Underwhelmed by Evil Dead 2

[Troutio]

Hi all. After seeing all the love for Evil Dead 2 on these boards over the past couple of years, I finally picked it up on DVD at the weekend. I'm sad to say I was somewhat underwhelmed. I know there are people who regard it as the greatest film ever made, and I am not just spoiling for a fight, but it just didn't entertain me that much. Sure, Campbell was entertaining (although awful in the first ten minutes), and the camera work was breathtaking at times, but I found the humour flat, the horror average, and much of the acting downright poor.

I don't know. Maybe I just wasn't in the mood for it. It was obviously made with a lot of love, and I can appreciate that it was visually far ahead of its time. I will also concede that I am not a massive fan of the horror genre - but I would contend that a great movie should stand on its own, without knowledge of the conventions or limitations of its peers. As does The Thing, for instance.

So, genuinely without trolling, could someone explain what it is I'm missing?

[Boys #22: elmie]

Troutio, I agree with you, but you are much more diplomatic than I ....

EVIL DEAD 2 was one of the first horror films I can remember seeing in which I felt a twinge of annoyance ( for lack of a better word ) because of the lack of respect given to the genre: mockery I felt ...

And while I realize that it was not the intention to ridicule an entire beloved genre, EVIL DEAD 2 was the first film in which I felt somewhat disrespected... Why is this filmmaker running from horror ??? ... Certainly, bad films come and bad films go, but SR has some filmmaking chops ... I feel he ( and others like Peter Jackson ) is either copping out or just making fun .... either way, I am not interested ...

The positive side is that is was this period that pushed me into seeking out more serious, ominous, and frankly, more meaningful films ...

.. and if EVIL DEAD 2 isn't your cup of tea, steer clear of the Jim Carey-ishARMY OF DARKNESS ....

[DaveC]

Originally posted by Boys #22: elmie
Troutio, I agree with you, but you are much more diplomatic than I ....

EVIL DEAD 2 was one of the first horror films I can remember seeing in which I felt a twinge of annoyance ( for lack of a better word ) because of the lack of respect given to the genre: mockery I felt ...

And while I realize that it was not the intention to ridicule an entire beloved genre, EVIL DEAD 2 was the first film in which I felt somewhat disrespected... Why is this filmmaker running from horror ??? ... Certainly, bad films come and bad films go, but SR has some filmmaking chops ... I feel he ( and others like Peter Jackson ) is either copping out or just making fun .... either way, I am not interested ...

The positive side is that is was this period that pushed me into seeking out more serious, ominous, and frankly, more meaningful films ...

.. and if EVIL DEAD 2 isn't your cup of tea, steer clear of the Jim Carey-ishARMY OF DARKNESS ....

i think that Raimi totally resepcts the genre and just wanted to inject many other genres into the evil dead films, comedey being one of them.

[thedudeabides]

It's no big secret that Sam Raimi prefers Slapstick or comedy, or as Spiderman shows - comic book action.

In The Evil Dead Companion Raimi clearly states that the only reason they made Evil Dead as their first movie, was to try to cash in on the drive-in circuit and get some cash to make the movies he really wanted to make.

All his early movies were short comedys, with Keystone Cop-type characters and pie fights. Pie fights!

So, I don't think Raimi has actually turned his back on horror...I don't think he's really been an exclusive horror director at all.

He just so happened to make it big with a horror movie, and then made Evil Dead 2 after other disasterous movie making experiences for an easy pay off.

He's a business man, just like anyone else.

We're just lucky that he's made some enjoyable movies.

[Troutio]

Intriguing. I was expecting any negativity about this film to be instantly refuted in this forum. This film has inspired serious, meaningful love in a lot of people whose movie opinions I respect - but the praise so far has been faint at best.

As regards the injection of comedy referred to above - with the notable exception of one or two pieces of slapstick and of manic Campbell mugging, I guess the laughs passed me by. And simply adding another genre into a mix does not in itself make a film any good. The horror element sufferred from a near total abandonment of the art of suspense - early Steadicam shots aside - and from the fact that the most horrific thing (Ash decapitating his grilfriend with a shovel)
happens in the first five minutes. I liked for a while the possibility that it was all in his head - that Campbell was the mad murderer his reflection suggested he might be. Such a scenario could have led to real darkness upon the arrival of the four redshirts at the halfway stage, but it was quietly abandoned without exploration in the scramble to fill the screen with more and more latex.

I didn't hate it - and at times I was in awe - but please guys - tell me where all the love comes from? Is it just that too much time has passed? Did you need to see it at the time for its humour and impact to work?

[Charlie Brigden]

EVIL DEAD II is genius. Pure genius. The funniest horror comedy ever, and just a great, great fucking movie.

I get the feeling you don't like horror movies that aren't completely serious down to the knuckle, Elmie. I'm curious, what are your thoughts on movies like BRIDE OF FRANKENSTEIN and AN AMERICAN WEREWOLF IN LONDON?

[Altar]

Evil Dead II is the only film in the series that I liked. AOD had its moments but at times it had a lot of Power rangers type slapstick that just irritated the crap out of me.

[Charlie Brigden]

You mean Three Stooges-style slapstick, right?

[alice's girl (chucky's ex)]

You're all crazy.
CharlesB is the only one who makes any sense around here.
:o

[Doug]

It should also be noted that Raimi was making a satire of the first Evil Dead. The first film was full of equally absurd moments, but played as straight horror.
I had a strong bad reaction to this when I first saw it in the theater. About a 1/2 hour through I was hooked, however. It's a great study of the fine line between humor and horror. It's also such balls to the wall filmmaking, especially for 1986, that I couldn't help but see it two more times during it's short theatrical run.
Bruce Campbell's peformance, all internet hyperbole aside, is nothing short of fantastic. Few actors can successfully carry the first 40 minutes of a movie all on their own and with little dialogue.
Perhaps it is dated. Perhaps later films like "Dead/Alive" or "Versus" have raised the bar since ED2.
But make no mistake. Evil Dead 2 is highly deserving of it's status as a classic.

[Alice in Wonderland]

"Evil Dead 2" rocks. I agree that it treads the fine line between horror and humour - as well as some laugh out loud funny moments, it's also got some fantastic imagery - the dance the dead girlfriend does, for instance, and Ash's loss of his hand.

Horror and humour are interesting, in that both are meant to be cathartic. They're two great tastes that taste great together.

I think that about PJ's movies, too.

[Troutio]

OK, the fans have shown up. Good. And there you are, proclaiming it as genius. Good also. But I want to know why it is so very good. I thought I'd made some fair criticisms, and whilst it is always refreshing to be told I'm wrong, I was hoping for a more involved take on what makes it so special.

EDIT: Yes, like that from Alice. Help me love this film!

[alice's girl (chucky's ex)]

Originally posted by Alice in Wonderland
"Evil Dead 2" rocks. I agree that it treads the fine line between horror and humour - as well as some laugh out loud funny moments, it's also got some fantastic imagery - the dance the dead girlfriend does, for instance, and Ash's loss of his hand.

Horror and humour are interesting, in that both are meant to be cathartic. They're two great tastes that taste great together.

I think that about PJ's movies, too.

I see all Alices seem to agree on this point.

[liamE]

I love Evil Dead 2.

[Charlie Brigden]

Originally posted by Troutio
OK, the fans have shown up. Good. And there you are, proclaiming it as genius. Good also. But I want to know why it is so very good. I thought I'd made some fair criticisms, and whilst it is always refreshing to be told I'm wrong, I was hoping for a more involved take on what makes it so special.

EDIT: Yes, like that from Alice. Help me love this film!

Ok. It's incredibly funny, it's got some incredibly innovative special effects, the makeup is great, it's very inventive, it has brilliant sound design, wildly cool camerawork, and a virtuoso performance by Campbell.

I have to say, it's less about what we have to say and more about people as a whole. The Evil Dead camps have always been fiercely opposed between those who love them and those who hate them. I don't think there's ever any middle ground, really. I love it because it's an old-fashioned gore film with heaps of comedy and a loving touch that makes me realize how much Raimi loves making movies.

Also, the lamp with the Popeye laugh. Genius!

[bunnymud wants tacos]

ED2 was the first horror movie that I saw where I laughed and was sickened by the gore


It was that coctail that made me fall in love

[Doug]

It's such a visceral experience that it's hard to quantify what makes it so good. Like "Kill Bill", it's an expertly crafted example of a certain subgenre.
Your enjoyment of it hinges on how much you like the genre.

[astro zombie]

Evil Dead 2 is my favourite film in the trilogy, if you want to slam a film for being slap stick and not respecting the genre then take a look at Army Of Darkness....I dont really think you can even call it a horror film to be honest.

[Doug]

Originally posted by astro zombie
Army Of Darkness....I dont really think you can even call it a horror film to be honest.
You're right, it's not.

[poopoodle]

What is the saying about a how to have a great movie? One killer (two?) scene and no bad ones?

Let me add, in addition to Charles B statements, these specific moments that I just love:

When "that thing" in the cellar is mocking them, "you aren't gonna leave me? are you Ash??"

The flying eyeballl into the mouth.

Weird Ash is freakin' out and he sits in the rocking chair. It breaks and the Deer head laughs at him.

"Who's laughing now? WHO"S LAUGHING NOW!!!!"

Of course , the ending.

I could go on...

[Myer's Son]

Question for Troutio:
Did you view Evil Dead 2 before you watched Evil Dead. It's a legit question, becuz I know that my best friend was really upset at me becuz I was telling him how good the Evil Dead series was, and he came back disappointed becuz he felt it was overrated by "us" horror fanatics. But when I asked him which one he saw, he said he saw Evil Dead 2 first.

I don't know if the order really matters, but I felt I understand more of the comedy and entertainment value on ED 2 because of the backstory of Evil Dead 1. Meaning, since ED 2 was a continuation of the first one, can you really understand the second part if you've never watched the first.

Note = If you have viewed the first one before the sequel, then forgive my ramblings.

[ChainsawXxX]

And don't forget...

"We just cut our girlfriend up with a chainsaw. Does that sound fine?! "

It's tough to describe ED2, especially how to explain to others why so many love it. My take on it is that it IS hilarious and unrelenting, but not "Last House on The Left" unrelenting. It takes 6 minutes into the movie to hit the horror and insanity Ash goes through, and it rarely lets up. A lot of it, I've always thought, rested on The Chin, carrying the movie for great chunks. Bruce really gives it his all, and you can call it scenery-chewing, but he's really convincing as a guy going through this weird, comical hell. Really, the weakest parts are all the expositionith the other characters, the daughter and the others that come to the cabin. Those parts kinda drag the movie, but they're necessary, if only to get fresh victims to the cabin.

But really, this movie holds a special place in my heart, since it was one of the first modern horror movies, along with Re-Animator, that really got me into horror. Up until then, I watched the old Universal movies and API movies on TV, during those sunday afternoons at my house, without even a VCR. ED2 was one of the first exposures that showed me horror movies didn't have to be deadly serious, but could still be violent as fuck and make you laugh at it! It twisted me, perverted me, and I couldn't be happier!

Hope that helps. Now go watch it again.

[thedudeabides]

This is going to be very vague, but, Evil Dead 2 is just, cool.

[billylove]

Troutio, to understand what a great film it is, go watch other similar films done when Evil Dead 2 was released. Then you will realize the greatness.

[General Logan]

These films, Army of Darkness in particular, were movies I was told I would like. Upon seeing them, I felt a bit indifferent. I do dig Bruce just fine thank you.

But even years later, I still find these films to be worshipped too much.

I have recently accepted the surprising fact that I am not really a horror fan, despite giving almost all of it a try. Horror that works for me is psychological. Not physical gore.

That's not to say I don't enjoy gore-fests. I just don't feel the horror. I don't wrestle with the films afterward as I try to sleep.

I guess injecting camp into these things works more for some than myself. Maybe that's why Club Dread didn't do much for me.

[poopoodle]

I think it generally a let down to see any movie years later after hearing a bunch of hype and build up.

I saw Evil Dead 2 in the theatre when it was released and it blew me away. Then I've seen it millions of times on video, since.

It has that "special place" in my heart.

It's like handing someone who's never seen CITIZEN KANE the dvd and telling them it's the GREATEST MOVIE OF ALL TIME! And then being mad at them when they say, "huh? what's the big deal??"

I mean, if you show someone Star Wars for the first time, are they going to go crazy for it? Or shrug there shoulders and say, "it was pretty good."

[reanimated77]

Originally posted by Cosmoline
The original is better in most respects. I don't see what II adds, other than better film quality and a larger budget.

...Bruce's better hair.

[liamE]

The first time I saw this film I was probably 12 years old and a few friends were staying the night. It was my dad who said we should watch it and at some ungodly hour of the night (after Stepfather 2, Demonwarp and Watchers) we did and we loved it.

We laughed and jumped and wanted to kick Hank's arse when he threw the pages down into the cellar. When Ash was possessed the second time we all got depressed, disappointed that he wasn't going to save the day then cheered when he came back and the ending shocked our little fragile minds.

Yes it's been said but this film is amazing in so many ways it's hard to mention them all and some truly memorable ones have been mentioned.

How to end this? Um...

That's my mother your pissing on.

[thephantomkilla]

Damn teens and there no respect for the past. I say we gather em all up the next time a Scream or Urban Legend sequel comes out and we bring them all to an abandoned cotton mill and mass murder their asses. Maybe even nake em up and take gross sexual pictures of them for humility purposes. That e'll teach em for being so self opinionated and crapping all over the carpet of horror past!

[Floydian Trip]

EDII is a great film for all the reasons mentioned above. If you rip on Sam Raimi for making low budget horror to get into the business then you'd have to do the same to alot of horror directors including the recent Best Dir. award winner Peter Jackson.

ED is the best imo for what it was trying to accomplish with barely anything to do it with. EDII is all Bruce and his best performane of them all.

Army of Darkness sucks.

[Boys #22: elmie]

Originally posted by Charles B
EVIL DEAD II is genius. Pure genius. The funniest horror comedy ever, and just a great, great fucking movie.

I get the feeling you don't like horror movies that aren't completely serious down to the knuckle, Elmie. I'm curious, what are your thoughts on movies like BRIDE OF FRANKENSTEIN and AN AMERICAN WEREWOLF IN LONDON?

You make a vaild point CB ... As far as horror is concerned, the interjection of slapstick in most cases usually ruins it for me ... There are exceptions of course, but in general, I enjoy my horror humor-free ...

As far as BRIDE is concerned, I do find it hokey, and while there is the nostaligic element about it that makes it enjoyable, I really have to be in the correct mood to be able to sit through it ...

AMERICAN WEREWOLF is a well-made film and there is enough story to keep me interested, but there just isn't that "something" about it that I feel passionate about ...

I suppose it is the intentions of the filmmakers that dictate how I feel towards the humor ... For example, there is a certain amount of humor in FRENZY that is just brilliant, or, in AUDITION, I feel the levity of the interviews only make the blow atthe end of the film that much more tragic and disturbing ...

[Doug]

Bride of Frankenstein would have been absolutely perfect if not for that silly scene with Pretorious' little people. It's the only blight on an otherwise superb film.

[Rorshach]

I've never liked Evil Dead 2, the chainsaw bit is cool but I was completely disappointed, and its great to find people that agree with me.

[Charlie Brigden]

Originally posted by BobClark
Bride of Frankenstein would have been absolutely perfect if not for that silly scene with Pretorious' little people. It's the only blight on an otherwise superb film.

I just have to say, I love that scene. Especially the king trying to get to the queen.

Reminds me of ARMY OF DARKNESS, actually. Or the other way round...

[Doug]

Bride had enough comic relief in Una. Little people running around like cartoon characters was too much.
Plus, it makes no sense to the narrative. Pretorious is looking for Victor's help in creating life. But he's obviously miles ahead of the good doctor. Frankenstein was stitching together corpses and creating unstable monsters. Pretorious was growing people! How did he expect Frank to help him with his "problem of size"?

[ZombieAGoGo!]

I absolutely love Evil Dead II. Bruce Campbell is a genius! I actually gave a presentation on him in a Public Speaking class and showed a clip of the fight with his hand in the kitchen, and the clip where Evil Ash separates from him in Army of Darkness. I think part of the reason I like the movies, besides Bruce, is I've just always liked my horror mixed with comedy. I love movies like Evil Dead II, The Return of the Living Dead 1 and 2, Dead Heat, Jack Frost...if its a horror/comedy, I want to see it!

[ap Oweyn]

OK, the fans have shown up. Good. And there you are, proclaiming it as genius. Good also. But I want to know why it is so very good. I thought I'd made some fair criticisms, and whilst it is always refreshing to be told I'm wrong, I was hoping for a more involved take on what makes it so special.

It isn't very good. It's bad. And they know that.

What makes it special is tough to nail down. As other posters have said, it's a parody of the original Evil Dead. And a parody of the people involved. Not of the genre itself.

Bruce Campbell knew he was a rotten actor in the first one. And makes no claims to being a great actor even today. Evil Dead 2 was about he and the others tweaking their own noses. And I for one appreciate a cast and crew that can laugh at itself. All this "you don't take the genre seriously" stuff mystifies me. There are classically good examples of the genre out there. There are really awful attempts at the genre out there. And there are self-parodies out there. The genre is big enough to accomodate all of the above and more.

Part of the appeal, I think, is the sheer unpretentiousness of Bruce Campbell. Visit his website, read his autobiography, etc. to get a sense for his take on the character of Ash, the moviemaking process, etc. After reading his autobiography, I decided that the genius of Bruce Campbell is not that he's cooler than us. But precisely that he's NOT. Same goes for the movie. I think people feel a kinda kinship to it because, in some ways, it feels very amatuerish. Like we're watching a bunch of friends eff about with a camera and we're in on the joke.

Is it a good movie? No. Is it a unique movie? Yep.


Stuart

[Troutio]

An interesting set of answers, thanks all. I love a movie that divides opinion.

Myer's Son: You are quite right. I haven't seen the original Evil Dead. Whilst it would usually be my own damn fault for not fully getting a sequel because I'd not seen the original, I had a couple of reasons. Firstly - no one ever said that the first one was any good at all. Secondly, I was under the impression that II was a simply remake on a bigger budget. Thirdly, I'd already spent £50 on DVDs that day, and they were £15 a throw.

Billylove: I accept that this is not a genre of film I am overly familiar with. It maybe that much of the humour depends on knowledge of the contemporaneous gore slashers. Would this not make it (just) a good genre pic, rather than a stand alone great movie? Or, worse still, if it is only good in comparison to a bunch of other movies - it could just be that it is the best of a bad bunch...

I dig the comparison with Peter Jackson's early movies - although I thought Brain Dead was funnier, sicker, more horrifying and better paced - at least on first viewing. Then again, I was in a bit of a strange state of mind when I watched it on Monday (I'd asked my girlfriend to marry me just before she left on a four day business trip that morning - and she didn't give me an answer until she got back yesterday).

I'll tell you what. I'll give it another shot, and have a listen to the commentary (Raimi, Campbell and one other person), and I'll bump this baby up early next week and tell you what I reckon.

Oh, and if you are interested, she said yes. Have a good weekend, all.

[Hair-Metal Hero]

The first one I saw was Army Of Darkness, when it was first on video because it said from the director of Darkman on the case, I loved it, thought it was a damn fun movie, I then went backwards and saw the first two flicks and fell in love with them, they're just fun, fun movies. Darkman and AOD got me hooked on raimi, and I'm glad. I still need to trackdown a copy of Crimewave tho, its the only major thing Raimi has done that I haven't seen, fer crying out loud I got a Bootleg of In the Woods, GIVE ME CRIMEWAVE!

[Fireflyfan]

I find the first two Evil Dead movies to be highly overrated. There are much better films worthy of rabid fanboy love. I haven't watched them in a while so it may just be the fog of memory clouding my judgement, but I remeber t hinking "all that hype.......for this?" I did enjoy AOD thoroughly though.

[Mr. Dark]

I think there are a couple of things you're missing here both about the film and peoples' love for it.

One, the era. This isn't a film that came out last year. It came out in 1987. Over 15 years ago. Look at some of the other horror offerings of that year: Creepshow 2, Ghoulies 2, Prom Night 2, House 2, The Howling 3...it was the era when horror was going into it's self-perpetuated hibernation, smothered by it's own lack of creativity and ideas. Sequelitis nearly murdered the genre, we're just NOW seeing a return to it in the mainstream.

That makes EDII more than just a fan favorite, it makes it important. Amongst a bunch of retreaded, lame horror flicks you had this completely over the top rollercoaster of a picture, with totally insane things happening every minute. I remember seeing it for the first time around that time and just having this overall 'what the FUCK is this?!?' attitude. It blew my mind. I got the same reaction watching movies like Suicide Club...movies so far outside of what other filmmakers are doing that you can barely keep track of them mentally.

The other issue you're overlooking is the strength of the character that Raimi and Campbell created in Ash. He's really the last true horror icon we've seen. On top of everything, he's a hero, not a villain, which most horror icons tend to be. Ash as a character, with his jingoistic way of speaking and his finely honed ability to survive despite fucking up every single task he's given, just resonates with many movie fans. I'd put him in the same league as Big Trouble In Little China's Jack Burton. He's a fuck up, but he's still the hero. He's courageous, he has heart, but he didn't really sign onto this whole hero thing and really just wants a stiff drink and a pretty girl.

Of course, this is just my two cents, your mileage may vary. :)