The new war...

[Dj Homeless]

...and I'm disappointed. I was around for the Nintendo/Sega saga. Heck, even the last round was sort of interesting (not between the PSX and N64, but the Dreamcast and PSX) until Sega went under. But this new batch are pathetic!!

PS2 is the clear cut lead right now, and it ain't right. Sure, slowly more and more kick ass games are getting out there, but it's been slow. With the exception of a couple of games, I haven't seen a lot of originality either. Sony is getting lazy, and they might as well, because what's their competition?

Xbox??? Hah, they need a big game, fast. In fact, they need a lot of games. With Halo being their only big gun, they're sinking fast. Add that with the fact that the general population is wary of another Microsoft product, the Xbox might be your next 3DO. Or Lynx. Or Jaguar. Turbo Grafix 16. Neo Geo *sniff*

Gamecube? I had HOPED Nintendo was going to come out guns ablazing and beat the hell out of PS2. Hasn't happened yet. I don't care what lame excuse they give, they're sinking too. Luigi's Mansion?? Neat idea, but not as a front runner. But to be fair, I'm getting excited for them later this year. Star Fox, Zelda, Metroid, Mario, all coming back at once? Oh, we might get a scrap fest out of this yet...

...competition brings out the best in the companies, but with games going to all platforms, and a seemingly rest period right now, I'm cracking open my PSX and Super Nintendo. I'm sure everyone disagree's with me, but I just want all three systems to be neck and neck. THAT way I get awesome game after awesome game. I get risky games, niche games coming out for variety....

[Ryo Hazuki]

Fair arguement, but in X-box's case they did it to themselves. MS thought that launch was everything, and if you had alot of killer games atlaunch you didn't have to worry about it until the next holiday season came around. They thought if they had a "Golden Eye",HALO, game out for launch then nobody would care if they didn't have any other games. Last holiday season it seemed that for every hit title that X-box had, PS2 had about 5. To counter this MS, doesn't try and make better games, they just buy the company that makes that game i.e. Rockstar games, or they get a Tony Hawk 2 to come on there system when everyone is play Tony Hawk 3 for PS2. Like what happened with Halo, it was originally supposed to be for the PC, but then midway through development MS bought the company that makes it. For the most part all that did was piss gamers off, and not buy an X-box just to spite MS. Now did some PC gamers buy an X-box to play Halo, yeah, but not in the numbers that MS was hoping for. Also when MS, bought the rights to Shenmue 2. The game was f****** done for DC, and ready to ship, but now it is an X-box exclusive only in the US, for godsakes Europe got the DC version, again all it did was piss gamers off. Now in my case just to spite MS I bought the European version of Shenmue 2 for $75, including the PAL converter, and saved my self a hell of alot of money.

As for Gamecube, I got no problem with them at least they have games to look forward to. I'm getting a GC when Metriod comes out or even earlier when RE comes out for it.

I have PS2, and I know I have a lot of games to look forward too, and plus they always have good games coming out during every season.

[OvermindX]

All I have to say is that GameCube is gonna OWN this Christmas.

[Micah Robinson]

I think you guys are selling the Xbox WAAAAAY short.

I just got one because of the impending lineup of goodness on the way.

Superman, Project Ego, Robotech, Sega GT 2002, Rainbow Six 3, Shenmue 2, Return to Castle Wolfenstein, Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic, and plenty of other cool thrid party games.

For a casual gamer like myself, that's more than enough.

[Dennis]

I own and love all three systems and I think that each has their pros and cons. If I had to choose one to keep I would choose the Xbox. I agree that there are not a lot of must have titles right now, but playing a game like Halo gives me great hope for this system.

There are, as Micah pointed out, a number of very good titles coming to the Xbox in the future.

There are also a number of very good titles coming to the Gamecube and PS2 in the future.

As a video game lover I hope that each of the systems does very well because that means that I will have more choices available in the future.

[Alain]

The Playstation 2 does have the largest game library of any system I've seen, due it's backwards compatibility with PS1 games (A majority of them at least). Personally I was hoping that the PS2 would offer an updated controller, but that's minor. The PS2 is also a DVD player, right out of the box (unlike the XBOX, where you have to buy a controller just to access that functionality)

Interestingly enough, the XBOX shows the most promise IMO. First of all I love the fact that it has an 8 GIG internal drive so you don't have to use those annoying memory cards. The controller is HUGE, since I have big hands this works out very well.

Now, I don't have a Gamecube, but I'm probably going to have to splurge because the Resident Evil series is moving to that system. I've seen some screen shots for the new one coming out and it looks amazing. I've heard that the controller for the system is very intuitive as well. I may follow up and discuss this further.

Obviously the key to this "war" is in the games that come out for the systems. As more and more third party developers make specific games for particular systems THEN you'll start to see who gets the edge.

Note:This happened back in '96 when Resident Evil launched in the original Playstation exclusively. That alone gave the PS1 the edge over the Sega Saturn (The N64 hadn't even been released yet).

[Michael Rabattino]

I think the X-Box is asspants.

Why?

It's the quality of original games on every other system. More than half of X-Box is ports. A whole shitload of games that i've already played, that a lot of people have already played. By the time Shenmue 2 comes out, you should have already imported it for DC.

Go ahead and get an X-Box, but the real race is between GC and PS2.

[Micah Robinson]

Verbal Kint:
I think the X-Box is asspants.

Why?

It's the quality of original games on every other system. More than half of X-Box is ports. A whole shitload of games that i've already played, that a lot of people have already played. By the time Shenmue 2 comes out, you should have already imported it for DC.

Go ahead and get an X-Box, but the real race is between GC and PS2.Actually, the real race is between Nintendo and their first party developers to churn out just ONE must-play system-selling title.

The fact that they almost ALWAYS delay big games beyond their announced dates (anyone remember the Perfect Dark debacle?) means its unlikely that they'll have Metroid, Mario, and Zelda out this year. You'll probably have to settle for ONE or two of those games at the most. And besides those....what else is there?

I listed a shitload of Xbox EXCLUSIVE titles (with the exception of Robotech), and that's just what's announced NOW. E3 is sure to have even more surprises.

PS2 is a great console, no doubt. I enjoyed mine a lot. But I grew bored with it. Metal Gear Solid 2 was a disappointing bore. I never cared about Final Fantasy. And slowly I began to see that there was little that Sony had as an exclusive title that I cared about.

So why not switch to the "big dog" in terms of graphic power, hard drive storage, and CPU muscle?

[mongycore]

exactly Micah...that is why I only play things via the PC. Consoles come and go but my trusty crAptiva has gone through several revisions and upgrades over the years and outlived some of the older mid 90's toys.

GTA3 and Tony Hawk 3 are on the way to us patient pc gamers who bided our time with immersive titles like Ghost Recon, Medal of Honor, and Arcanum: Magick and Steamworks Obscura.

We have (at the moment) pc exclusive gems like Freedom Force and Dungeon Siege. Sure the xbox will get a star wars fps in the form of Obi-wan but nowhere will it rival the goodness that is Jedi Knight 2: Jedi Outcast or even Dark Forces 2: Jedi Knight

That's the only problem I've had with the xbox is the fact that it's a dumbed down pc. Sure you get the promise of ease of use and stability (with the never changing system specs) but I forsee someday lazy developers unloading buggy software on yous guys too, prompting you to save those patches on your hard drives. It's happened before (Tetris Worlds for GBA and Vigilante 8 for DC come to mind), and it will happen again.

As for being a pc snob, I'm not. I still love my DC and the quality games it served...sometimes I shed a tear for it's unnecessary demise. And I'm very much looking forward to plunking down some green later on this year when the better cube games start appearing.

As for PS2, their line up of games have never really caught my attention to warrant a purchase of a unit. Nor do the graphics come close to the joy that is a Geforce 4 video card.

As for sound, nothing beats an Audigy Platinum soundcard coupled with some Klipsch Pro-media 5.1 speakers.

As for this whole new war thing, discounting my pc gaming rantings...ps2 is dominating but hopefully the cube will smack those bitches down later on this year.

[Dennis]

The reason that many of the Xbox games are ports right now is that software companies are scurrying to get titles out for the 1.5 million + owners out there.

Alain, the Gamecube controller is the primary reason that I love that system. Funny thing is the first time I touched it in a store I thought that Nintendo had blown it with a crappy controller. But play with it for an hour and you will fall in love. The quality of the Nintendo titles continues to be very high and the mini discs although limiting are rather nice from a handling perspective. Other reasons to get a Cube: RE, Godzilla, Mario, Star Fox, Zelda.

I, like you, wish that there was a better controller option for the PS2, it just feels rather foreign compared to the Xbox and Cube.

I picked up a Japanese Xbox controller this weekend and I love it, except the fact that the cord is about 8 inches shorter than the original for some reason.

Alain and Micah, you need to help me nudge Nick into the Xbox world. I almost had him on Friday but he narrowly escaped despite a very generous offer on my part.

As for the PS2, I love it! I put off buying one last year because I was still heart broken over the DC and I wanted to wait on the other two before I made a decision. I debated long and hard between the PS2 and Xbox but decided on the Xbox (the race went all the way down to the moment that I payed for the Xbox)and bought my PS2 later. I love the huge library of games, although you still must be careful because many of them are pure crap. I'm currently playing MGS2 and Baldurs Gate and I am impressed with both of them. My concern for the PS2 is what appears to be a shrinking number of exclusive titles.

I wish I had the nerve to do more PC gaming but my home PC is shared by my wife and daughter and it seems that every time I load a new game the system crashes.

[Dj Homeless]

Whew I started a barn-burner....anyhoo..

X-box is one system that I really hoped would just bow out. Not because of it's superior machinery (if that's a word) but because of what Verbal Kint said. Now, sure, the X-box hasn'tbeen doing just ports...yet. I don't trust Mircosoft from it's past, and until they prove that they just won't turn the flavor of the month FPS onto the X-box, I ain't bitin' their line. I need variety, not dumbed down "ooh look, this weapon fires purple stuff!" games.

Now, while I agree PC has good games, like I said, I need variety. Not another frackin' FPS, or simulation or battle-rpg what ever the hell Blizzard comes up with. I've always found console to be better at games than the PC. Just my opinion though.

As for the controllers, the X-box is a monstrosity (heh..GTA3), the PS2 is perfect so why mess with it, and the Gamecube needs a little getting used to, but it feels just fine (unlike the N64. What were they thinking??).

I, like all of you, really wish things would pick up. I need good games. I need quirky games like "Tecmo's Deception" to once again rise. Gamecube has GOT to get this "we're a cutsy-wutsy company" attitude away! So thank god for "Resident Evil"...mmmm.....zombie's...

X-box needs to make an impression. The only title that made me go "whoa" is Shenmue 2, because the rest, gasp, are either coming out on computer, or rumored to go to other systems. X-box needs a Mario, a PSX-like Crash, something to call their own now that Halo's light is dying.

And Playstation needs to get off their lazy ass before either one of these two systems kicks their behind in. State of Emergency and Frequency, love 'em or hate 'em, is a start.

Right now, as weird as it sounds, I need to go beat "Mike-Tyson's Punch-Out!"

[Michael Rabattino]

OK, if you can't find variety on the PC, you aren't looking too hard.

And you think 2 titles make PS2 vulnerable? PS2 has a game coming out later this year that is easily gonna be more exciting and fresh than any other console can put out.

It's called Kingdom Hearts.

And I swear, Shenmue 2 on X-Box is gonna be nothing new to people. The true fans have already imported it for DC and when they finished, they lent it to their friends. I doubt it will be too successful.

[LlamaRama]

No variety on the PC? Just the other day, I made a list of console games I wanted to rent, and realized well over 2/3's of them were sequels, and almost half were the third (or fourth, or fifth..) iteration of that particular series. Consoles are the systems with the variety problem. GTA3, Tony Hawk 3, Metal Gear Solid 2, Zelda, Mario, Metroid. These are all excellent games, but they're also all sequels and are very similar to their previous incarnations, or at least have many of the same basic gameplay elements.

Then you look at the PC. Deus Ex, Black and White, Freedom Force, The Sims. All these bring something completely unique to the table. And while innovative console games are few and far between, innovative PC games appear regularly.

And while on the subject of console wars, the real race is between the Xbox and GC, in my opinion. The PS2 is already established, and I doubt millions of Final Fantasy fanboys will abandon it anytime soon (okay, so I'm a little bitter at Sony for helping kill the DC).

[Django]

People seem to forget that Square is now working on Gamecube titles, a first for any Nintendo system in what, 10 years or more?

So I wouldn't be too surprised if Final Fantasy shows up on Gamecube in the not too distant future.

As for me, I don't own any of the big three. Since I play very, very rarely anymore, they are all a little too expensive for my blood.

However, goddamn Gamecube has me playing it every time I enter Toys R Us, Best Buy, Target, you name it. I have never been inclined to do the same with either the PS2 or XBox.

There is nothing on or coming soon to the XBox that flips my switch. The PS2 has a few and I'm sure I'll get one eventually, but not anytime soon.

I waited years to pick up the PS1, N64, and Dreamcast. Hell, I didn't get the last two until the systems were DOA.

And I have the most fun playing those 2 than any system I've owned since the original NES.

I think I'm going Gamecube.

It has Mario, Metroid, and Zelda.

It has the Star Wars games...at least the ones I want to play.

If it tanks, who cares?

Shooters and RPGs come and go. Some grow old, some grow cold.

But there's only one Nintendo. And you can fool yourself into thinking it's only for kids.

I've got better things to delude myself on...

[Ryo Hazuki]

The ultimate winner in this race is going to be the company that makes you feel most nostalgic, imo. PS2 is giving the nostalgic feeling with Kingdom Hearts, FFXI, and all the FF remake, rumor havng it that FF7 is going to get the same treatment that RE 1 has been getting from GC, and also the whole FF7 score will be orchestrated for the remake. GC is doing it like only Nintendo can with their three horsemen: Mario, Zelda, and Metriod. All I can say is that this Christmas is going to get real interesting.

[Dennis]

Django Tai Fei:


So I wouldn't be too surprised if Final Fantasy shows up on Gamecube in the not too distant future.

A version of some sort has already been announced (from IGN):

<a href="http://cube.ign.com/articles/355/355167p1.html" target="_blank">Final Fantasy on Gamecube</a>

[Nick Hexum]

Some interesting facts: In the year 2001, out of the top 20 best-selling games, 10 of them were from Sony(PS and PS2), while only one X-Box game made it on the list(Halo,#14) and one Gamecube game(Super Smash Bros.,#19). And even though the amount of systems being sold is important, without the games, comsumers have a $200+ paper weight collecting dust in their entertainment centers. Now my opinion is not biased, but who can actually keep a straight face and say that X-box and Gamecube deserved more sales than PS2? To me, Microsoft and Nintendo are wasting good hardware. Sony's second coming earned it's spot up front, with all the killer games it's had this year. For Nintendo and Microsoft, they better get their acts together and give us some damn games here, or else they may following in the footsteps of the Dreamcast and N64.

[DJ Dylan]

I dont see the XBOX or the Gamecube taking over the place of the PS2.

[Ryo Hazuki]

Will X-box or GC beat the PS2, hell no, but I still am buying a GC for Metriod Prime :D .

[LlamaRama]

I find it hard to believe no one has mentioned Rare. That's Nintendo's secret weapon. Nintendo itself seems incapable of making games for a mature audience, but Rare has no problem doing just that. Not to mention the fact that Perfect Dark is arguably better than any game on the N64 other than Zelda, and Goldeneye is one of the most universally loved games ever. If they can do a few more like that for the GC, it could flip this whole war on its head...

[Dennis]

Nick Hexum:
Some interesting facts: In the year 2001, out of the top 20 best-selling games, 10 of them were from Sony(PS and PS2), while only one X-Box game made it on the list(Halo,#14) and one Gamecube game(Super Smash Bros.,#19).I would have to think that this is skewed by the fact that Sony had virtually free reign in the marketplace for over ten months.

[OvermindX]

Django Tai Fei:

Shooters and RPGs come and go. Some grow old, some grow cold.

But there's only one Nintendo. And you can fool yourself into thinking it's only for kids.

I've got better things to delude myself on...HOLY FUCKING SHIT I AGREE WITH DJANGO.

Honestly man, you couldn't have said it better.

[OvermindX]

Everything you guys are saying about Nintendo is what has been called the Nintendo Difference.

THAT is why I own a Nintendo system.

If they went third party and started developing exclusively for XBOX, believe me, I would buy an XBOX.

Nintendo is hands down, the best game developing company, EVER.

[Django]

Granted GTA 3 is fun.

But not "Goldeneye" fun.

Certainly not "Metroid" fun.

And without a doubt not "Zelda" fun.

As for Halo...see "Goldeneye..."

[OvermindX]

You're a genius Django. You obviously know the right stuff about video games. But then again, that may only be because I agree with you.

[Nick Nunziata]

Eventually, I'll have them all, but honestly...

None of the new systems have matched the excitement and pure gameplay of SNES/GENESIS.

[Django]

And I can't believe that Nick and I agree on something either.

I miss the old, crappy, side-scrollers...

[Nick Nunziata]

Thank God for Gamestop and their endless supply of old games. This year I re-bought a SNES and GENESIS and:

Super Metroid
Technocop
Shining Force II
Ghoul's 'n Ghosts
Super Ghouls 'n Ghosts
Shadowrun
Super Mario All-Stars
Vegas Stakes
Tetris 2
PGA Tour II
and any old baseball game I could find.

Sorry, but most modern systems bury the gameplay under bells and whistles and cannot stack up.

[Django]

I truly want Super Mario All Stars badly. But the $25 to upwards of $50 I've seen in for used around here is mindnumbing.

But I suppose it's less expensive than the Game Boy Advance.

I just don't know if I can make level of commitment anymore...

[Richard Dickson]

Nick Nunziata:
Shining Force IIOh dear lord the Shining Force series ROCKED.

[Tony Ryan]

Django Tai Fei:
I truly want Super Mario All Stars badly. But the $25 to upwards of $50 I've seen in for used around here is mindnumbing.

But I suppose it's less expensive than the Game Boy Advance.

I just don't know if I can make level of commitment anymore...You can download a ROM of it if you have a SNES EMU.

It's fun, not legal, and free.

[Django]

I don't download any games. Guess I'm either Old School or just lazy...

[Micah Robinson]

I think there may be a wee bit over-romanticizing the olden days of video games.

Sure, there are lots of games these days that hide behind graphics and sound. And they are most certainly bad-to-mediocre. But a whole hell of a lot of games back in the day suffered from the same malady.

How many side-scrollers were really innovative and original? Hell, you had a Nintendo controller...and with that you had a button to shoot with and one to jump with. And that's about all that a whole lot of games put into their gameplay. Run to the right of the screen for 5 hours while jumping, shooting, and occasionally climbing to another level.

The Super Mario series took this template to a new level because of superior character design, music, and ambience, not to mention the perfect level of difficulty. And a few other franchises did well with it, but there was a WHOLE lot of mediocrity as well. The predictably patterned end bosses. The pointless platform jumps (which are STILL used today.... :mad: ). The 1-2-3 level structure.

Trust me...the games of yore had their drawbacks, too.

The thing is that these days, gaming, just like movies, has become franchise and sequel driven. Publishers rush the developers so that they can be profitable for the 4th quarter of the year. So you end up seeing the same engines over and over with only moderate tweaks in character desin or gameplay.

Hence the Tomb Raider franchise....EA Sports' entire canon of games...Crash Bandicoot....and a host of other games. The reason that developers like Sega and Rare turn out such consistently great games is because they're allowed the time they need to turn out a fully developed, polished product. The bad developers of yesteryear didn't even have that excuse. They just did a lot of copying.

Look at the Street Fighter franchise. Great game. Very polished. And they shat on the legacy again and again by re-releasing it with sublte tweaks here and there and charging you $50 a pop. Street Fighter 2 is still the best fighting game of all time, but the sequels dragged it down to the point where a new Street Fighter game wouldn't be anymore special than Tekken 4 or Dead or Alive 4, even though the gameplay in those two series is absolutely inferior.

Developers need time and publishers who will give it to them in spades.

And the developers of today who are allowed to do that can make stuff that is absolutely comparable to the SNES/Genesis era.

I love my Ghost'N Goblins, Super Mario, Metroid, Spy Hunter, Gauntlet, and the like. Love 'em to death, I do.

But I also love my Wrestlemania 2000, Halo, Grand Theft Auto 3, Twisted Metal: Black, and a host of other new-ish games.

And that doesn't even touch PC masterpieces of the current era like Unreal Tournament and Command & Conquer: Red Alert 1 and 2.

There's always been gaming greatness to be found. Any system. Any era. You just have to look for it.

RIGHT NOW, I don't see anything on the Gamecube that compels me. All their stuff is coming out at some point in the future, but they have nary a must have piece of software right now.

PS2 and Xbox each have theirs, and since I've played everything I wanted to play on PS2, I figured a switch to Xbox would be a nice change of pace, and it has been.

When Gamecube releases its gems.....I'll get it as well.

But there are great games everywhere and there's no reason to limit your search for them.

[Dj Homeless]

And Round three begins?

Kingdom hearts looks cool, and it's different, but...it's an RPG. From what I've read and seen, it does nothing to break the traditional RPG mold...sure it's still gonna rock, but I don't think it'll be the savior of the PS2...

PC games??? I'll agree that most console games are sequels, that's my point. But PC is lazy too. Deus Ex? First-person shooter with a bit of variety. Freedom Force? Yet another tactical game. Sims? Long running line, from Simcity (still a classic on the SNES). Black and White? Another strategy game.

Now, I love Deus Ex. That's not to say I don't like these games. But if you're going to say PC has a lot of variety, it's not that different than console. Course, the lack of originality is another topic all together...

I don't neccessarily agree that Nintendo is the best either. They dropped the ball. For every Zelda they made for the N64, there was Superman 64, Buck Bumble, and a whole line of crap. Now hey, every system has large piles of junk games (Action 52 for the NES, South Park for the PSX,etc.) the N64 was a horrible experiment. So they have a lot of ground to regain in this battle.

And yah, Square will be a HUGE factor, as will Rare. If those two can produce memorable games, Nintendo will be on the right path. And I applaud them for Luigi's Mansion (at least it's a bit different..) but is shouldn't have been a launch title. Mario Sunshine should'a been.

And no one is denying Nintendo's past. They rocked. They still do. But I think they're in a rut, and they're getting arse-kicked because of it. If they can get out of this and take the lead, hey, awesome. Then I have a reason to go get one..

GTA3 however I'll defend. While it's a mish-mash of different games, it's different. It push's the envelope on gaming in general. It's defintely "Metroid" fun. "Zelda" fun. Goldeneye fun? Yep. And "Halo" is like Goldeneye? Sure. But Goldeneye is like every other FPS out there. Was it fun? Hell yah! Was it original? Was it better than other FPS's?? Well, that's a debate..

There. That should start the fire again... wink

[LlamaRama]

Dismissing Black and White as a strategy game and Deus Ex as an FPS with variety sets, in my opinion, a ridiculously high standard. After all, there are only so many genres available, and not every game can create a new one. Games like Black and White and Deus Ex do, however, stretch their respective genres to a huge degree. And The Sims only shares a name with other Sim series; it comes as close to creating a genre as any game in recent memory. At some point, the improvements and changes on existing designs should be enough to distinguish games from the pack. (Many of my previous examples of endlessly sequelized console games were probably poor choices, as they did just that.) After all, GTA3, at its core, is the same as GTA2, with 3D graphics. Despite this, it is almost universally regarded as something fresh and innovative. My point is simply that such innovation is generally more common on the PC.

But this really isn't that much of an issue that involves the present video game war (if the general consumer cared at all for innovation, Tomb Raider wouldn't exist anymore).

mikah912:
But there are great games everywhere and there's no reason to limit your search for them.Budget.

[Micah Robinson]

LlamaRama:
Budget.That's a reason to limit your choices, not your search parameters.

[Big Black]

I'm not deluding myself when I tell you that I have no interest in the current crop of Nintendo GC games, and haven't since the SNES. I bought a N64 and frankly the system fucking sucked because I ended up having no interest in it's over-priced cartidge-ass laden line-up either. Fact is, if you don't like Mario and Zelda and you also historically hate their controllers, why buy Nintendo?

When they lost me years ago, Sony was sitting there waiting with the first Tomb Raider game and a CD-capable system that could also play music CDs. I guess GoldenEye was ok for a little while; it offered the illusion of multiplayer while saddling players with the worst controller ever conceived. But you could shoot people and it was a Nintendo system, so I suppose that was an improvement.

As for the PC not being a good game machine, and one with a poor selection at that - are you fuckin' nuts? Multiplayer capabilities alone blow any consoles(including the ones I own) off the map. Can you network your Gamecube with others? Play multiplayer with 32 people? Upgrade your system to improve the graphics and sounds of already playable games? Get serious. I understand the cost-prohibitive nature of keeping a pc on the cutting edge, but that's no reason to delude yourself either.

[OvermindX]

The N64 controller sucked because it was designed for Mario, and for that game, it rocked ass. Well and Zelda too. You have to remember that Miyamoto designed the controller for his games.

[Cheese Biscuits]

For me, there will never be a war that could top the one between these two:

<img src="http://www.marketvisions.com/photo/studio/images/SNES.jpg" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.juegosonline.com/images/genesis_big.jpg" alt="" />

[OvermindX]

And for the Record Cheese Biscuit, Sega ended up getting their asses handed to them by the SNES. Don't get me wrong Sega is great, they are 2nd only to Nintendo.

[Big Black]

OvermindX:
The N64 controller sucked because it was designed for Mario, and for that game, it rocked ass. Well and Zelda too. You have to remember that Miyamoto designed the controller for his games.Hrm. Yet another reason they lost me as a fan - Mario games should not determine the fucking system's controller.