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Tony Ryan
05-06-2002, 01:42 PM
What and why the fuck?

Stephen Zunes, AlterNet
May 3, 2002
Viewed on May 6, 2002

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On Thursday, both the House of Representative and the U.S. Senate overwhelmingly passed resolutions defending the policies of right-wing Israeli prime minister Ariel Sharon in the occupied territories. Human rights activists are alarmed, both at the strong Congressional support for a repressive military occupation as well as the fact that the resolutions are being widely interpreted as an attack on the credibility of Amnesty International and other human rights groups.

Last month, Amnesty International published a detailed and well-documented report on the situation in the Israeli-occupied West Bank, noting how "the IDF [Israeli Defense Forces] acted as though the main aim was to punish all Palestinians. Actions were taken by the IDF which had no clear or obvious military necessity." The report goes on to document unlawful killings, destruction of civilian property, arbitrary detention, torture, assaults on medical personnel and journalists, and random shooting at houses and people in the streets.

By contrast, the House resolution, passed by a 352-21 margin, claims "Israel's military operations are an effort to defend itself . . . and are aimed only at dismantling the terrorist infrastructure in the Palestinian areas."

This not only puts the House of Representatives in direct contradiction of reports from Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch, but of Israeli peace and human rights groups like B'Tselem, Gush Shalom and Yesh G'vul. These Israeli organizations, which have many IDF reservists in their ranks, have reported that the apparent goal of the Israeli offensive was to dismantle much of the civilian infrastructure of Palestinian society. The Israeli and international news media have graphically shown the wanton destruction of homes, offices, schools and utilities with no connection whatsoever with any "terrorist infrastructure."

It is perhaps not surprising that the more harshly-worded House resolution, sponsored by Assistant Majority Leader Tom DeLay, was backed by virtually the entire Republican Right. Yet the chief co-sponsor of the resolution was none other than Tom Lantos, the liberal California Democrat who chairs the Human Rights Caucus. Other prominent liberals supporting the resolution included Nancy Pelosi, Robert Matsui, Maxine Waters, Henry Waxman, Mark Udall, John Lewis, Lane Evans, Barney Frank, Edward Markey, Major Owens, David Price and Patrick Kennedy, among others.

That so many supposedly progressive voices in the House of Representatives would take the word of Tom DeLay over that of Amnesty International is indicative of how little regard there is in Congress for the Nobel Peace Prize-winning organization.

The House resolution also called for an increase over the already more than two billion dollars of annual military aid sent to Israel and praised President George W. Bush for his policies.

Meanwhile, the U.S. Senate, in a 94-2 vote, passed a similar resolution, again referring to the assault on Palestinian towns and refugee camps as a case of Israel taking "necessary steps to provide security to its people by dismantling the terrorist infrastructure in the Palestinian areas," with every liberal Democrat voting in the affirmative.

Public opinion polls indicate that most Americans blame both sides for the violence, though the resolutions passed Thursday put the blame exclusively on the Palestinians. More strikingly, a Time/CNN poll revealed the 60 percent of Americans believe the United States should suspend some or all aid to Israel to force them to pull back from their offensive in the West Bank while only 1 percent believed U.S. aid should go up. Yet over 90 percent of the House of Representatives supports just such an increase in military aid.

The huge majorities in support of these resolutions can not be attributed to a need to secure the "Jewish vote" in this election year. American Jews are increasingly divided over the policies of Israel's rightist prime minister and the vast majority of the resolutions' Congressional backers are from states or districts with only tiny Jewish populations.

Similarly, most of these resolutions' supporters are from safe enough seats so as not to need campaign contributions from the conservative political action committees supportive of Ariel Sharon.

For most members of Congress, then, it is simply a reflection of their sincere ideological support for Israel's occupation policies and their low regard for internationally-recognized human rights standards as well as the failure of the peace and human rights community to mobilize as effectively on the Middle East as they have on other areas of U.S. foreign policy.

With only 17 Democrats in the House and two Democrats in the Senate voting against the bill, perhaps the biggest winner is the Green Party, that has long argued that even on an issue as basic as human rights, there is no difference between the two major parties. Already, there are growing numbers of disaffected Democrats who are beginning to realize they can not support human rights and support the Democratic Party at the same time.

The biggest loser in Thursday's votes is the struggling Israeli peace and human rights movement and their moderate Palestinian counterparts, whose defiance of their violent leaders and efforts towards reconciliation have once again been sabotaged by the U.S. Congress.

<a href="http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=13041" target="_blank">http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=13041</a>

Will
05-06-2002, 03:00 PM
Thanks for this data Tony. I am glad to see that our Congress has retained their sanity and reason and has not fallen victim to the insanity of those that cannot see that the the Arab actions should offend every decent person in the world. I guess our Congresspeople are not motivated by the fact that Arabs, who are supportive of mass murder on a daily basis, can supply the country with oil, as other countries clearly are.

Maybe we did a good job and didn't elect a lot of butthead, braindead, idiots that don't have clue one about the middle east, to Congress.

Its bad enough that there are individual dipshits advocating that we support mass murders and terorrists, instead of Israel.

Thanks again for bringing this data to our attention.

PS, I got the fact that you were joking in the title of your thread, as nobody is really that dumb.

Tony Ryan
05-06-2002, 03:15 PM
Not joking,

1) It's the title of the article
2) It's true

Chavez
05-06-2002, 06:52 PM
Nasty Ol' Will:

Maybe we did a good job and didn't elect a lot of butthead, braindead, idiots that don't have clue one about the middle east, to Congress.

Unfortuntely, we put one in the White House.

Tony Ryan
05-06-2002, 06:53 PM
Bingo

Seahawk
05-06-2002, 07:39 PM
You know, I'm tired of defending my side on this.

Anyone want to jump in?

Cap, where are you anyway?

Jim Pappas/Jabba
05-06-2002, 08:55 PM
Okay, I'm here.

When is Amnesty International going to start complaining about the continual human rights violations of the Muslim states? Their complete disregard for human rights are so well documented and occur every single day (go ahead, go spend a week in Saudi Arabia and see how women are treated there).

I APPLAUD our congress and it's wisdom in defending Israel. THEY ARE THE FUCKING VICTIMS in the Middle East and I am just completely amazed that anyone can seriously side with their enemies!

The Palestinian civilian infrastructure? Oh, you mean the breeding ground of the malevolent evil that is Muslim fundamentalism and the birthplace of terrorists? That infrastructure? Good for the Israelis.

Fuck Amnesty International. They need to take a GOOD HARD LOOK at the people they are trying to defend and then decide who the "human rights" violators really are.

Blunt
05-06-2002, 09:43 PM
jabbadonut:
Okay, I'm here.

When is Amnesty International going to start complaining about the continual human rights violations of the Muslim states? Their complete disregard for human rights are so well documented and occur every single day (go ahead, go spend a week in Saudi Arabia and see how women are treated there).

I APPLAUD our congress and it's wisdom in defending Israel. THEY ARE THE FUCKING VICTIMS in the Middle East and I am just completely amazed that anyone can seriously side with their enemies!

The Palestinian civilian infrastructure? Oh, you mean the breeding ground of the malevolent evil that is Muslim fundamentalism and the birthplace of terrorists? That infrastructure? Good for the Israelis.

Fuck Amnesty International. They need to take a GOOD HARD LOOK at the people they are trying to defend and then decide who the "human rights" violators really are.Okay, now that is just complete bullshit. Have you even checked that before claiming that they never denounce human rights violations in muslim countries. Go here <a href="http://www.amnesty.org/ailib/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.amnesty.org/ailib/index.html</a>
, browse the "countries menu", come back and tell me they don't investigate everywhere. And kudos for saying fuck you to the organisation that actually tries to denounce injustice wherever it may exists. Nice move really. [

Seabass Inna Bun
05-06-2002, 09:58 PM
And kudos for saying fuck you to the organisation that actually tries to denounce injustice wherever it may exist. Nice move really.And the crowd goes wild.

Jim Pappas/Jabba
05-06-2002, 10:23 PM
Okay, Bluntman, I'll call your bluff:
What is AI focusing on in Afghanistan?

15/04/2002 USA: Treatment of prisoners in Afghanistan and Guantánamo Bay undermines human rights. Amnesty International memorandum to the US government
05/04/2002 Afghanistan: Amnesty International urges humane treatment of detainees
04/04/2002 Afghanistan: Amnesty International welcomes Loya Jirga procedures
12/02/2002 Amnesty International`s recommendations for the training of a civilian police force in Afghanistan
01/02/2002 Afghanistan: Urgent action needed on prison conditions
18/01/2002 Afghanistan: Independent justice system is the key to respect and protect human rights
15/01/2002 USA: AI calls on the USA to end legal limbo of Guantánamo prisoners
10/01/2002 Afghanistan/USA: Prisoners must be treated humanely
10/01/2002 Afghanistan: Refugees situation trapped in "no man's land" escalating
20/12/2001 Afghanistan: The hidden human face of the war
14/12/2001 Pakistan: Refugees must not be forced back to an unstable Afghanistan
11/12/2001 Afghanistan: Clean surrender needed
10/12/2001 Afghanistan: The first International Human Rights Day of the 21st Century Global Coalition for Human Rights - a must
07/12/2001 Afghanistan: Refugees fleeing the war are an international responsibility
07/12/2001 Afghanistan: Video footage strengthens the case for an urgent inquiry
06/12/2001 Afghanistan: Surrender must comply with the laws of war
05/12/2001 Afghanistan: Inquiry into Qala-i-Jhangi fort killings must not be swept under the carpet
04/12/2001 Afghanistan: Secretary General to visit Pakistan
30/11/2001 Afghanistan: Amnesty International dismayed at UK rejection of inquiry
29/11/2001 Afghanistan: Mazar-i-Sharif inquiry latest
27/11/2001 Afghanistan: Amnesty International calls for urgent inquiry into violence in Qala-i-Jhangi
26/11/2001 Afghanistan: Only a human rights solution will last
23/11/2001 Afghanistan: A human rights agenda for the future
13/11/2001 Afghanistan: Risk of reprisals
09/11/2001 Afghanistan: United Front must ensure abuses of the past are not repeated
07/11/2001 Afghanistan: Who will assume the responsibility?
05/11/2001 Pakistan: Refugees at risk at Chaman staging camp
02/11/2001 Afghanistan: Imminent executions must be stopped
01/11/2001 Afghanistan: Learning from the past to build the future

Okay, How about the Middle East?:


02/05/2002 Israel/Occupied Territories: Security Council must stick to its commitment to establish the truth
29/04/2002 Israel/OT: Nothing to hide? Amnesty International head calls on Israel to cooperate with UN inquiry
26/04/2002 Israel/Occupied Territories: International Days of Mourning
22/04/2002 Israel/Occupied Territories: Preliminary findings of Amnesty International delegates' visit to Jenin
19/04/2002 Israel/Occupied Territories: Practical measures are required - words are not enough
19/04/2002 Israel/Occupied Territories: Press briefing by Amnesty International fact-finding mission
18/04/2002 EU Mediterranean Ministerial meeting: No Middle East peace without human rights: investigate what happened at Jenin
15/04/2002 Israel/Occupied Territories: Amnesty International delegates in Jenin
12/04/2002 Israel/Occupied Territories: Israeli military action is collective punishment
12/04/2002 Israel/Occupied Territories: A leading Forensic expert to visit Palestinian refugee camps
05/04/2002 Israel/Occupied Territories: Statement to the UN Commission of Human Rights: 58th Session (18 March - 29 April 2002): Item 4: Special sitting in response to the High Commissioner's Statement on the Human Rights situation in the Occupied Palestinian Territories: Joint statement by Amnesty International and the International Commission of Jurists
03/04/2002 Israel/Occupied Territories: Military response to human rights crisis is only fuelling the cycle of violence
28/03/2002 Israel/Occupied Territories/Palestinian Authority: Deliberate killing of Civilians is never justified
27/03/2002 Commission on Human Rights, 58th Session, 18 March - 26 April, 2002: : Agenda item 8: Question of the violation of human rights in the occupied Arab territories, including Palestine: Oral Statement by Amnesty International
19/03/2002 Israel/Occupied Territories/Palestinian Authority: The perils of avoiding human rights
19/03/2002 Israel/Occupied Territories: Amnesty International Press Conference: American Colony Hotel, Jeursalem, 19 March 2002: Statement of Curt Goering, Deputy Executive Director, Amnesty International USA
18/03/2002 Israel and the Occupied Territories: Press Conference: "The perils of avoidance: the real cost of human rights abuses": Findings of the current Amnesty International Mission in Israel and the Occupied Territories
28/02/2002 Israel/OT/PA: Human rights must be a central part of the peace process
24/01/2002 Israel/Occupied Territories / Palestinian Authority: Injustice and repression are not the answer
04/12/2001 Israel: Respect of Fourth Geneva Convention must be ensured by High Contracting Parties meeting in Geneva
08/11/2001 Palestinian Authority: Justice must not be discarded
30/10/2001 Israel/Occupied Territories/Palestinian Authority: The only way forward is respect for fundamental human rights
23/10/2001 Israel/OT: Amnesty International urges Israel to stop attacks on Palestinian areas: News Flash
08/10/2001 Palestinian Authority: Amnesty International calls for full investigation of killing of demonstrators: News Flash
21/09/2001 Israel/Occupied Territories: An end to closures and the introduction of international human rights observers are a vital necessity
06/07/2001 Israel/Palestinian Authority: International monitors a must
06/07/2001 Israel/Occupied Territories : start of an Amnesty International research mission
26/03/2001 Israel/Palestinian Authority: Developing a human rights agenda for peace"
22/03/2001 Israel/ Occupied Territories/Palestinian Authority: "Developing a human rights agenda for peace"

Let's try Saudi Arabia:

<a href="http://web.amnesty.org/ai.nsf/Index/MDE230732000?OpenDocument&of=COUNTRIES\SAUDI+ARABIA" target="_blank">http://web.amnesty.org/ai.nsf/Index/MDE230732000?OpenDocument&of=COUNTRIES\SAUDI+ARABIA</a>

This is an article about Women's rights. Gee, almost 2 years old? No reference to it since (see the site)

The point I am getting at is that Amnesty International began it's life as a good idea, but has been corrupted over the years by those on the left who are more concerned with bringing more media attention to those abuses by those countries who are MORE CONCERNED with human rights than those who are not. They shouldn't be pointing fingers at Israel and the United States who are only acting in self defense and who genuinely lament the deaths of innocents, instead of joyously celebrating them a la the Muslim world's glee at the events of 9/11. They have become a joke.

Blunt
05-06-2002, 10:43 PM
My bluff? how can you say that by taking only two countries?? as far as I know, Afghanistan and Palestine aren't the only muslim countries in the world. So here are a few example:
<a href="http://web.amnesty.org/ai.nsf/Index/MDE300301999?OpenDocument&of=COUNTRIES\TUNISIA" target="_blank">http://web.amnesty.org/ai.nsf/Index/MDE300301999?OpenDocument&of=COUNTRIES\TUNISIA</a>

<a href="http://web.amnesty.org/ai.nsf/Index/AFR620202001?OpenDocument&of=COUNTRIES\CONGO" target="_blank">http://web.amnesty.org/ai.nsf/Index/AFR620202001?OpenDocument&of=COUNTRIES\CONGO</a>

<a href="http://web.amnesty.org/ai.nsf/Index/MDE140042001?OpenDocument&of=COUNTRIES\IRAQ" target="_blank">http://web.amnesty.org/ai.nsf/Index/MDE140042001?OpenDocument&of=COUNTRIES\IRAQ</a>

<a href="http://web.amnesty.org/ai.nsf/Index/MDE290022001?OpenDocument&of=COUNTRIES\MOROCCO" target="_blank">http://web.amnesty.org/ai.nsf/Index/MDE290022001?OpenDocument&of=COUNTRIES\MOROCCO</a>

Again, try to read further before passing judgement. Had you investigated a little more, you would have seen that my allegations were indeed correct. AI does not take sides, it judges only based on facts and acts thusly.

PS: please; it's Bluntmatt, not Bluntman. I tried to come with an original twist for my name. I don't call you chakadonut fer chrissakes (trivial I know).

Jim Pappas/Jabba
05-06-2002, 10:56 PM
Yes, Bluntmatt, sorry about the name mistake . . .

Maybe it isn't AI's fault, maybe it is the PRESS who are making sure that the most exposure is given to those reports that seek to expose Israel and the United States as violating human rights these days. Yes, AI reports on abuses everywhere on earth, and they are pretty thorough. But my complaint is that their reports featuring the U.S. and Israel seem to have hit the mainstream press and are getting widely reported, while the other things they report on get swept under rugs.

Blunt
05-06-2002, 11:11 PM
jabbadonut:
Yes, Bluntmatt, sorry about the name mistake . . .

Maybe it isn't AI's fault, maybe it is the PRESS who are making sure that the most exposure is given to those reports that seek to expose Israel and the United States as violating human rights these days. Yes, AI reports on abuses everywhere on earth, and they are pretty thorough. But my complaint is that their reports featuring the U.S. and Israel seem to have hit the mainstream press and are getting widely reported, while the other things they report on get swept under rugs.Hey, no problem with the mistake, just wanted to bring that to your attention. :)

I agree, it's sad that AI other reports tend to be overlooked, but it is in no way their own fault but that of the press, thus why I was pointing out that I found your attacks against them misplaced. As far I'm concerned both Israel and Palestine are leading condemnable course of actions, but Israel tends to draw the most criticism towards it because they are in the leading position and reply with a force that is vastly superior to that of Palestine, hence the difference of treatment in the media.

Seabass Inna Bun
05-06-2002, 11:14 PM
But my complaint is that their reports featuring the U.S. and Israel seem to have hit the mainstream press and are getting widely reported, while the other things they report on get swept under rugs.That's the press's fault, not Amnesty International's.

Will
05-08-2002, 12:27 AM
I though AI was Artificial Inteligence, well, on second thought, maybe it is.

devincf
05-08-2002, 12:37 AM
Will hates human rights!

Tony Ryan
05-08-2002, 05:12 PM
And I am sure Human Rights hate him too.

Will
05-08-2002, 08:31 PM
Yeah! I never did like that guy!