The use of "Adult" language and situations. (Swear words and sex)

[Capt. Eucalyptus]

How do you feel about the use of strong language and sex in your stories?

Case in point, the Chud story assignment I am working on at present contains a handful of swear words (shit, fucker, fucking, bollocks and hell). They make perfect sense in the situation. But I struggle with the appropriateness never the less.

I realize that as a conservative Christian I may be somewhat in the minority here. For me it's a struggle between honoring my religious beliefs and writing what I feel makes sense. Plus I don't want to use these things just to be "cool" or because these words and situations are "everywhere" in today's media.

What do you think?

[Rath/Brendan]

Just you wait for my climatic inter spirtual sex scene between Dorothy and Virgil....

[Unbreathless]

eek.

I obviously don't have a problem with it.

well... if i DO have a problem, it's that i use it too much (swearing that is)

[Dan Whitehead]

I wondered about the language as I was reading the story, to be honest. I'm aware of your beliefs, and although I didn't find it odd in relation to the story, the presence of hardcore swearwords did stand out because of how I "expect" Christians to write, I guess.

I think it boils down to character. If you're being true to the character, and you put them in a situation where their natural reaction would be to swear, then having them say "Crikey!", just to conform to your own personal code, would stand out horribly.

The first story I wrote for the character assignment featured a lot of swearing. It's the first story I've written with that much swearing - not because of any religious belief, just because I'm very aware that my grandparents read my work! But in this case, the two characters had to swear. I wrote it without the bad language (although I hate that phrase - "language" in itself can neither be good or bad) but it didn't work. Once I went through and put in some "fucks" the characters came to life, and everything clicked.

But for my next story, it'll all depend on the characters again. Swearing or not swearing for any reason other than the neccesity of the story means you're forcing a square peg into a round hole.

I'm not sure what my opinion is worth on matters religious, but I don't think that writing swearwords in fiction (especially the story in question, which I thought looked at religion in a challenging and interesting way) reflects badly on the author.

[Charlie Brigden]

Hell, it never reflected badly on Stevie King...

Dan is right, it's all in context. Obviously, to have a story with Han Solo and have him swear six ways to sunday at Chewie would be totally wrong, but sometimes, it's just another part of the character.

[Capt. Eucalyptus]

Thanks awfully guys. I appreciate your input.

[Scott Standridge]

Not to plug my own stuff to much...well, yes, actually it is to do that...but my chudstory has a healthy dose of sex mixed in with the horror:

<a href="http://www.chudstories.com/stories/mademe.php3" target="_blank">What You Made Me</a>

I think like anything it has its place. Just like in movies sometimes swearing or sex is called for, so in fiction. And I don't really have a problem with it when the sex is its own raison d'etre--erotic stories, etc. The trick is, like anything, that when you do it you do it well and in a way that makes sense.

"I jumped out from behind the altar and startled Father O'Mallahey.

'Fucking Christ!' the old priest shouted, 'You scared the bejesus out of me, you little shit!' "

See what I mean? :D

[Capt. Eucalyptus]

I read it and it's really good. Everything seems to make sense within the context of the story. Very creepy.

Thanks Scott.

[Kid Ego]

If there's one thing I actually learned while writing in college, it was that you should write to your audience, and not to yourself. If you are censoring your own writings because you feel it's inappropriate due of your faith, then you're doing an injustice to your readers, who have no predisposition to your faith. I, being a fairly conservative christian also, have no problems writing/speaking/throwing profanity. They're just words. Mind you, I do pull in the reigns a little when I'm in a crowded shopping mall with little kids around, but I don't quite censor myself because of my faith. I use profanity in my writing as a character device, more than just something to put in there. If it feels wrong when I read it later on, then I change it. If it's not going along with the characterization or plot, it'll probably come out. Also, my audience usually isn't conservative southern baptist preachers either. If that were the case, I'd remove all instances of drugs/profanity/sex/dancing/racing/and beastiality from my stories...

...wow...quite the tangent...I surprise even myself sometimes...sorry to ramble.

[Capt. Eucalyptus]

Belive me Kid I appreciate your "ramblings". I neede to hear these things from other writers.

[Kid Ego]

capteucalyptus (Scott Roche):
Belive me Kid I appreciate your "ramblings". I neede to hear these things from other writers.Trust me, I struggled through a year of college writing with trying to write so I wouldn't betray my own sensibilities. After talking with a couple of different professors about it, I decided to literally say "Fuck it" and write to the audience I was aiming for. My writing improved dramatically and I appreciated my own material more. I still am a bit leary of letting my mom or other family members read my stuff, but that's just me caring what they'd think...they aren't my audience anyway.

[Hastur]

I could not have said it better myself.

When I'm going over a story, I read it from one end to the other without looking at it from an editing point of view. I try to see it as a regular, Joe-Average reader would see it when reading it. If the swearing seems out of place because of proliferation, or lack thereof, then it will stand out.

The second time through, I actually look at the language carefully. Again, if the scenes/language seem out of place, it's going to stand out. This includes swear words and sex scenes. And this time, I'll note the stuff that stands out to me.

So, to answer the question, "Is swearing/sex OK?":

Fuck Yeah!!! But only when it's appropriate.

[CTDeLude]

Time for the conservative Christian to ask something.

Does it glorify Christ? Does it bring people closer to them in one form or another?

[Dan Whitehead]

CTDeLude:
Time for the conservative Christian to ask something.

Does it glorify Christ? Does it bring people closer to them in one form or another?Your question isn't clear. Are you referring to swearing in a story? In real life? Who do you mean when you say closer to "them"? Does it bring the character closer to God? Or the writer? Or the reader?

At the end of the day, no, swearing doesn't glorify Christ. But, unless the curse is blasphemous, nor does it defame Christ or prevent the writer, reader or character from being "closer to them". The whole idea of swearwords is a relatively modern invention. Any negative implications from their use are based on local social strictures, not a spiritual imperative. What is considered a "bad" word varies from year to year, location to location.

Let me reverse the question: does using swearing in a story offend Christ, or move the author further from him?

[Capt. Eucalyptus]

CTDeLude:
Time for the conservative Christian to ask something.

Does it glorify Christ? Does it bring people closer to them in one form or another?SO what if I am writing a story about an ex-Priest who is struggling in his faith, witnesses a death that causes that struggle to deepen, meats a demon and an angel and ultimately has a face to face the the Big Guy? During the course of that story he (and other characters I have no doubt) swear and commit other sins. In the end I have no doubt that he will overcome these struggles (only to be faced with others later).

For that matter what about swear words and adult language in the Bible? They do exist. In the end I agree with Dan. Your question is unclear to me. What does a writer have to do to glorify Christ in his stories? Does that mean they need to sanitize all sin from them? This paints an unrealistic picture of the world. And may give some Christians the confused idea that their salvation is based on their actions, which it isn't.

[Hastur]

This may actually be a good topic for a separate thread: Personal Belief vs. Writing Style. I'll start one.

[Kid Ego]

capteucalyptus (Scott Roche):
Does that mean they need to sanitize all sin from them? This paints an unrealistic picture of the world. And may give some Christians the confused idea that their salvation is based on their actions, which it isn't.Good point. If you give your readers an unrealistic view of the world, then you take them out of the story. The fact of the matter is that people in the world use profanity. Everyone knows this, and everyone knows the words. If you have a murderer in your story that is saying gosh-darn, and it's not part of this character, then it's not a realistic character. The reader will be smacked right in the face with the fact that you don't like to curse, and you're changing this characters actions to suit your personal beliefs...hence, they won't believe the story and will lose interest. However, if you are true to characters and have good character build-up by making them genuine {whether good or bad}, then you capture your audience, and they will go along with the story. The point is that you have to write to what the reader expects of the character. If you stray from it, then don't expect to hold the audience very long.

[CTDeLude]

Easy Scott...obviously this is something close to you and you have been dealing with it for some time. But the spirit of your comments do not reflect kindly.

I do not ask in any mean spirit but just in a way no one has responded yet. I thought about this on my way home tonight and hence my posting at 4 in the morn. I simply ask those questions because of what the Bible says.

"Do all things unto the glory of the Lord" Verse aludes me.

Remember we are the Light unto the world and no matter what the world says it will be Christ we answer to.

So if you feel the story you present does bring Christ in some way or other then fine. If that includes what the world is about and showing its ugliness and compared to the beauty of Christ (in whatever form) then that is right. LOTR is a story of God and yet it is filled with demonic imagery and violence. Yet it still speaks of Christ. Chronicles of Narnia had plenty of magic and talking animals and what not and yet it glorifies Christ.

That is what I am getting at. We have a responsibilty and it must shine through in our actions. Escpecially the things that can heavily influence others in one form or another.

Ultimately I'd say dont take my word for it and just pray about it. It is not an easy thing to answer nor to fulfill.

[CTDeLude]

Kid Ego - Silent but Deadly:
capteucalyptus (Scott Roche):
Does that mean they need to sanitize all sin from them? This paints an unrealistic picture of the world. And may give some Christians the confused idea that their salvation is based on their actions, which it isn't.Good point. If you give your readers an unrealistic view of the world, then you take them out of the story. The fact of the matter is that people in the world use profanity. Everyone knows this, and everyone knows the words. If you have a murderer in your story that is saying gosh-darn, and it's not part of this character, then it's not a realistic character. The reader will be smacked right in the face with the fact that you don't like to curse, and you're changing this characters actions to suit your personal beliefs...hence, they won't believe the story and will lose interest. However, if you are true to characters and have good character build-up by making them genuine {whether good or bad}, then you capture your audience, and they will go along with the story. The point is that you have to write to what the reader expects of the character. If you stray from it, then don't expect to hold the audience very long.Just got done with Tombstone earlier today and made comment to my girlfriend that when I will create bad guys they will be bad. Sadistic. Evil. They don't necessarily have to swear maybe but heinous acts of violence and such will not be beyond their reach and in fact will almost be their staple. They're evil for a reason. They are the antagonist for a reason. A foil to contrast with the hero.

[Coyote]

Yet, strangely, one of the best qualities of a villian in most cases is the ability for the villian to be an anti-hero; that is, he is only the villian because he is in opposition to the hero.
Now, that might be simply because he's trying to obtain a goal using methods that would be considered evil to us...but not to him.
This isn't to say that having avillian so far gone that every act he does is evil, and revels in it...but even Hitler most likely didn't see himself as evil.

Whoops, I invoked Hitler in a debate.

[Capt. Eucalyptus]

Oooh I guess I came across a little stron. My sincere apologies. This is something I am struggling with. My questions are meant to be honest not angry. :)

Is it this you are thinking of ;

1 Peter 4
11If anyone speaks, he should do it as one speaking the very words of God. If anyone serves, he should do it with the strength God provides, so that in all things God may be praised through Jesus Christ. To him be the glory and the power for ever and ever.I'm not sure how to do this in my writing but I am praying and seking wisdom from the people God puts in my life.

[CTDeLude]

It is the stories you bring. The underlying message it unveils to the reader/watcher whether they know it or not. Self-sacrifice. Doing what is right no matter what. You can take morals from the Bible and place them into the story. In fact people don't even have to realize it is there but once it is in there the Holy Spirit will do that rest. I can't totally explain it right here but if it gives glory to God and contains a message to people about the character of Jesus or such reflected in a character or action then you are creating something to the glory of God.

[Capt. Eucalyptus]

Makes sense. Thanks CT.