SOUTHLAND TALES discussion.

[TheMantis]

What a mess. The perfect example of trying too hard.

[Tomas Mejor]

You really nailed it. Great review!

[LatinoInferno]

Man, the badness of SOUTHLAND TALES has been so incredibly hyped up....how can it match it?

Now if it did, I would be incredibly fuckin impressed.

HIGHLANDER 2: THE QUICKENING impressed.

[Jonathan]

Originally Posted by LatinoInferno

HIGHLANDER 2: THE QUICKENING impressed.

That may be the first time impressed was used in conjunction with Highlander 2 ever.

[LatinoInferno]

Originally Posted by Jakespeare

That may be the first time impressed was used in conjunction with Highlander 2 ever.

*applause*

"I would like to thank my parents, my homeys on the Net, and the filmmakers who had the fucking audacity to respect that HIGHLANDER fan audience by making a movie that told them that their movie never happened. Thank you!"

*Cue Music*

[Tarkovsky]

I think it's misunderstood, but that probably sounds pretentious. It's a mess, but only a mess a good filmmaker can really make. I know that's a quote from somewhere, I'm just not sure where (haven't read anything about Southland). It's sad that bits and pieces of reviews I've read are somehow embedded in my way of writing. Personally, I liked it.

[Jared Melton]

What in the fuck is going on in here?

[LatinoInferno]

Originally Posted by Tarkovsky

I think it's misunderstood, but that probably sounds pretentious. It's a mess, but only a mess a good filmmaker can really make. I know that's a quote from somewhere, I'm just not sure where (haven't read anything about Southland). It's sad that bits and pieces of reviews I've read are somehow embedded in my way of writing. Personally, I liked it.

The common movie compared to SOUTHLAND is Michael Cimino's HEAVEN'S GATE, which is sorta annoying.

Why? The failure with GATE is that nobody at United Artists was willing to take the purse away from Cimino. After DEER HUNTER, they basically gave him carte blanche....and got fucked hard for it.

I say that because other wise, from the Director's Cut I saw....I like it. Its a mess, but an ambitious mess with alot of good quality, from someone who should have thought it through back in the scriptwriting process instead of adding more and more and more during production*, and creating an inconsistent as hell movie.

"The problem with our generation was that we all wanted to be the next David Lean...and we all failed." - Steven Spielberg

But to compare GATE with SOUTHLAND, from what I hear...I disagree. Did SOUTHLAND bankrupt Sony? Did it end the Rock's movie career? No. Was it a complete utter bomb this side of Hiroshima like GATE was? Maybe, but probably not.

Again, SOUTHLAND just sounds like a movie that didn't work, further trimming/reshooting, it still didn't work, a lose lose situation.

Or maybe SOUTHLAND is good, hell if I know. I need to see it.

*=Including the whole Harvard opening deal that everyone knows about already.

[Andre Dellamorte]

The comparison is that both had a success, got the keys to the kingdom, and fuck the pooch because they're left their own devices because they're viewed as "geniuses." The resulting film is then viewed as a self-indulgent mess.

[LatinoInferno]

Originally Posted by Andre Dellamorte

The comparison is that both had a success, got the keys to the kingdom, and fuck the pooch because they're left their own devices because they're viewed as "geniuses." The resulting film is then viewed as a self-indulgent mess.

In that context......sounds about right.

[Cogs of Fate]

I'm not 100% sure this thread is destined to be about actual discussion of Southland Tales, but since I just saw it I'll go ahead and say that if you haven't seen it... yes it's as bad as you've heard.

But it's bad in a strangely compelling way. I kept on watching just to see in what new way it would be bad next. It kept surprising, so props I suppose.

Entertaining if you've got a few hours you don't care about losing, but definitely be expecting a just massive piece of shit (except for that creepy version of the National Anthem, that was sweet)

[LatinoInferno]

So this is the new HIGHLANDER 2: THE QUICKENING after all.

Bitchin.

[Tarkovsky]

Heaven's Gate ruined Cimino's career. He went on to make the awful Godfather knock off The Sicilian (interesting story about that one, actually), Desperate Hours, and The Sun Chaser, all of which were mediocre at best. Had Heaven's Gate succeeded, better scripts would likely of come his way, and he would of been allowed to make something closer to the quality of The Deer Hunter. Kelly is at least following this up closely with the Matheson adaptation The Box, and will hopefully just start making films a bit more inside the studio system of control. Donnie Darko was excellent, but I think he's best cut out as a Hollywood director.

[Dean Stockwell]

Originally Posted by LatinoInferno

So this is the new HIGHLANDER 2: THE QUICKENING after all.

Bitchin.

What the fuck are you talking about in any thread.

[LatinoInferno]

Originally Posted by Dean Stockwell

What the fuck are you talking about in any thread.

HIGHLANDER 2: THE QUICKENING - Ultra-disaster of a bad movie that meets the hype, and defies expectations.

SOUTHLAND TALES - Ditto.

Smoke 'em if you got 'em.

[LatinoInferno]

Originally Posted by Tarkovsky

Heaven's Gate ruined Cimino's career. He went on to make the awful Godfather knock off The Sicilian (interesting story about that one, actually), Desperate Hours, and The Sun Chaser, all of which were mediocre at best. Had Heaven's Gate succeeded, better scripts would likely of come his way, and he would of been allowed to make something closer to the quality of The Deer Hunter. Kelly is at least following this up closely with the Matheson adaptation The Box, and will hopefully just start making films a bit more inside the studio system of control. Donnie Darko was excellent, but I think he's best cut out as a Hollywood director.

Well, we'll have to see with Kelly.

As for Cimino...those movies are a waste of time, but I did really like YEAR OF THE DRAGON.

[Tarkovsky]

Yeah. Apparently Cimono's got one in production with the guy who wrote Moscow Chill, one of the films I absolutely am dying to see, and something that looks absolutely unique yet fantastic. So I'll withhold my thoughts on his future.

[Banandar]

Not much to say for my part.

I saw it, and was struck not by how bad the movie itself was, but how poorly constructed the narrative is.

It can't be appreciated on a "so bad it's good" level, or even a "so bad it's bad" level. Because honestly, it's neither. It's a film that talks and talks and talks about what it's about, not sure if it even knows the answer. Then weird things happen at the end and you don't care because a) nothing before it has prepared you to understand it and b) what actually does happen in the end isn't even interesting to begin with.

Is it a crime against humanity? No. Mandy Moore's fun to gawk at. I can always listen to Christopher Lambert speak in that weird voice of his. The music is occasionally decent, and the atmosphere of the film is appealing. The first shot of the film with Abilene being nuked is excellent, but it doesn't matter because the film exists as nothing more than abstract masturbation.

It could have been interesting I guess. For some people there will be an allure to the film based on casting alone, but believe the critics when they tell you there's nothing alluring about it. They're not given anything to do anyway.

[cyberwaste]

Indeed. Southland Tales is two and a half hours of Richard Kelly taking a shit in your ears and mind. The film's narrative is muddled as fuck. I've heard many say it is an interesting failure from a good film maker, to that I say "Maybe. But holy fuck I can't believe I just spent over 2 hrs watching this irritatingly shit film."

Devin sums it up best in his review. There really isn't much more to discuss. Kelly just mish mashed alot of subjects he found interesting, tried and failed to emulate many aspects of storytelling from writers ((Dick? Pynchon?) and other film makers (Lynch), wrote tons of pretentious and utterly stupid dialogue, and was allowed to run amok. It's insane that the movie had something like 10 producers and none had the balls to be like, "Wtf, mate? Do you even know wtf this movie is about?" As Devin and others have mentioned, Kelly himself didn't know what the fuck his movie was getting at either.

Kelly says to watch the film more than once to see 'the puzzle' and piece it together. I don't see any sort of puzzle in this that's worth figuring out even if there was there's no way in fuck I'd sit through it again.

Now, I don't hate this film. I don't even dislike it. I 'nothing' it.
The best part of the film is at the end when the entire flaky ass universe disappears into nothingness (the 4th dimension? who cares?).

Positive aspects? I actually liked the acting from the Rock, Stiffler, and Justin Timberlake. Or perhaps... their ability to act out such one dimensional characters, speak such silly dialogue, and not look retarded. The film also has a pretty interesting look to it and is pretty well shot.

Pretty, dumb, full of hot air, and ultimately not satisfying. I watched this film and afterwards had to watch Haneke's The Piano Teacher in an attempt to cleanse my mind and soul of ST. Now The Piano Teacher on the other hand...

[HarleyQuinn22]

This movie is the cinemtic equivalent to diarrhea. Just when you think the shitstorm is over and you get up from the toilet to wipe your ass, another torrent of feces comes spurting out. I couldn't believe that ANY studio would dare release a film so incoherent, so nonsensical, so utterly banal, pointless, and STUPID as this.

[Tieman]

Wow, what a convoluted mess of a movie. I can't imagine reading the prequel comics would do anything to clarify this clusterfuck. Most of the acting was awful (sometimes it seemed intentional), and I have to wonder who's bright idea it was to stop the movie every 20 minutes or so for a drug-induced music video.

I enjoyed Donnie Darko, but if this is the caliber of work Kelly is going to produce from now on, he should really limit himself to MTV.

Plus, the stupid Netflix envelope lists the running time as 1hr. 40min. instead of the correct time of FOREVER.

[cyberwaste]

Why the hell did fanboys wet themselves at whatever comic con where Kelly showed the storyboards for that lame and pointless commercial where two cars fuck like elephants or some such shit? This movie is still taking a shit on my soul 24hrs after viewing it. Gah!

[Ambler]

So I continue to stay far, far, far away from this movie.

And Cimino was given carte blanche on Heaven's Gate because he earned it with Deer Hunter...a brilliant movie that he won an oscar for.

Donnie Dark is not a brilliant movie and Kelly is not a brilliant filmmaker...he fucks up his own movies when given the chance (DD director's cut), and doesn't even understand them to begin with (ST). I continue to tread around his work with caution.

[Patrick Ripoll]

This movie was hysterical and I'd reccomend it to anyone with a sense of humor.

[HarleyQuinn22]

Originally Posted by Tieman

Plus, the stupid Netflix envelope lists the running time as 1hr. 40min. instead of the correct time of FOREVER.

Oh GOD, the runtime makes it even worse. 90 minutes of shit is somewhat bearable. This movie is cruel and unusual punishment. This is the shit that will be shown to terrorists at Guantanamo Bay to break their spirit. Waterboarding ain't got SHIT on this movie.

[Raspberry Leper]

Originally Posted by Tieman

Plus, the stupid Netflix envelope lists the running time as 1hr. 40min. instead of the correct time of FOREVER.

That pissed me way more than it should have. This is a movie you don't so much watch as you do endure. As the timer on my DVD player climbed closer and closer to the sweet relief I knew 1:40:00 would be, I sensed light at the end of the tunnel was approaching. I could feel warmth creeping back into my body. Furtive glances at the timer resulted in me getting getting more and more perplexed. Around 1:46:30 or so I started internetting like crazy trying to pinpoint when I could have my like back. Few things have scared me as much as one listed running time I found that was 160 or so minutes. Oh no, is there still an hour left? I began to shake a little as my breathing became shallow. A couple of Seann William Scott's in a van later, it was over.

I didn't much care for the film.

[Sean Bateman]

The movie has more problems than just about anything I've seen, but I enjoyed it both times I saw it in the theater. I liked the audacity of the piece. I loved Timberlake's random musical scene in the middle. I loved the tone of the last twenty minutes. I loved Moby's Vangelis like score. I can honestly say I've never seen anything like it. As I've said before, somewhere someone has a better way of mixing Robocop and Magnolia with a dash of Lynch, but Kelly has ruined that idea for all time.

[ildevansmack]

Originally Posted by Sean Bateman

mixing Robocop and Magnolia with a dash of Lynch

Now I got watch this to see how that’s even attempted.

[Jake]

Morbid curiosity rising...

[Supremo]

I have to say, I'd rather see an ambitious failure like this than most regular old predictable failures. You can tell that Kelly has ideas, he just has far too many of them and doesn't know how to communicate any one of them with the audience. The movie is pretty terrible, but it was far too bizarre for me to ever find it boring.

[MikeShaynePI]

Originally Posted by Patrick Ripoll

This movie was hysterical and I'd reccomend it to anyone with a sense of humor.

I'd recommend your face to the fist of anyone you get to watch this shit.

[dudalb]

I think Kelly has about one film left to show he is not a one hit wonder.
I think the problem is that Kelly got the idea from the sucess of Donnie Darko that he is a freaking genius whose every idea and concept is brilliant, and all self criticism..something necessary to every artist ..went out the window.
The Discipline to look at your own ideas with a demanding eye and examine them closely,no matter how brilliant they seem at first,and ruthlessly throw them out if found wanting is something that Kelly totally lacks.
Until he learns this discipline, he is probably better off working with a producer who can tell him when an idea of his is really fucked up.

[cyberwaste]

I just checked out Kelly's myspace page and was blown away by the fuckin' multitude of ppl saying "ST Rules!!"... did I watch the same film as these assholes???? Has anyone seen this more than once? Does it somehow magically turn f-ing brilliant the second time around despite being an interesting turd but turd nonetheless the first time???

[HarleyQuinn22]

Originally Posted by cyberwaste

I just checked out Kelly's myspace page and was blown away by the fuckin' multitude of ppl saying "ST Rules!!"... did I watch the same film as these assholes???? Has anyone seen this more than once? Does it somehow magically turn f-ing brilliant the second time around despite being an interesting turd but turd nonetheless the first time???

I say this with no sarcasm: I have neither the strength nor wastable time to watch this movie again. Once was more than enough.

[EdHocken]

Originally Posted by cyberwaste

I just checked out Kelly's myspace page and was blown away by the fuckin' multitude of ppl saying "ST Rules!!"... did I watch the same film as these assholes???? Has anyone seen this more than once? Does it somehow magically turn f-ing brilliant the second time around despite being an interesting turd but turd nonetheless the first time???

The Ron Paul supporters had to go somewhere.

[LatinoInferno]

Originally Posted by dudalb

I think the problem is that Kelly got the idea from the sucess of Donnie Darko that he is a freaking genius whose every idea and concept is brilliant, and all self criticism..something necessary to every artist ..went out the window.
The Discipline to look at your own ideas with a demanding eye and examine them closely,no matter how brilliant they seem at first,and ruthlessly throw them out if found wanting is something that Kelly totally lacks.
Until he learns this discipline, he is probably better off working with a producer who can tell him when an idea of his is really fucked up.

And you're absolutely right, though its a tough cookie to pull off.

[dudalb]

Originally Posted by cyberwaste

I just checked out Kelly's myspace page and was blown away by the fuckin' multitude of ppl saying "ST Rules!!"... did I watch the same film as these assholes???? Has anyone seen this more than once? Does it somehow magically turn f-ing brilliant the second time around despite being an interesting turd but turd nonetheless the first time???

It's exactly the same thing on the Richard Kelly/Southland Tales pages at IMDB.
The sad fact is you have a lot of fanboys who made into Kelly into a God after Donny Darko (a film I thought was interesting but flawed) and have invested so much emotion into their worship of Kelly that they cannot admit their God screwed up bigtime.
And they are already using the old,old,tired, "You did not like this film because you are too stupid to understand it" line.

[dudalb]

Originally Posted by LatinoInferno

And you're absolutely right, though its a tough cookie to pull off.

Learning to be a tough critic of yourself is a hard thing to do...very hard,probably..but if you are ever going to do anything worthwhile in film or any other artistic endeavor..hell, I would say in any field at all...it is something you have to learn.
And after suffering through Southland Tales,I would say Kelly has a hell of a lot to learn.

[dreary louse]

Southland Tales makes a lot more sense once you read about the work of this old dead guy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Baudrillard

I don't think the movie was a masterpiece - it's the only half of a story committed to celluloid - but it'll probably be considered in the same breath as Dr. Strangelove.

It's lost on many that Southland Tales is a satire, which happens to the best of the genre. The film takes a two-hour, twenty-minute piss on our information saturated times, by free-associating dozens of subplots, television commercials and news reports like somebody is channel surfing in a parallel universe.

[Cogs of Fate]

Originally Posted by dreary louse

but it'll probably be considered in the same breath as Dr. Strangelove.

Oh wow...

It's lost on many that Southland Tales is a satire, which happens to the best of the genre.

It's not lost on 'anyone' that this is a satire. It hammers that into you from frame one, and never lets up. It would have maybe been less obvious had they just flashed big red words on the screen that said "THIS IS LIKE US BUT FUNNY HAHA" every few seconds.

Your explanations of the plot don't really matter, since they don't actually fix anything that's wrong with the movie (casting, fx, awful writing, awful ideas, etc...).

I'm glad there's a ST fan around, though. That should be fun.

[Patrick Ripoll]

I'm a Southland Tales fan as well. It's hysterical.

[Andrew Eaton]

Truckfucking. Patrick's right - this movie's hysterical.

[Ben Thomas]

My sarcasmometer is way off today.

[Ambler]

Originally Posted by dudalb

I think Kelly has about one film left to show he is not a one hit wonder.

We live in a time of such horrible movies, people cling to just about anything resembling a decent film and make it out to be a masterpiece. DD suffers from this. It's a pretty good movie, but that's about it.

For a comparison, let's take Darren Aronofsky. Pi was pretty good too, but he used the acclaim he got and put his talent to work with a bigger budget and better actors and we got Reqiuem For A Dream, a brilliant film. He proved he was worth all the hoopla.

Kelly took the acclaim he was given, put his "talent" to work on a bigger budget and we got fucking Southland Tales. It kind of proves he wasn't worth all the hoopla to begin with. I think he's an okay writer...a decent director, but not the genius alot of people seem to claim he is. That word is thrown around like Halloween candy nowdays.

[fabfunk]

Couldn't you just think that it's a crazy batshit movie that is neither masterpiece nor disaster? I think it's really unfair to be as close-minded as to berate those that find the movie worth a second look- this isn't fucking "Gigli".

If you have a sense of humor about yourself, half of this mess works. Deliriously.

I'm drunk right now. Look what I'm confessing. I hope you're happy.

[Cogs of Fate]

Sorry if I didn't make it clear, this movie had me fucking enthralled. I will make it a point to show it to others. I love that it exists.

But I love it the way I love "Torque" or "D-War", but that doesn't make it not a complete mess.

Also, wtfabfunk?

[The Wine Drinking Critic]

Originally Posted by Ambler

And Cimino was given carte blanche on Heaven's Gate because he earned it with Deer Hunter...a brilliant movie that he won an oscar for.

This is a quote from an essay at:
http://www.beckerfilms.com/oscars.html

I was curious of your thoughts on it.

"My personal disillusionment with the Academy Awards began in 1978 when "THE DEER HUNTER" won. This was the first film to win that I actively disliked. Admittedly, 1978 is one of the worst years for motion pictures on record, but even still this film seems to have won strictly on a ruse. It was not even in release when it was nominated. It had played one week in L.A. on one screen. It was still not in general release when it won the award. But the word on the street was that it was "serious and important" and, of course, it was 183 minutes long (56 minutes longer than the next longest nominee). Universal Pictures, fearing that they had a very expensive bomb on their hands, hired producer Allan Carr to devise a method of selling this thematically unfocused behemoth of a film. Carr's assumption was that with the serious topic of war and a long running time the film was bound to win Academy Awards just so long as too many people didn't see it and bad-mouth it. He was right and the film won "Best Picture" (as well as four other Oscars)."

[Cogs of Fate]

I have no particular love for The Deer Hunter, either. It's got a few pretty excellent scenes, but it seems like the sort of the movie that a lot of people just sort of assume is "really good" and either they never saw it or don't really remember it very well.

[dreary louse]

The Deer Hunter was mediocre, though I want to say it was crap for all the acclaim still surrounding it.

Southland Tales I would rate an 8.0 out of 10 on the CHUD.com barometer.

Your explanations of the plot don't really matter, since they don't actually fix anything that's wrong with the movie (casting, fx, awful writing, awful ideas, etc...).

I thought the cheesy effects were intentional; this may be stretching things, but just look at the awful fonts used in the film's telecast scenes - in any case, I guess they didn't bother me since the film didn't try to be a visual spectacle (creative camera placement or gorgeous shots have never been Kelly's forte).

I can't fix any problems you have with the movie anyway; if you have your own strict code as to what makes a quality film, Southland Tales certainly botched its evaluation.

I don't believe it's a fantastic fucking unheralded masterpiece to be rediscovered in about fifteen years like 'The Rules of the Game' - but the film is innovating to the medium.

So much of the film thumbs its nose at what's traditionally 'good' that you have to think about why it has actually made you angry.

I saw Pickpocket the other day and I wouldn't be surprised if in its day audiences called the acting wooden and decried how plotless it is.

[Cogs of Fate]

It didn't make me angry. It made me laugh.

Sort of like what you're doing.