Ever get the feeling you don't belong anywhere?

[Ludwig]

It has been really bugging me as of late that I don't really fit in anywhere.

I don't think I fit in terribly well here at CHUD, and I think maybe its because my interest in film isn't as strong or broad as other members interest. That and I am just a geek in general, and not geeky over particular things. I appreciate all of nerddom and use it daily.

I fit in absolutely nowhere in Real Life tm either. At my job, people think I'm a bit freaky. My immediate family thinks I'm odd too, but thank God they don't hold it against me too much. My wife has been heard to say "Why can't I have a normal husband?" from time to time, but in an affectionate way. Indeed, my wife suffers from some of the same stuff I do in terms of belonging. I have no real friends here in the city. It's sad. I like myself, don't get me wrong, but lately I have been plagued by self-doubt. Is it better to be an outward indiviual and be misunderstood or is it better to keep quiet, conform, and display your individuality internally? I hate that I feel bad about being the way I am at times. HATE. I hate what I see around me with how people are becoming. I hate the fact that people seem to be getting less and less forgiving of the individual and his place. Meh, I whine, I whine.

Not exactly sure why I posted this here, but given that my only friends are here at CHUD I had to blab at somebody.

Anyone else get the feeling that they don't belong? That you are being tolerated rather than celebrated?

[Blofeld]

You belong, Ludwig.

And from what I hear, you fit perfectly into Will's smallest yard deer.

Come to CHUDWEST '02 for a hug.

[Ludwig]

I can't come to the BBQ. Lack of funds and bad timing are ruining that opportunity for me unfortuneately. Thank you for the kind words though. That yard-deer thing is just a rumour though.

[Blofeld]

You don't fit?

[Blofeld]

Will, can you get a bigger deer?

[Charlie Brigden]

Mike,

Blofeld beat me to it. You do belong.

I've known the feeling of not fitting in all my life. Right now, I fit in pretty well on here (I think), and in that crazy thing called real life. The point is, we all get like this. I'm trying not to give a big condescening spiel that sounds like the footnote from an episode of My So Called Life, but you have a lot of folks here who really dig you a lot. I enjoyed writing for you at Sci, and I really respected the way you interacted with us geeks who wanted to write. Unfortunately, I have so little time, I'm having trouble coming up for anything for Sci right now (I'm sorry, Shelby!). But before I sidetrack anymore, I don't see you in a lot of threads now, and it does sadden me, because I used to really get a kick out of reading your shit (metaphorically). I remember when we had the whole "Matrix ripoff/sucks/rules/whatever" thread, and you seemed to be in there a lot, and I remember thinking it was awesome, because you totally geeked out for something you loved, and that's something I really respect.

So, I just put in a really long-winded way what I can say in two words: you belong.

[Dan Whitehead]

Really, I don't think anybody fits in anywhere. Seriously. There is no big gang that everyone else is in, and you've not been invited. It's just that most people are so used to pretending they understand what's going on around them, they start to think that it's normal. They're the ones who are delusional. You are aware of the cracks and the inconsistencies and this leads to your dilemma. This means you are intelligent and not easily led. To paraphrase Dr. Manhattan, everybody is a puppet - but some of us can see the strings. It's a good thing. Cherish it.

Not being into exactly the same things as other people on here doesn't mean you don't fit in. It means you fit in perfectly. I'm like you, my geekdom is spread far and wide and covers everything from movies to comics to games to art and back to movies again. I find people - or geeks - who are only into one genre or medium are usually pretty dull. Yeah, they may fit in to their particular subculture, but they're a prisoner to it. You want to be able to talk about Kurosawa, Romita, Bukowski - whatever floats your boat.

You've chosen to open yourself up to everything you enjoy, and not restrict yourself to pre-defined cliques for the sake of convenience. It can be a lonelier path, but you'll find the friendships you do forge will be stronger and more rewarding.

[TheOutlawTorn]

Shit man, when I think of the "classic" chewers, you ALWAYS come to mind. You're a CHUD staple. You've got a better sense of humor than damn near anyone here, and I truly wish we saw more of you.

As for the "Real World", I'm not exactly Mr. Normal myself. I'm the black sheep of my family BY FAR, and although my immediate family doesn't hold it against me, I'm not terribly certain about the rest. My girlfriend's family thinks that I'm fucking nuts. Heavy metal t-shirts, loud music, and the fact that I'm in a band (A harmless one at that), seem to signify that I'm the Antichrist. The people at my job not only dislike me, but many of them seem to fear me. I've got one or two friends that I consider close, but I have a feeling that there are alot more who THINK that I consider them close. Truth be told, I don't trust ANY of them. I'm an extremely private person, but at the same time, I'm far from introverted.

To answer your question about retaining your true persona: Be EXACTLY who you are and stay that way. I've learned that people will either learn to deal with you, or they will avoid you, and those that dig you will stick around. Fuck 'em if they want you to be something you aren't. From what I gather based on your CHUDlife, you're a great guy. I can't imagine being in the same room with you and Poxy without laughing my crotch against the ceiling.

Obviously, this post has turned into a series of random sentences that are somewhat related, so I'll end it by saying: You make CHUD a better place to come to. You not only belong, but your place has been cemented here. I like you.

[Brian Ross]

Call me crazy, but not fitting in can be a good thing. Einstein didnt fit in.
It can also mean your a leader, you dont follow the trail of everyone else. Pave your own path.

[Ludwig]

I wasn't anicipating the responses thus far guys! Thank you ever so much for sharing all of this with me. I just get so bummed out sometimes over all of this you know? It seems like a lot of you have similar things happen to you out in the world. I am wondering then if it was by chance or by design that all of us ended up here?

[Burke]

WE like you. Not quite as much as Sally Field, but close. Very close.

[Dan Whitehead]

Mike Arsenault (Ludwig):
I am wondering then if it was by chance or by design that all of us ended up here?Does anyone else keep building models of a mountain out of mashed potato, or is that just me? :D

[Brian Ross]

Well speaking of mountains

<a href="http://chud.nexcess.net/board/ubbhtml/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=24;t=002072" target="_blank">http://chud.nexcess.net/board/ubbhtml/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=24;t=002072</a>

Here are some of another substance.

[Ludwig]

And the award for best derailment of a thread goes to...Brian Ross!

[Brian Ross]

Why I am so honored. I would like to thank my sick sense of humor, and my perverted wit.

[Dan Whitehead]

Brian Ross:
Why I am so honored. I would like to thank my sick sense of humor, and my perverted wit.And your bowels of steel, obviously.

[Ludwig]

&lt;sigh&gt; it never fails. I come to CHUD to bleed my heart and it ends up turning to discussions about shit.

[Brian Ross]

No offense meant. It should be taken seriously.
I respect you if you are yourself and not try to fit in completly. I have tried to myself but ended up being bored and well sometimes lonley. Don't repress yourself.

[Ludwig]

Sorry, I should have capped off that respose with a smiley. The discussion degenerating to talk of massive turds actually broke me out of my funk a bit, so derail away!

[voltes5]

Alright, the name Ludwig is synonymous with CHUD. You also have that awesome sigfile that is forever embedded in my memory. You are also one of the toughest and the most sensitive Chewer ever. You take insults easily then playfully fight back without malice and offense. If you feel like a different breed of geek here in CHUD, then that's great! We need a variety of geekiness here. If we were all like the film encyclopedia Nick Nunziata, then we'll be basically boring (though cool in some ways, but I digress). And will I ever forget your picture with the stripper with the huge knockers? No, Ludwig, you are and forever will be CHUD. You belong here. You are the beacon of the foggy night. (Sorry, I just ran out of imaginative compliments.)

That said, I do share your same feelings. For example, I rarely hang around the Sex forum because of reasons you know about. In real life, I live the life of a loner, and spending time in CHUD is one of my treasured times. I should learn to socialize more, but I'm just that type of lonesome beast.

But, dammit, Ludwig. Don't feel you don't belong here. You're the coolest Chewer and Person I know, and not to mention, really, really sexy -- despite your caribou fetishes. eek!

[Swykk]

I agree with you and I too am noticing more and more just how little I fit into everything....CHUD included. No one really cares what I post, in fact no one will probably respond to this. About a month ago I started a thread to ask for help with some problems I've been having because I've seen other chewers reach out like that and have gotten some good advice. Guess what? Not a single person posted. I know none of you are required to post a damn thing but that time, I could have used it. Aside from about 5 chewers (2 of which I know, one of which is a friend of someone I know), no one has really made me feel welcome here(again not your jobs to but it would be nice). I still come here because I like the site and the news and all of you (mostly), but damn, it would be nice to get a little love back.

In real life, it's much the same. All but two of my friends have girlfriends and when I'm with them, dammit, I know they love me but I don't feel like I belong. They(friends w/grilfriends) were talking about going to Indiana Beach for a weekend and I just had no desire to go. Other than that, the only thing I have in common with my other friends(besides Cropsy and Hallsy) is pretty much wrestling(that IS in fact how we all originally came together). I feel like I wear out my welcome with them and that copping this attitude is pushing them further away but I can't help it. A couple of said friends have joined CHUD recently and will probably read this. To them, I say don't get pissed, it's not you. I've been struggling with a lot of demons lately and all of this post could be a product of my paranoia/anxiety, I'm not sure (I think the 50 facts about me thread had a lot to do with unearthing these feelings again). It could be because I'm getting older and have next to nothing going for me like say a career and a woman I love.

Not fitting in is cool sometimes but lately I'm getting annoyed with not even feeling comfortable in the company of close friends.

But hey, I'm going to end this rant before I change my mind and decide not to post any of this.

[Ludwig]

So many new people have joined CHUD these last few months that I have been unable to keep up with all of the threads in all of the posts. What happened that you needed input or help with Swykk?

And Voltes, you magnificent fuck, I will be taking pictures of myself in flannel shirts just for you this weekend with my mother-in-law's digital camera. And no, I'm not kidding!

[Seahawk]

There once was a man named Ludwig.

He had a thing for caribou.

Then he bamboozled some more caribou.

Only to find he had a canoodle....

ummm..&lt;looks around as silence reigns&gt;

Ludwid es 'Da Sexy!

[Frost]

I've only been around since April, but I think I've gotten a pretty good lay of the land in that time, and in that time I always thought "This Ludwig guy, he must be *the man*." In fact, I can recall many individual posts from everyone who's posted in this thread that made me either nod in knowing agreement or laugh like a lunatic.

And Swykk, I must've missed the post of which you speak, there's no doubt I would've had something to add.

That said, I'll agree with what's been mentioned. I've pretty much resigned myself to the fact that at work or at home, initiating conversations about DVD commentary tracks, Garth Ennis, or the history of WaxTrax! Records will get me nothing but blank stares. While it does occasionally get me down that most people, including my wife, have no interest or even *gasp!* disdain for my interests. For me, that's what CHUD is for. While I don't feel at home here yet, I love reading everyone's opinions and ideas, and picking up suggestions on movies, comics, and music. As far as I'm concerned, everyone who takes the time to be here helps make this place the wonderful, sticky mueslix that it is.

[HizHonorDaMayer]

Blofeld:
You belong, Ludwig.

And from what I hear, you fit perfectly into Will's smallest yard deer.

Come to CHUDWEST '02 for a hug.Could you explain this further. It sounds really dirty.

[Kronos]

I fit better than ever! And it's costing me buying new clothes!

[Mz. D'kay1369]

not fitting in is part of life. and no offence to anyone, but i doubt you are more freaky than i. it's hard to keep people around you when they don't understand why you MUST HAVE SHRUNKEN HEADS!! it's for decorating... don't the get it? so don't worry about being odd, everyone is. and the more normal they seem the worse they are. the ones who let you see what freaks they are tend to be the most well adjusted. you are loved by your fellow freaks. wallow in it.

[voltes5]

Mike Arsenault (Ludwig):
And Voltes, you magnificent fuck, I will be taking pictures of myself in flannel shirts just for you this weekend with my mother-in-law's digital camera. And no, I'm not kidding!Ludwig, you're getting my hopes way too high. If you're just teasing I'm gonna swimfan@ your ass!

[Swykk]

The thread was asking how to get over things I had been(and have been) not getting over. I was toitally into this girl I met at Barnes and Nobles. I don't mean I had a crush...this WAS the girl for me. But she IS married(unhapilly was the way I and my friends who met her took it). She described her marriage as "a boyfriend with dental insurance." So I'm totally like "I'm scum for even hanging out with this girl. This can only lead to something completely horrible for me." And it did- we decided it wasn't healthy for either of us to keep hanging out(because the attarction was growing stronger) and she felt she owed her husband the vow they made(understandable). I can't get over her. I haven't had the desire to get with or talk to anyone else. Any sort of "clicking" you need to be attracted to someone was there on both sides. She probably still comes here every once in awhile to read threads...maybe she'll see this one.

The other part of it was like I said, I'm not motivated anymore to do anything(besides meeting girls). The other post I made about not feeling right around my friends even though I love them-that too. I guess I was asking how do I get over her and motivated to try again?

[Blofeld]

Swyyk -- two things: time and your thinking needs to be readjusted.

Here's the thinking part: she isn't/wasn't the girl for you. She's married.

[DJ Dylan]

I have never felt like I fit in anywhere. A good example being my current job. Everyone disrespects me there, except for Heart, for obvious reasons. Which is why im getting the hell out of that job ASAP.

[amadeus]

I've always felt like I don't fit in here. I've been coming to the CHUD boards for quite a while now, and for the first six months or so, I really wanted to belong. I went out of my way to maintain a friendly, likeable persona, did my best to impress with intelligent posts. This didn't seem to register a blip with anyone, perhaps because I didn't forsake my burgeoning real-world social life to rack up 8000 posts in one year. And then all these Random Chewer "Appreciation" threads started popping up, and suddenly there was all this giant love-in, which I would never be a part of. And finally I was berated by HAM in a private message, for allegedly not loving movies at all. That hurt, to say the least, because it showed me just how little impact I'd made here. And others must have taken issue with some post of mine -- my "member rating" sunk to 0.91.

After a while I just decided not to bother trying anymore. Should I give up on the outside world just to truly establish myself on a message board? No. Some people seem to have done so by simply posting "HAHA" thousands of times. That's not me. Should I congratulate and pander to strangers who will probably end up with the wrong impression anyway? No. I'm not here for the faceless little family, I'm not married to CHUD. I'm here to express my opinion. I'm here to talk about movies, which I love. And that's why I will keep coming back here. With pleasure!

The self-indulgent little ramble above will make me sound like a depressive or an arrogant prick. Oh well, what's new?

[voltes5]

Darth, thank you for sharing that.

We all want to belong in some ways. The thing is, sometimes we can't find the right "group" to hang out with. CHUD may be part of the "faceless internet message boards" but there is a REAL community here. Whether you feel that you belong here or not should not be your main concern. Just be yourself and don't say things just because a certain group or majority will agree with you. Speak your heart and mind and with utter conviction. You've done that in that post, and it's commendable.

In the end, your real life is more important. Don't "make a name" here in CHUD. Be yourself. I started out with a false idea of who I was; but then I started to get to know people better and I slowly opened up more. Still, it's also good practice not to be TOO open about yourself. This is, after all, STILL the internet.

Not sure if I'm making any sense or any points at all, but I just want to say that if you're still here lurking/posting, then you ultimately like or love it here. And that is what's more important.

[yt]

It is a sucky feeling to write something and not get any response. I'm sorry I didn't respond to your note, swykk, and darth algar, you have stood out a lot to me, maybe b/c you were one of the first to post your picture in that thread a few months back. And Ludwig, I've been here for over 2 years and I can't remember a time when you haven't been a huge part of message board life and always a warm and friendly voice.

In r.l., I move around in a lot of strange disparate groups but don't feel a part of any of them. I see people who are comfortable with groups of people and I can't understand it. In any social situation involving more than one person (other than my family), a moment doesn't go by that I don't glance at the door and bite back the panic. Especially at work.

I don't know what i'm trying to say. I guess that you're not alone. I was surprised to hear a very smart and funny chewer tell me he thought he killed threads. That blew my mind. We shouldn't give up on each other, but threads like this (and the 50 facts thing) do help create a clearer picture of the individuals here.

[voltes5]

yt:
It is a sucky feeling to write something and not get any response.Personally, I try to read every thread there is and I'll have something to say but normally end up not doing so. It's either because I'm lazy or I'd rather do something else. But, mostly, it's because I'd like to have a "meaningful" response; so I tend to censor myself when I feel that what I wanted to say is not "good enough." Furthermore, I would then think that someone else will eventually reply to the orphaned post.

[imported_Adam Warren]

Ludwiggums,

You gigantic caribou fucker, belonging is what you make of it.

[Mz. D'kay1369]

Swykk, what you need to do, and i am 100% serious about this, you need to fuck as many chicks as you can. have as much meaningless sex as you can humanly stand. do it NOW!! the first few girls, you'll be thinking about HER, but then after about number 4 or 5 you'll stop doing that and be more interested in the cool sounds and reactions you can get from the girl you are with. don't try to make any emotional attachments, try to be friends with them, but nothing more. you'll feel better. oh, and use protection!! this might be better on the Sex board, my bad!

on a more *not Hijacking the thread note*, i have been here for only about a month and have not had any bad run-ins with anyone. i try to read as many of the posts as i can, but don't always respond. you guys are great! it's a pleasure to come here and read. It's NICE to be here and post things. i feel that almost everyone fits in really well. and in the month that i have been here i have already "met" some very nice people. ones who can understand needing Shurnken heads, for decorationg, you know.... ^_^ freaks belong together.

[Jacob Singer]

Ludwig, suck it up and go make me a sandwich.

You know what I like.

And a soda, too. Dammit.

:D

[Michael Rabattino]

I don't fit in particularly well.

I'd like to think I fit in here, on CHUD, since movies are my life. But yet, i'm nowhere NEAR someone like Tony in terms of knowledge. Not even on the same page with that.

But, say in High School for instance I only had a handful of good friends and I didn't even like 75% of them.

I don't conform, though. I only conformed twice: once when I started buying Iverson sneakers, and another time when I got blonde highlights in my hair like 2 years ago. Got rid of them quickly.

Other than that....I stay myself. I don't listen to people, unless they recommend a movie or a game or a book or a tv show.

[Ludwig]

Swykk,

If this woman is describing her HUSBAND like this, you have to wonder how she is going to describe YOU to some other guy should she actually get a divorce and hook up with you. She sounds like a little girl who is afraid that she is going to miss out on something by committing to just one guy. My spider-sense was tingling when I was reading your post. My advice? Do what Madame Decay has suggested and just get out there and have some meaningless fun. Maybe not sex, but shit, go to an all-night rave and dance like a fool. Go see some MOVIES. Go to coffee shops and READ. Do whatever it is you like doing for fun and think about the possibility of meeting someone who will respect you enough to not flirt with you while married. This chick is BAD NEWS and must be avoided at all costs.

Voltes, I pick up the digital camera tonight, and I will be posting some pictures of me in the Navy today just for shits and giggles. My way of saying "Thanks for your support!".

Ms.Dkay, I am beginning to appreciate the fact that there are tons of people here that are going through what I was going through a few days ago. It was hard for me to conceptualize this because I was feeling so isolated here you know? My wife and I were talking a few nights ago, just kinda trying to figure out stuff. 99% of our friends (from the Navy, we were both in the Navy for like 11+ years) dropped us like yesterday's news when we decided to get married and have a child. The remaining 1% dropped us once we left the Navy. So for a few years now, we haven't met very many people we could be friends with. Most of the other married couples we have met that are our own age act like fucking idiots...they never spend any time with their kids, constantly go out or work and basically behave the same way they have always behaved you know? And I am 30! You would think that the young 20's behaviour would end after awhile, no? We have one set of new friends (our next-door neighbours) who are in their 40's but who have really made an effort to get to know us, and us them. They are coming over this evening for coffee and to hang out with us and our kids. I am hoping that at least I will be able to not weird them out to the point that they bolt their doors.

Jacob, yessir! Right away sir!

To the rest of you that have been posting, thanks for sharing your feelings on this. It means a lot to hear form all of you and to hear the things you have to go through just being you.

[Ludwig]

To Darth and the rest who don't seem to be getting any post love, just pretend to be female...

Kidding!

I am not sure why this happens. There are a few people I have come across who suffer from the same thing Darth. All I can advise is keep plugging away, and classily if at all possible! People might not say it, but intelligent posting is always welcome. I don't have the time it seems to see every single thread anymore, nor post in every thread. I had a fit of time last week from work because my workload was low enough that I could actually surf, but this upcoming week should be much busier (new project).

[Xymog (Mike Toot)]

Fitting in, in general:

I've never hung with the "in crowd." Heck, I've never been on anyone's "IT list." And I prefer it that way -- I meet much more interesting people, people with depth, character, and interesting stories to tell, who aren't anywhere near an IT zone. As Gertrude Stein famously observed, "There's no there, there." It's just not worth the time and effort to pursue that kind of nonsense.

Don't waste time trying to "fit in." It means you're chasing some non-existent image that isn't you. Hang instead with people who have interesting things to say, who make you think, or have interesting stories to tell.

My wife and I have friends who are real people, not cardboard cutouts. Some acquaitances we used to know decided to become shallow and materialistic -- hang with rich Microsofties, go to the best restauraunts, become societal hangers-on. We don't keep in touch anymore because it's a waste of time; they only want to talk about who they know, where they've been, and why my wife and I just don't measure up.

My brother-in-law and his wife are also on the no-contact-anymore list. They are selfish, self-centered, and unaware of anything in the world beyond their four walls. It's useless to talk to them about anything that doesn't have them as the central topic. Count us out.

Moral of the story: Follow your bliss. Go where your head and heart tell you, not where society thinks you ought to go. The journey will be far more interesting and you'll have cooler stories to tell.

[Swykk]

To all that responded, thank you, your advice is appreciated. Mz. D'Kay, great advice, but I've never been able to have that meaningless sex. I want to do that, believe me, I do. My friends have been recommending that for like 2 years now. Girls don't really speak to me at all and I'm not unattractive(if I had someone with a scanner/camera I'd have a pic up in my profile). I don't get it...at all. I agree with the comments about her probably doing the same thing to me, though. I guess I don't know how NOT to care about someone who gets that close to me. Maybe that's a problem...

To Xymog, I'm not complaining/upset about not being in the in crowd, I just like fitting in among people I want to fit in with (friends I have, CHUD, etc...).

Again, thanks guys. I really do appreciate this.

[Chavez]

Ludwig, when I think CHUD, you're one of the names that pops into mind.

Cripes, EVERYONE feels that they don't belong at times. And generally, the ones who tend to have that feeling a lot are the cool people who DON'T belong with all the meatheaded assholes out there in the real world, so that should actually be reassuring.

Yeah, I know I'm late to the party and Ludwig's already feeling better, but oh well....consider it another positive mental wave coming your way NEXT time you're depressed! wink

Mike Arsenault (Ludwig)

I am not sure why this happens. There are a few people I have come across who suffer from the same thing Darth. All I can advise is keep plugging away, and classily if at all possible! People might not say it, but intelligent posting is always welcome. Hear, hear. I've been here a while, and I don't really register with many, but there are a few people who for whatever reason (it seems to be either related to being in agreement or disagreement on lots of things) recognize me running around.

If you comport yourself with class on the boards, Nick will always welcome you. As will the majority of the others; think of it as a big party - the guy who gets drunk and starts picking fights is remembered by EVERYBODY, but not too fondly; the cool guy in the corner with the various interests and witty repartee may only be remembered by a handful, but they'll think about what a swell guy he was. :D

[General Zod]

Luddy, you are a prince amoung men. From all of us at the Sci-fighter, we tumble for ya.

As for fitting in, no one is more of a sore thumb than myself.

I can't relate to about 85% of the population, but I dont try to fit in anymore, I just be me and if anyone has a problem with that, they can sit and spin.

Always remember, being a sheep sucks.

[billylove]

I may be a little late to this thread, but here's my view on the whole 'fitting in thing'.

I have never fitted in, except in elementary school. Then I figured out, that it would be more fun if I made my own waves, created my own group of friends, etc.

Ever since then I had a new appreciation for self confidence and would proudly walk by myself, eat by myself, hang out by myself.

There were drawbacks of not fitting in. Some times I wanted to chat with someone, but there was no one around to strike up a meaningful conversation, etc.

Here lately I just relocated to a new state half way across the US. Very far away from any of my friends, relatives, etc.

Now I am faced with creating my own social groups as before. I am again intimidated with the task, but it hasn't stopped me from becoming who I want to be and who I like to socialize with, because I know that when I do create my own social group, it will be my social group and it will be the best.

--------

I'm going to step off my high horse, but before I do. I have one more thing to say, and to summarize my rant.

If you don't fit in, make your own group. If people don't appreciate you, don't give a shit and keep on searching for those people that do.

Always be yourself. You will be much happier if you do.

Don't ever be affraid of taking chances, and don't ever get down on yourself.

(Insert SNL "Good enough, smart enough" skit here)

[Mz. D'kay1369]

Xymog, can i be on your IT list? wink

Swykk, well to be honest i can't do the meaningless sex thing either. i have to actually like someone to let them touch me. just seems easier for guys. then ignore the sex part and go for fun. hit the clubs, go places you have never gone before. take a trip. i have met some cool people that way. dress yourself and be yourself. if someone can't take you as is, then they don't deserve you. anyone who has ever come up to me when i am dressed in my "normal" clothes has turned out to be a cool person and good friend.

Ludwig, you're the spiffiest! people are odd, once you leave their little world they seem to be anable to realte anymore. kinda like married vs. single, kids vs. no kids, dunks, vs. sobers. it's just the way most people are, just not all people. don;t hide yourself completely fron your neighbors, cause kids talk and they will learn your freakish ways! wink

[Xymog (Mike Toot)]

Mz. Dkay:

You're definitely on my IT list! But just remember what Groucho Marx said: "I'd never join any club that would have me as a member." Consider yourself warned. &lt;G&gt;

[Mz. D'kay1369]

HEH! the addition of me can only mean sure destruction of your club, seeing as how i am the great corruptor and all... wink but in the mean time we'll have one helluva party!

[Mad Man Mundt]

Wise words above Xymog.