Ishii the Killer [Archive]

Doug

11-13-2003, 03:45 PM

I'll be one of the naysayers before the Asian Film Thread posters arrive with their accolades.
This is the one of the worst films I have ever seen, and I don't say that lightly. When it wasn't completely revolting (and I'm not easily revolted, mind you), it was painfully dull.
I wrote about this somewhere in the Asian thread, citing more specific reasons, but suffice it to say that I can't remember a more grueling film-watching experience.
You have my condolences on this purchase.

bunnymud wants tacos

11-13-2003, 03:46 PM

heheheh

but you forget....I sat through Signs

OI-VEY!!! WHAT A SHUNDAH!!!

mrstiffie

11-13-2003, 03:58 PM

Look at the director's other two movies:

Audition
Visitor Q

Audition is only reveired as "What did ya think of the last 10 minutes of that one, huh? Pretty nasty!". Seriously at the last party I was at when Japanese horror got brought up that was the only one he has seen (Blockbuster saw fit to rent that and Ringu and that's it) and that's pretty much how the conversation went. Just shock value, nothing more.

I'm glad you told me about the rape thing, I can scratch this one off too...

bunnymud wants tacos

11-13-2003, 03:59 PM

Visitor Q

only watched that one twice.....and that was one time too many

mrstiffie

11-13-2003, 04:09 PM

OK bunny the fact you went for a second round worries me! Aren't you the one that got into the Guinie Pig movies, or was that someone else? I forget.

And it's Itchy the Scratchy Killer.

bunnymud wants tacos

11-13-2003, 04:12 PM

that was someone else with the hamster movies

but I still wouldn't mind seeing them

I'm not gonna blind buy those

not until I get the IMPORTANT DVD's first

mrstiffie

11-13-2003, 04:15 PM

I always think of 8mm when I see those on the shelf. I honestly get nausious when I see them there, even if I don't pick one up.

*shutters*

Doug

11-13-2003, 04:16 PM

I've never understood "blind buying" DVD's.
Don't you people have bills to pay?

mrstiffie

11-13-2003, 04:21 PM

I've been saying that since I joined this forum! I do, that's why I rent for now. Suicide Circle and Kairo are on my 'If I ever Catch Up On My Bills I Might Look At Buying' list...

mdamien13

11-13-2003, 04:46 PM

Thanks for the feedback.

I absolutely loved Audition (the whole movie, not just the last 10 minutes), that's why I brought up this movie. I thought the whole movie was beautifully, then seamlessly transitioned into a brutal film so quickly you were already neck-deep before you realized where the film had gone.

I don't like shock for shock's sake, though, so if it sounds like Ishi the Killer is going to be that I might have to rent it (or wait for more positive word of mouth before blind buying).

Wetbones

11-13-2003, 05:30 PM

It should be noted that there will be 3 different versions of ICHI THE KILLER released in the US.

An R-rated version that is missing a whole chunk of the film and that was made for Blockbuster and all those stores who are too Christian to carry Unrated films, which are the Devil's work as everyone learns in Bible Study ...

Then there's the Unrated version of ICHI that is uncut and uncensored.

Those two will be released on the 18th of November.

Then, at some later date there will be a 2-disc special edition called ICHI THE KILLER - THE BLOODY EDITION or some such nonsense.

Now take your pick and choose wisely lest double dip will bitchslap you ...

Wetbones

11-13-2003, 05:36 PM

And if you're just getting into Miike, for chrissakes don't judge the man solely on the grounds of the films that have made it to the US so far. AUDITION, ICHI, VISITOR Q and DEAD OR ALIVE are all pretty extreme, violent and "fucked up".

But they come from the same director who has made the deeply moving period drama SABU or the poetic BIRD PEOPLE IN CHINA.

He has directed a ton of much more serious yakuza/gangster films, most notable in my opinion BLUES HARP, NEW GRAVEYARD OF HONOUR, GUYS FROM PARADISE, RAINY DOG and LEY LINES.

There are a few more films that fall into the extreme category of his output that have yet to see a US release like VIOLENT FIRE or FULL METAL YAKUZA.

But it always makes me sad when people dismiss Miike as a pervert or a freak when they have only seen one or two of the over 60 films he has made in the last 15 years. He is so much more than just Mr. Freak Show.

Chowyunfrag

11-13-2003, 06:12 PM

Lets not forget City of lost Souls and Happiness of the Katakuris or Fudoh..

I would say get Ichi if only to have good fucked up movie to show your friends (I got one buddy who cant make it thru the opening Title :cool: ) while not as good as alot of people say it still has alot going for it.

Aghora Eats Kittens

11-13-2003, 06:53 PM

There's no denying the man has some form of talent. I'm sure he isn't just Mr. Grossout. I was well aware that the man made something like six flicks in a year. But If you're blind buying, I'd get Happiness of the Katakuris over Ichi any day. That's the more enjoyable film.

shootitinthehead

11-13-2003, 06:57 PM

ICHI not withstanding...

Miike is great at making you think you saw something when you actually didn't (see FUDOH, a lot of the gore happens offscreen but you remember it as being ONscreen, very strange)

Yeah, you can't discount Miike as being a pervert (like Larry Clark, hehehe I had to get that jab in there) He makes wildly different films.

IMO he is one of the 5 or so best directors currently working today. This guy is a force of nature, undeniably talented.

mrstiffie

11-13-2003, 07:29 PM

Blues Harp is at my video store, on the same 'new' rack as all the other asian cinema the owner has recently gotten into. Too bad he's getting a lot of crap first.

I bring that up because I am wondering if I should rent that. Do you recommend that Wetbones? Don't let me down now...

Just remember I hate rape in movies, so go by that...

bunnymud V2

11-13-2003, 08:13 PM

I've never understood "blind buying" DVD's.

here is what I do

Order movie and forget I did so

when the bill comes in I paninc and shuffle money around

at the end of the day I have my DVDs, bills are paid, and only 1-2 people are hurt :p

mrstiffie

11-13-2003, 08:38 PM

heh I wish I could so that. Being single and living alone in a three bedroom two bath house I have to juggle between bathing and eating.

As you can smell, I choose to eat.

The misspelled title of this topic is a question if you say it aloud. "Ishii the killer?". Sorry. Just noticed that. Like, "Ishii naked?"? See? Er...

JD is Agent FIXXXER

11-13-2003, 10:06 PM

HARDCORE fucking movie. This movie leaves very little out of it. Some good gore, great violence, but horrid CGI.

Though I like this flick and own the 2-disc uncut version, I sure as shit couldn't recommend this movie to anyone. A lot of people I showed it to, I thought could handle it, but I was wrong. They either thought it was too much violence, too confussing, or too long, which I think it does run a bit too long.

The only problem I have with this movie, is the unclear ending. I've said it before, and I'm sticking to it; the asian/japanese do not know how to end their movies. Of course there are exceptions, but for the majority of the asian horror films I've seen, they have great build up, but I never understand why they end their movies the way they do.

- Fixxxer

Aghora Eats Kittens

11-14-2003, 12:16 AM

I forgot how horrible the CGI is. It is terrible indeed. But about that friggin' ending.

******************SPOILORS*****************
Well kinda anyhow. I didn't quite get it myself, but it was like five in the friggin morning at a marathon so it was bound to be hazy. However I overheard someone talking about it, and the theory was that the whole event was the guys fantasy. The guy being the one with the slits on his face and who was into the torture and whatnot. Cause at the end you can plainly see that the gash Ichi gave him was never actually there. He just fell from the roof. Or some such shit....
******************END SPOILERS**************

If I be wrong, correct me and explain it if you can.

Wetbones

11-14-2003, 12:26 AM

Originally posted by mrstiffie
Blues Harp is at my video store, on the same 'new' rack as all the other asian cinema the owner has recently gotten into. Too bad he's getting a lot of crap first.

I bring that up because I am wondering if I should rent that. Do you recommend that Wetbones? Don't let me down now...

Just remember I hate rape in movies, so go by that...

BLUES HARP is awesome! It's a real powerful and emotional film. How your video store can have it puzzles me though. The only legitimate release of the film outside of Japan is the German DVD which has English subs as well but I rather doubt that's the one they have ... Could that be the Cannibal King ebay boot? At any rate, grab the film next chance you get! There's no rape in it whatsoever, not even any violence towards women. Some rather strong homoerotic overtones though that may not be to everyone's taste but if you can take my posts here you should be allright with BLUES HARP too ...

tom de plume

11-14-2003, 03:54 PM

While I don't like many of the violent grindhouse flicks of the 1970's (I Spit on Your Grave and Last House on the Left as examples), I do like Ichi. Yeah, it is ultra violent, but it is done in such a creative and cartoonish manner that the film became (for me at least) a wild ride of "what the hell will happen next?" I consider it an offensive material endurance test.

I have liked the three Miike films I have seen (Ichi, Audition, Katakuris) for very different reasons, but I wouldn't recommend any of them without warning. All three are so unique and bent in their own special way that the love/hate groups for each film are probably well manned.

Wetbones

11-14-2003, 05:53 PM

BTW, I posted this here before some time ago but if any of you are interested in checking out the manga by Hideo Yamamoto that Miike's ICHI THE KILLER is based on, you can download scanned and translated copies of the first 5 volumes (of a total 10) here:

http://www.thehawks.org/hawks/bt/index.php?dir=.%2FKoroshiya_1

bunnymud V2

11-15-2003, 03:13 PM

the only thing that set me off of Visitor Q was......

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The fucking of the dead daughter-
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The pamcakes

Alex Riviello

11-17-2003, 12:35 AM

If you want to see this movie but can't stand too much gore, pick up the R rated version. I didn't realize that was the version I had, because it's pretty goddamn hardcore too. At the Columbus marathon though it was definitely the unrated version...MUCH more torture and nastiness in it. The CGI is pretty bad, yes, but there's a few good ones like the needles and the face sliding.

Oh and Aghora that's an interesting theory...never heard that before. That makes more sense...I guess. Movie's wacky as hell, either way.

Addix

11-17-2003, 04:00 AM

Miike is a very talented film maker, but for the most part he just ain't my thang. I thought Audition was incredibly boring for the most part, but the end did make it worth the blind buy. Ichi has a much more cruel and misogynistic vibe that doesn't sit well with me.

Happiness of the Katakuris, on the other hand is sheer brilliance...easily his best work (IMO). Every film could benefit from a zombie dance number. :D

Hart FAckin' Fisher

11-17-2003, 06:28 AM

I can't believe all the pussy boys that completely dismiss Miike's films based on a couple gross out moments. Sure a great deal of this guys shit is fucking nasty, and I fuckin' love it that way, But what folks are missing is that Miike has a wonderful sense of visual poetry. He has an eye for composition, color and music that I don't see many other directors nailing like he does. Kitano does it, only in a more expressionistic jazz kind of way.

Ichii the killer gets under your skin and stays there with more than just visceral gore. He goes over the top and under the belt. But many viewers get shut down with the first slap and they miss out on the rest. If you're adventuresome and looking for something inventive and fresh and invigorating, go for this guys collection. Even in his shittiest films, for me it's Visitor Q or the third Dead or Alive film, Miike is reaching for something. He's daring to fail, whether it's fail big or win big, and a great deal of his subject matter doesn't translate as well for american audiences because the cultural hot button points are Japanese, not American. This is a guy who's making films for himself and his own reference points, not just trying to sell out and sell up like the rest of the herd.

I was bored by Graveyard of Honor, but that doesn't mean I'm not salivating for his next flick. I can't wait to see every film of his I can get my hands on because I know this is a guy who's fighting to win, not showing up for his guaranteed purse.

Fuck that R-rated shit. Go for the full bore booze man. Why drink watered down piss someone else thinks you can handle when you can mainline the Jack Daniels for yourself.

Addix

11-17-2003, 11:29 AM

Originally posted by Hart FAckin' Fisher
I can't believe all the pussy boys that completely dismiss Miike's films based on a couple gross out moments. Sure a great deal of this guys shit is fucking nasty, and I fuckin' love it that way, But what folks are missing is that Miike has a wonderful sense of visual poetry. He has an eye for composition, color and music that I don't see many other directors nailing like he does. Kitano does it, only in a more expressionistic jazz kind of way. Don't forget us plain old pussies now. You wouldn't want us ladies feeling left out now would you?

Like I said, Miike is extremely talented and he is brilliant at what he does, but it doesn't mean I have to enjoy his work. It has nothing to do with gross out moments, I can handle gore just fine thank you. It's the ideals behind some of his "moments" that bothers me. Rape and torture movies in general don't bother me (although they aren't exactly on my preferred viewing list), but the level that he takes it to disturbs me. Much of his work isn't a "fun" kind of gore...it's cruelty in its most gruesome form. For some reason with Miike films, it has a more real feel to it that makes it more disturbing than it normally would be. It's kind of hard to describe the difference, but I hope at least part of my point is coming across.

Wetbones

11-17-2003, 11:42 AM

Just a little bit of good news ... The US DVD will have the Miike commentary track ported from the original Japanese DVD. And it will be subtitled (the movie AND the commentary track) and not dubbed like the commentary track for HAPPINESS OF THE KATAKURIES.

Hart FAckin' Fisher

11-17-2003, 04:31 PM

Fuckin' A cool. I've got a bare bones Chinese import that's glitchy but worth it's wet in semen. All my Miike collection is bootleg imports so the quality is on the cheap. I wasn't going to wait around for Americans to catch up. I've been seeing a majority of these films on Big Screen at the American Cinematheque here in LA for the outlaw Japanese film masters series.

Isao Kanemasa

11-17-2003, 04:40 PM

Bunnymud, the fucked daughter was alive and kicking. The female newscaster was dead and shitting.

Addix

11-17-2003, 05:07 PM

Originally posted by Isao Kanemasa
Bunnymud, the fucked daughter was alive and kicking. The female newscaster was dead and shitting. *shudder*

I feel dirty just from reading that. :p

otisthecat

11-17-2003, 05:21 PM

So what is this movie actually about?

DamienThorn

11-17-2003, 05:24 PM

Thank you every one for your input.

I have just learned today that it is playing in Montreal (big screen). I didn't know that one before this tread. I think i am going to see it this week, unless it is the R version.

I despise cut version.:mad:

Wetbones

11-17-2003, 05:24 PM

Originally posted by otisthecat
So what is this movie actually about?

I stole this from ebay ...

"In a yakuza syndicate, the Anjo clan has suffered the loss of their head leader. Kakihara, Anjo's right hand man, sets out on a quest to find his boss (regardless of the evidence that says he's dead). Things begin to turn for the worst when a group of men that was once affiliated with their syndicate but kicked out set their eyes on seeing the Anjo Clan's complete annihilation. To make thing's worse, they've got the mysterious and extremely deadly killer Ichi on their tales. Will the Anjo Clan survive through Ichi's slaughter? Can they defy their gloomy fate? A sick and twisted fantasy about sadism and masochism with an ending so puzzling that it'll drive you to watch this nihilistic ride into the deepest trenches of the human psyche a second time, a third time, hell, maybe even a fourth. A film based on the extreme manga with the same name, Miike Takashi brings the panels of ink to life in this controversial film."

AlgertMan

11-18-2003, 04:12 PM

Originally posted by Wetbones

An R-rated version that is missing a whole chunk of the film and that was made for Blockbuster and all those stores who are too Christian to carry Unrated films, which are the Devil's work as everyone learns in Bible Study ...

that is one of the most ignorant things i have ever read...and am insulted because i am a christian

... and have ordered the uncut/special edition...

Scott Standridge

11-18-2003, 04:22 PM

Originally posted by AlgertMan
that is one of the most ignorant things i have ever read...and am insulted because i am a christian

... and have ordered the uncut/special edition...

Read much? ;)

Surely you'll allow that it's generally the morally righteous (or at least those claiming to be) who try to shut things like that down, wouldn't you? I know some atheists probably don't like so much blood and guts as well, but going by majorities...

Welcome to the boards. Fasten your seatbelt. You're going to hear a lot worse if you hang around here.

tom de plume

11-18-2003, 04:37 PM

Originally posted by Scott Standridge
Read much? ;)

Surely you'll allow that it's generally the morally righteous (or at least those claiming to be) who try to shut things like that down, wouldn't you? I know some atheists probably don't like so much blood and guts as well, but going by majorities...

Welcome to the boards. Fasten your seatbelt. You're going to hear a lot worse if you hang around here. Scott -
While I agree that being thick skinned on these boards is a good suggestion, you have to admit Wetbones' comment was a pretty big generalization and those types of comments will normally elicit responses in kind.

Still, unrated films are the devil's work, but that is OK in the eyes of this caco-demon.

Guttenberg Fan Club

11-18-2003, 04:41 PM

Originally posted by Farmer Vincent's fritters
Scott -
While I agree that being thick skinned on these boards is a good suggestion, you have to admit Wetbones' comment was a pretty big generalization and those types of comments will normally elicit responses in kind.

Not really. Wetbones' statement wasn't a generalization. Conservative christian groups pressure companies to not carry films made for adults. Hence the lack of an adult section at all in most major rental companies.

mrstiffie

11-18-2003, 04:43 PM

While it's a broad statement that wouldn't be tolerated if you were talking about someone's race, or for that matter, another religion (jews and muslims off limits, christians OK to bash) there is some truth in it.

Scott Standridge

11-18-2003, 04:47 PM

My main point is that if you think THAT'S the most ignorant thing you've ever read, you need to pick up a newspaper.

And it's pretty clear that the groups pressuring for the removal of sex and gore (more sex than gore, strangely) are Christian groups by and large.

Do you think it's "christian" to enjoy Ichi the Killer? If so, I want to visit your church. ;)

tom de plume

11-18-2003, 04:50 PM

Originally posted by Guttenberg Fan Club
Not really. Wetbones' statement wasn't a generalization. Conservative christian groups pressure companies to not carry films made for adults. Hence the lack of an adult section at all in most major rental companies. Here is Wetbones comment again: Originally posted by Wetbones
An R-rated version that is missing a whole chunk of the film and that was made for Blockbuster and all those stores who are too Christian to carry Unrated films, which are the Devil's work as everyone learns in Bible Study ... While I agree that fundamentalist Christian groups do pressure all sorts of companies, I'm not sure that

A. Unrated films are preached against in Bible school. NR is not the devil's rating, is it?

B. The comment "too Christian" is not going to offend someone. I'm sure some people feel they are as Christian as can be and watch unrated films.

C. Only Christian video stores lack unrated films.

Is there truth in Wetbones' statement. Yes. Is it a generalization. Hell, yes.

tom de plume

11-18-2003, 04:52 PM

Originally posted by mrstiffie
While it's a broad statement that wouldn't be tolerated if you were talking about someone's race, or for that matter, another religion (jews and muslims off limits, christians OK to bash) there is some truth in it. There can be "some truth" in a generalization. Matter of fact, that is how generalizations are born.

Scott Standridge

11-18-2003, 04:52 PM

Was it made in a joking manner? Damn-it-to-hell-yes. :D

Seriously, I think he was just being a smart-alecky whippersnapper. Kinda like when you say, "Oh, so now you're too christian to come over to my house and eat monkey brains, huh? Well fine! See you in Sunday school!"

You'll have to excuse me, I'm in a weird mood today. Must be that ol' debbil. :p

tom de plume

11-18-2003, 04:57 PM

Originally posted by Scott Standridge
My main point is that if you think THAT'S the most ignorant thing you've ever read, you need to pick up a newspaper.Good point.

Originally posted by Scott Standridge
And it's pretty clear that the groups pressuring for the removal of sex and gore (more sex than gore, strangely) are Christian groups by and large.

Do you think it's "christian" to enjoy Ichi the Killer? If so, I want to visit your church. ;) At my church (which just so happens to be better then everyone else's church) we drink goat blood and meet only on Tuesdays.

Oh, and we don't associate with the damned (Sorry, Scott).

Scott Standridge

11-18-2003, 04:59 PM

Originally posted by Farmer Vincent's fritters

Oh, and we don't associate with the damned (Sorry, Scott).

I'm offended.

tom de plume

11-18-2003, 05:02 PM

Somewhere in this thread, there is a valuable lesson to be learned about not playing devil's advocate over semantics. Sadly, I'm a slow learner.

tom de plume

11-18-2003, 05:04 PM

Originally posted by Scott Standridge
I'm offended. Ay! Your virgin eyes hav been bluddied by my terse, but contradictory prose. I've seen it hap'n to many a man.

CTDeLude

11-18-2003, 05:30 PM

Heck man I am a conservative EVANGELICAL Christian and I've still watched Dead Or Alive and other assorted Miike "gross" flicks. While Dead Or Alive wasn't really my thing I still quite enjoy Miike's works (I have Happiness and City of Lost Souls) and loved Graveyard of Honour when I saw it in theatres recently.

I suppose as a Asian cinema lover you do happen across a lot of stuff that is just not in line with what you normally watch and you act accordingly. I'll watch most of anything once at least. Kitano isn't exactly a walk in the park either nor is a movie like Sympathy for Mr. Vengenace. Hasn't kept me from immensely enjoying those various works though. Heck even the Christian websites have people watch flicks that will obviously go against what they would normally choose to watch.

Uh....I don't know where I am going with this but AI will say I still remember Matt Goldberg warning me off of Miike's works because he thought I would be repulsed or whatever and yet I managed to think Miike one of the greater living directors today...

tom de plume

11-18-2003, 05:33 PM

I soooooo derailed this thread.

Scott Standridge

11-18-2003, 05:35 PM

Come to think of it, all those religious paintings from the middle ages of souls burning in hell and saints being bloodily martyred...those are pretty sweet.

Maybe if the movie showed saints or sinners getting roasted or speared or something, then the MM would be all behind it.

Screenwriters! To your stations! :D

Guttenberg Fan Club

11-18-2003, 05:36 PM

DeLude, are you implying that because you like these films, the christian right isn't the main force behind keeping films like this out of major stores in America?

tom de plume

11-18-2003, 05:51 PM

There are as many types of Christians out there as there are torture scenes in Ichi (full circle, baby). The term gets thrown around here a lot without qualifying who is really being discussed. Not every Christian is a holy roller in a bright white suit complete with a blue haired wife.

With that said, I am guessing that discussing Ichi at your local church (ANY church) would lead to you be thrown out on your sinning arse.

CTDeLude

11-18-2003, 06:06 PM

Originally posted by Guttenberg Fan Club
DeLude, are you implying that because you like these films, the christian right isn't the main force behind keeping films like this out of major stores in America?

In fact yes.

Because believe it or not but I too would hardly recommend these films to anyone. Because most can't handle it period (Christian or not) and I do not look upon that as a bad thing. It's a niche. And if you do like these films you will find a way to watch them. It ain't all that hard really and doesn't cost much at all...infact less than getting region 1 dvds in many cases.

These films really don't need to be in Wal-mart or even Best-buy. Hell a lot of the reason why these films aren't on the shelf anywhere is because of the movie studios here. In fact that leads us to something even more interesting. It's not the Christians keeping these movies away, it's the movie studios here keeping them away. Because if it was the Christians there wouldn't be easy access to Faces of Death 23 and Girls Gone Wild: Wild in Alaska at your local Best Buy and such. Because I have seen just as disgusting films here as I have seen released by any foriegn country. It's kinda like Battle Royale, must people can't handle that kind of film, can't look deeper and that's fine. But anyone who has wanted to see this film has or has nothing stopping them but a fear of shopping on the 'Net. So there is really no need to point fingers period. Don't like Blockbuster? Plenty of alternatives on the 'Net or even the ma and pa rental place. It's kind of like public records, you may never have known something existed (a law let's say) yet you are still bound to that law. Same thing here. Just because you can't get a film at Blockbuster there is nothing stopping you getting it from Greencine, Netflix, Nicheflix, or whatever else is out there.

Trying to blame it on Christians is scapegoating. Blaming on Miramax and it's partners in crime; now you're getting somewhere...

mrstiffie

11-18-2003, 06:07 PM

I didn't find Wetbone's comments offensive, I hate the politically correct crap myself. My points are that I made a black joke, not even against blacks, and people got all uppity about it. And, chrsitians are greenlighted to be made fun of but you can't do the same to any other group. If Marlyn Manson or Tool talked shit about jews or muslims there'd be an uproar.

I'm not sure religion plays a part in the non-rated movies at, say, Blockbuster, but I could be wrong.

Don't sweat it, satan still loves you! ;)

CTDeLude

11-18-2003, 06:08 PM

Originally posted by Farmer Vincent's fritters
There are as many types of Christians out there as there are torture scenes in Ichi (full circle, baby). The term gets thrown around here a lot without qualifying who is really being discussed. Not every Christian is a holy roller in a bright white suit complete with a blue haired wife.

With that said, I am guessing that discussing Ichi at your local church (ANY church) would lead to you be thrown out on your sinning arse.

Well it certainly wouldn't really be the proper topic to talk about.

And the funny thing is: There is absolutely nothing wrong in that notion. Just common sense.

CTDeLude

11-18-2003, 06:10 PM

As for Blockbuster, well they have to listen to the consumer and unfortunately the vast number of consumers are apart of families looking for a Friday night film with the family and such. So just like Wal-Mart they listen to what those consumers want and if a majority want nothingg stronger than an R so be it. It's there choice. But for you who don't care? You have PLENTY of other choices like I pointed out above...

Guttenberg Fan Club

11-18-2003, 06:13 PM

Originally posted by CTDeLude
Trying to blame it on Christians is scapegoating. Blaming on Miramax and it's partners in crime; now you're getting somewhere...

No, it isn't scapegoating. It's the truth.

Of course you're incapable of actually reading a post, so let me explain something to you...when someone says that the christian right fights against adult films in stores, it of course does not mean that all christians in the country are against adult films. That is an implication that you take out of any statement made against the christian groups.

However, you saying that christian groups don't fight against these types of films is just a lie.

CTDeLude

11-18-2003, 06:23 PM

Originally posted by Guttenberg Fan Club
No, it isn't scapegoating. It's the truth.

Of course you're incapable of actually reading a post, so let me explain something to you...when someone says that the christian right fights against adult films in stores, it of course does not mean that all christians in the country are against adult films. That is an implication that you take out of any statement made against the christian groups.

However, you saying that christian groups don't fight against these types of films is just a lie.

So do Muslim groups and Jewish groups and Soccer Moms who might be none of those as well as loads of others with no religious motivation. So before starting to insult me please take that into consideration as well. Because the lack of inclusion of all the many other groups shows (whether meant or not) a singling out of Christians alone. You may not see it but obviously others here did...

And frankly, money talks, so if Blockbuster could make quite a bit more money by renting out Unrated films and not losing all the families who rent there they would.

Guttenberg Fan Club

11-18-2003, 06:28 PM

Originally posted by CTDeLude
So do Muslim groups and Jewish groups and Soccer Moms who might be none of those as well as loads of others with no religious motivation. So before starting to insult me please take that into consideration as well. Because the lack of inclusion of all the many other groups shows (whether meant or not) and singling out of Christians alone.

And frankly, money talks, so if Blockbuster could make quite a bit more money by renting out Unrated films and not losing all the families who rent there they would.

Oy.

Christian groups lead the charge, DeLude. I don't know why you're even bothering to argue this. Wal-Mart didn't stop selling any unrated film because a group of Muslims asked them to.

I'm also missing where I insulted you. Hell, I don't know where in this thread I've said a negative thing about anybody - christians included.

tom de plume

11-18-2003, 06:29 PM

Anyone that makes a blanket statement about any one group of people is an idiot. Yeah, I get the sweet sweet irony in that statement...

Guttenberg Fan Club

11-18-2003, 06:30 PM

Racists are douche bags.

I'd like to see you find the problem with that blanket statement.

tom de plume

11-18-2003, 06:31 PM

It was a joke. Didn't the second sentence lay that out for you?

Guttenberg Fan Club

11-18-2003, 06:34 PM

Yes.

tom de plume

11-18-2003, 06:36 PM

Well, OK then. Thanks for not bringing up Nazis and serial killers.

Guttenberg Fan Club

11-18-2003, 06:37 PM

My post should have been read with a winking icon. I just refuse to use them.

tom de plume

11-18-2003, 06:38 PM

Originally posted by Guttenberg Fan Club
My post should have been read with a winking icon. I just refuse to use them. Ditto.

Addix

11-18-2003, 06:40 PM

Originally posted by mdamien13
Thanks for the feedback.

I absolutely loved Audition (the whole movie, not just the last 10 minutes), that's why I brought up this movie. I thought the whole movie was beautifully, then seamlessly transitioned into a brutal film so quickly you were already neck-deep before you realized where the film had gone.

I don't like shock for shock's sake, though, so if it sounds like Ishi the Killer is going to be that I might have to rent it (or wait for more positive word of mouth before blind buying). Miike is very much a different animal in that you can't rely on other people's opinions at all in helping you make buying decisions. It all comes down to your personal taste. For every hundred people you find that love his work, you will find another hundred people who think it is deplorable. All that is going to matter in the end is whether or not you like it.

If you rent it first, you are going to get the R version which is very different from the uncut version. That won't even give you a definitive answer, but at least you would be able to make a more informed decision.

On the other hand, blind buying Ichi (or any Miike film) isn't really much of a risk as long as you buy the uncut version. If you find that you hate it, you can easily unload it on eBay or something. There is always someone looking for the uncut version of this movie. The R rated version would be a little more difficult to get rid of because, for the most part, anyone who wants Ichi doesn't want the watered down version.

To make an unnecessarily long story short...you really can't go wrong either way, so decide with confidence! :)

Edit: well damn. I guess if I had rest of the topic before posting, I would have known that my on topic post is now waaaay the fuck off topic.

God I hate fucking religious discussions. They never go anywhere, no one is ever going to change their view, there are brainwashed idiots in all religious factions...ummm...that's about all I'm going to say right now. :p

Ok, one more thing...all organized religion is a load of bullshit. Now I'm done. :D

CTDeLude

11-18-2003, 06:45 PM

Originally posted by Guttenberg Fan Club
Oy.

Christian groups lead the charge, DeLude. I don't know why you're even bothering to argue this. Wal-Mart didn't stop selling any unrated film because a group of Muslims asked them to.

I'm also missing where I insulted you. Hell, I don't know where in this thread I've said a negative thing about anybody - christians included.

"Oy" is right my friend...

Fine, let's live with the fact that life includes (and always will) three things: death, taxes, and Christian groups protesting everything unrated and anything else that might be "fun."

Let's never argue that fact again.

There's got to be something else....

mrstiffie

11-18-2003, 06:45 PM

CTDeLude is right on two counts:

a) Blockbuster=soccer moms looking for Friday night rentals
2) mulims and jews are just as outspoken (if not moreso with muslims) about content in movies. Why, for instance, is the Matrix sequels and 'Bruce Almighty' banned in Egypt?

I hate political correctness. I hate moreso those that instantly flame you if you make a joke and forget the ;) and start the name calling. That doesn't apply to anyone in this topic btw. If someone makes a joke, like Wetbones, and your new to the board, wait and see if they always post like that or if it was a joke minus the ;) before flaming!

*steps off of soapbox*

And don't jew me outta my money!

*;) missing to prove point*

Scott Standridge

11-18-2003, 06:52 PM

I always wondered why Bruce Almighty didn't generate more protests in the US than it did...which was what, none?

tom de plume

11-18-2003, 06:58 PM

Originally posted by Scott Standridge
I always wondered why Bruce Almighty didn't generate more protests in the US than it did...which was what, none? No one seems to know why Almighty got a free pass, but I suspect it has something to do with the fact that Christ is on the board at Universal.

mrstiffie

11-18-2003, 07:05 PM

Same reason 'Oh God' slipped by: no Jesus. I saw it back when I felt like being a christian and it honestly does not offend.

Anger Management

11-19-2003, 05:37 AM

So where do you Asian film lovers get your fix of Asian cinema, anyway? No video stores around here carry Miike's films, and buying them will be too expensive (even though I do have Battle Royale in my collection). Is bootleg and Kazaa the only solution?

Scott Standridge

11-19-2003, 10:49 AM

Originally posted by mrstiffie
Same reason 'Oh God' slipped by: no Jesus. I saw it back when I felt like being a christian and it honestly does not offend.

I disagree. I think it slipped by because people honestly believed that even if George Burns wasn't God, he was so old that he must have known God when they were Kids together and thus could give a fair portrayal.

Guttenberg Fan Club

11-19-2003, 11:02 AM

Originally posted by Farmer Vincent's fritters
No one seems to know why Almighty got a free pass, but I suspect it has something to do with the fact that Christ is on the board at Universal.

This thread has been toasted, but...I think the reason Bruce Almighty wasn't protested is because there was nothing to protest. It pretty much was just an hour and a half of 'God works hard, you should appreciate him more - even if he can't answer all your prayers'.

AlgertMan

11-19-2003, 11:37 AM

Originally posted by Anger Management
So where do you Asian film lovers get your fix of Asian cinema, anyway? No video stores around here carry Miike's films, and buying them will be too expensive (even though I do have Battle Royale in my collection). Is bootleg and Kazaa the only solution?

find an region-free dvd player and go to the internet

but just be careful and do a little bit of looking arouns to make sure what you get is not a bootleg