. Sparkiness and scorching however RSVPed like motherfuckers.

[DaveB]

Originally Posted by Spike Marshall

Yeah, explosions were not had by all. Sparkiness and scorching however RSVPed like motherfuckers.

Please tell me that you didn't actually just try this...

[Spike Marshall]

It seemed like a good idea at the time. Plus I've never used the microwave before.

[Doc Happenin]

Originally Posted by Spike Marshall

Plus I've never used the microwave before.

The hell? Though I do appreciate your contribution to science.

[Spike Marshall]

I was given one by my mother when I left home. I've literally never used the thing. Have no use for it.

[BadlyDrawnBagel]

I started drinking freshman year of High School. I attended a regional catholic school in North Jersey and had a very long bus ride to and from, so we would pass the time by pounding screwdrivers or Jack and cokes. By the middle of the year, it was just straight vodka or Jack. Imagine, a bus full of shitfaced 14 and 15 year olds stumbling out of the bus as we arrived at school to begin our day. Viva private school education!

[Chris Miller]

Originally Posted by Spike Marshall

It seemed like a good idea at the time. Plus I've never used the microwave before.

This blows my mind more than anyone not drinking. I have heard, though, that some microwaves are metal safe now.

[Diva]

Originally Posted by Doc Happenin

Diva, back up for a moment...

Oh my god, where?

http://mcaleerspub.com/

6-0 shut out. Beer and wings. Seriously, what's better than this?

[Matt Turner]

Originally Posted by Diva

If Matt's anywhere close to my age, the brain washing of M.A.D.D. is ever present.

I'm 28, but I don't really remember MADD being all that prominent a force growing up. I was aware of it, but I just remember commercials mostly. I do, however, remember DARE being very much present throughout my early schooling years. I think they focused more, or perhaps entirely, on the illegal drug aspect of controlled substances but they had assemblies dedicated to their messages just about every year throughout junior high and kids wore their T-shirts to school. They were everywhere.

And to clarify, I don't fear addiction to alcohol because I'm worried that I got The Gene from my family. More that my family has a history of addiction, and I know enough about myself to know I got a little bit of that in me because I do have an addictive personality. I have a terrible addiction to Mountain Dew (drink 3-4 cans a day -- I'm sure Phil cringed reading that). So rather than test my resolve when it comes to resisting alcohol once I've developed a taste, I'll just stay away and remove the possibility.

[Spike Marshall]

Originally Posted by Chris Miller

This blows my mind more than anyone not drinking. I have heard, though, that some microwaves are metal safe now.

Just to confirm it's my abject stupidity that blows your mind and not the fact that I've never used a microwave.

[Chris Miller]

Originally Posted by Spike Marshall

Just to confirm it's my abject stupidity that blows your mind and not the fact that I've never used a microwave.

No, it's the never used the microwave part. I could understand "don't use it often", but not "never used", unless you live in a 3rd world country, or are too short to reach the buttons.

[Spike Marshall]

I'm not a fan of ready meals and I cook most of my meals from fresh. One of the benefits of living in a community with a traditional butcher, baker and grocer.

[Chris Miller]

It's certainly a healthier approach, I'm just baffled that in all your years on the planet you've never used one once.

[IggytheBorg]

Originally Posted by Matt Turner

I'm 28, but I don't really remember MADD being all that prominent a force growing up. I was aware of it, but I just remember commercials mostly.

I think what MADD did better than any other such group, is lobby the government. That's why the only influence most of us can directly remember them having on us was their commercials, because they weren't bothering so much with us kids as they were with the lawmakers who passed the laws that affected us and drinking. They were instrumental in the toughening of DWI laws (both the fact that the penalties are ridiculously stiff, and that there's virtually no defense to them), for instance. I'm not sure if they've been around long enough to have had the same effect on the drinking age laws, but wouldn't be surprised to find they did.

[Diva]

I recall the commercials being ever present, but I also recall having to attend several all-school meetings in the auditorium where M.A.D.D./S.A.D.D. folks would come and talk to us about the dangers of alcohol.


On an unrelated subject, Bob Dylan via Shia LaDouche wasts you to get stoned!