France...go figure

[Kronos]

<a href="http://webcenter.newssearch.netscape.com/aolns_display.adp?key=200204212243000258060_aolns. src" target="_blank">From Reuters</a>
French press agog at Le Pen poll shock
PARIS, April 22 (Reuters) - Following is a selection of headlines and commentary in early Monday editions of French newspapers after far-right nationalist Jean-Marie Le Pen unexpectedly won through to the final round of presidential elections.

Le Pen beat Socialist Prime Minister Lionel Jospin into third place in Sunday's first round of voting and will face conservative President Jacques Chirac in the May 5 runoff.

Many newspapers, from Communist-supporting Humanite to the conservative le Figaro, abandoned their usual format to splash banner one-word headlines after an electoral upset that has sent shockwaves across France and its European neighbours.

LIBERATION (left-leaning daily)

- Under a single-word front-page headline "NON," the paper says thousands of people descended into the streets to protest after far-right leader Le Pen gained a place in the second round of presidential elections against Jacques Chirac.

In an editorial headlined "Awful," the paper says the "suicide" of the left, defeated in the first round for the first time since 1969, "leaves a caricature of a contest that is in many ways shameful."

LE FIGARO (conservative daily)

- "Earthquake." For the first time since 1969 the left will be absent from the second round.

"The large number of candidates on the left and extreme left eroded the Jospin vote. The prime minister also paid in stinging fashion for his five years in government and a blurred political message throughout his campaign."

HUMANITE (former Communist party newspaper)

- The newspaper runs the headline NON! under a picture of Le Pen's face daubed with a red cross. "France does not deserve this. Exasperation and frustration provoke a scathing disavowal of policies carried out for years. A dangerous situation is created," reads the paper's front-page comment.

PARISIEN (tabloid)

- Shock.

FRANCE SOIR (tabloid)

- The Le Pen bomb.

"A campaign focused on insecurity, a fragmented vote shared between 16 candidates and record abstentions led to this unimaginable result."

LES ECHOS (financial daily)

- Presidential earthquake. Shocked left-wing leaders urge voters to block the path to power of Jean-Marie Le Pen.

"Jean-Marie Le Pen profited from the rise of insecurity to the top of the political agenda. Upsetting France's political life and its image abroad, the result places Jacques Chirac in the position of almost certain victor in the second round."

LA TRIBUNE (financial daily)

- Le Pen imposes a duel laden with menace on Chirac.

"Almost a third of voters supported candidates whose stock in trade is hatred of parliamentary democracy. The result is above all an act of defiance to the governing parties of both right and left who managed France over the years."

INTERNATIONAL HERALD TRIBUNE (published in Paris)

- In one of post-war Europe's most startling political implosions, Jean-Marie Le Pen, the rightist extremist who has run on racially divisive platforms for three decades, advances into final round of French presidential election. (web edition)

Heh heh...agog.

[DaveB]

Kronos
[QB]INTERNATIONAL HERALD TRIBUNE (published in Paris)

- In one of post-war Europe's most startling political implosions, Jean-Marie Le Pen, the rightist extremist who has run on racially divisive platforms for three decades, advances into final round of French presidential election. (web edition)
Yeah, it's totally out of line for the silly liberal French media to freak out about a guy from the National Front potentially getting elected.

<a href="http://www.adl.org/international/LePen-1-introduction.html" target="_blank">http://www.adl.org/international/LePen-1-introduction.html</a>

Some Le Pen highlights:

"In 1987, he said that the Nazi death camps were "a mere detail" of World War II. In 1990, he was convicted of incitement to racial hatred by casting doubt on the Nazi persecution of Jews and Gypsies under a French law banning such rhetoric. He was fined the equivalent of $233,000 and has appealed the sentence to the European Court of Human Rights."

"LePen’s most egregious recent’ comment, evoking widespread protest from parties across the political spectrum and from human rights and Jewish organizations, was that "the races are not equal’ It was a comment that was repeated by the newly elected Mayor of Vitrolles, Mine Mégret, and seems to be a staple of the FN ideology. Both LePen and Mme Mégret elaborated on the statement by noting that, after all, different races have different strengths. Thus, both said, Blacks are better at sports."

This guy isn't Bush or Reagan "conservative." He's more Hitler "conservative." I think the headlines are somewhat justified.

[Nelson]

I thought American liberals were nuts, but these French never fail to surprise me.

[Seahawk]

I think you doubt the french. They are in disbelief. A protest happened yesterday as well.

This is not good news. This is what affects our world, this is what changes our world.

These are the changes that scream for red flags.

Anti-Semites are on the rise and its got me a little bothered.

[DaveB]

nelson:
I thought American liberals were nuts, but these French never fail to surprise me.Okay, nelson, re-read my last post. Then do some reading on the National Front.

Then tell me again exactly why both liberals and conservatives shouldn't be concerned about someone who's essentially a neo-nazi getting into the last round of elections?

[Kronos]

What's worse is that so many actually voted for him! It's understandable that there were several other candidates which allowed for the election to go the other way. But look at the volume of votes for him alone!

I'll bet he gets whacked.

[Nelson]

DaveB:
nelson:
I thought American liberals were nuts, but these French never fail to surprise me.Okay, nelson, re-read my last post. Then do some reading on the National Front.

Then tell me again exactly why both liberals and conservatives shouldn't be concerned about someone who's essentially a neo-nazi getting into the last round of elections?Maybe I didn't make moi clear. I'm not comparing liberal and the French, I'm just saying that in degree of surprise, the French startle me more THAN the liberals...and conservatives too.

[Blunt]

Well I'm glad to see that this news makes you react. i'm French, and let me tell you I'm pretty fucking digusted and angry at the people of my country as of now. The worst thing is this: if so many people voted for him, it's because they felt sick with the regular major candidates and wanted to send a protest. I find this absolutely insane. If they so much wanted to protest against Jospin or Chirac they could have voted for one of the many smaller candidates, but no, they go voting for a FASCIST? What kind of sick twisted way of reasoning is that. Sure, the guy will never be President, but it is an alarming fact nevertheless and tells a lot, I think, about the current way of thinking in the country, especially considering the way we reacted when fascist entered the government in Austria or Italy. The worst thing is that the resurgence or extremis right wing movements is spreading all over Europe. This doesn't bode well for the future.

[Rex Hudler]

Does this Le Pen guy look like Jerry Lewis or something?

[Richard Dickson]

Le Pen said today that he would pull France out of the EU if elected president.

<a href="http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/04/22/france.election/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/04/22/france.election/index.html</a>

[Kronos]

That's one statement I agree with. Too bad the dude's a Nazi.

[Sethos]

well, Le Pen will not win the second round, but of course, the they are stuck for a lot more of Chirac, who's official media nickname these days is "super-menteur" AKA SUPERLIAR. the man has more scandals surrounding him than any other politician I know of, usually dealing with gving friends political clout, building contracts etc. but I'd rather have a corrupt bastard like him in office than fuckin Le Pen. that dude scares me (what's even scarier is that there's also a Le Pen type guy in my country now, who's set to win a lot of seats in May as well... what the fuck is wrong with people these days?)

[devincf]

Kronos:
That's one statement I agree with. Too bad the dude's a Nazi.Yeah if only he wanted to exterminate all Arabs!

[Blunt]

devilf:
Kronos:
That's one statement I agree with. Too bad the dude's a Nazi.Yeah if only he wanted to exterminate all Arabs!Believe me devilf, he wants.

[Jim Pappas/Jabba]

I think Le Pen's popularity is based solely on his opposition to the EU. I seriously doubt there are that many reactionary looneys in France.

It just goes to show you, that liberals have only themselves to blame for anything they perceive as a bad government. If they would bother voting en masse they would have more of a government they like.

[Blunt]

jabbadonut:
I think Le Pen's popularity is based solely on his opposition to the EU. I seriously doubt there are that many reactionary looneys in France.

It just goes to show you, that liberals have only themselves to blame for anything they perceive as a bad government. If they would bother voting en masse they would have more of a government they like.It is in part right. A lot of people who voted for him did this as a warning sent to the two great political figures of the country (Chirac and Jospin), a message that basically means "we are fed up of your policies, we don't see any difference between you two and it's time for a change". But the problem is this: this election had the highest number of candidates ever: 16. So, if people wanted to show their dissaproval they could have voted for a wide array of candidates, ranging from ecologists to communists, trotskist to center-right, moderates to radical, etc etc. But no they choose to vote for the one candidate that is an outright racist,
fascist,antisemite, a threat to individual liberties and whose running of the country would be a disaster. THIS is a problem, one which should not be overlooked. I think that a vast number of French people, are at their core racist. It ranges from a little racist to outright hating, but we can't deny our country has a problem, one that needs to be solved quickly.

[chefwindu]

Man, this guy is France's answer to Pat Buchanan.

I understand the wanting of alternative politicians, but to vote for a guy who is a brown shirt away of being a Nazi.

I remember reading about him a few years ago. I think he wanted to pay white French to have white babies. Correct me Blunttmatt if I am wrong.

I was just appalled when I heard about this. That in this day and age a government official would propose such an idea. I thought there is noway this guy could go any further in politics.

God I hope this is far as he goes.

[Kronos]

devilf:
Kronos:
That's one statement I agree with. Too bad the dude's a Nazi.Yeah if only he wanted to exterminate all Arabs!Is that what you'd like?

[devincf]

Whenever I make the ill-advised choice to pop my head into this forum full of morons raging against a few well-spoken people, it is what i see you want, judging by your endless racist spew.

[Kronos]

Fascinating. I wasn't aware I was spewing anything here even resembling racism. And Arabs hadn't even been mentioned in this thread. In fact I simply posted the article. And the other fact of the matter is I agree with most everybody here regarding this character.

Your hit-n-run tactic was both unwelcome, uninformed, and ill-mannered. Is this the way you treat everybody with whom you come in contact?

[Burke]

devilf
Whenever I make the ill-advised choice to pop my head into this forum full of morons raging against a few well-spoken people, it is what i see you want, judging by your endless racist spew. Burke posted 04-06-2002 03:25 AM:

Ah, Devilf. So predictable. Lead with the questioning of intelligence, sure to be followed by the assigning of prejudice...

...the memories, the memories. :rolleyes:

[devincf]

Only those who I do not feel are worth my time.

You didn't mention arabs in this thread - but you have mentioned them in other threads that i have subjected myself to in fits of boredom when looking through these forums.

[Matt Carroll]

As predictable as ever. Make up your damn mind. In or out. Are you gonna stick around and try to make a coherent point, or are you gonna keep doing this silly, childish name calling? You continue to post in this forum even though you seem to have a holier than thou attitude about keeping out. Talk about mixed messages. I enjoy your absence, but I am sick of this half-assed stuff.

[Nelson]

call:
As predictable as ever. Make up your damn mind. In or out. Are you gonna stick around and try to make a coherent point, or are you gonna keep doing this silly, childish name calling? You continue to post in this forum even though you seem to have a holier than thou attitude about keeping out. Talk about mixed messages. I enjoy your absence, but I am sick of this half-assed stuff.Have you heard the tale about the duck and the scorpion?

[Matt Carroll]

Author Topic: fuck you
devilf
Sewer Chewer Veteran
Member # 443 posted 04-23-2002 12:30 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i think the subject covers it all

--------------------
There's a snake in my boot!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 8890 | From: Brooklyn, NY, US of A | Registered: Jun 2000

So is this a no?

[Seahawk]

Devin, if you're going to try and make your point, you're NEVER going to get it made doing what you did in this thread and what you took part in previously.

My advice to you is to do it constructively and not divide everyone against you. But this is my opinion. You can do it your way and be all like you are. Or you can try and do it another way and not make enemies on this board.

I am just one sewer chewer with no power. I respected you, but after your comment to Kronos, that was just uncalled for. And if my respect does not matter to you, thats fine as well. I'm just speaking out and trying to make a point.

I believe if you didn't use you current techniques, you might be farther ahead, but this is again, my opinion. You don't have to listen, read or even look at it.

Devin, we've had enough mud flung on these boards before, does it really need to start again?

Good Day,
Aaron

[Nelson]

so i guess no one wants to hear the tale. huh?

:D

[Jim Pappas/Jabba]

I do! I do!

[Burke]

A scorpion and a duck are standing by a stream. The duck begins to waddle into the stream, headed for the other side when the scorpion says "Hey, take me with you."

The duck replies "You're a scorpion. You'll sting me while we're crossing and then I'll drown."

"No I won't," implored the scorpion. "Why would I do that... I would die too!"

"I guess you're right," said the duck. "Hop on."

The scorpion quickly gets onto the ducks back. The duck heads into the stream. Halfway through he feels a sharp sting.

"What did you do that for, " cried the duck. "You've killed us both."

The scorpion replied, "It's my nature."

--------
Ah the lessons of childhood

[Nelson]

Now, Jab, see how this applies to "some" people?

[imported_Adam Warren]

The story applies to everyone. We are all ducks or scorpions from time to time. No one here has the moral fortittude to rise above playing the scorpion, just as none of us posesses an intellect above becoming the duck.

[Matt Carroll]

Absolutely not true.

[imported_Adam Warren]

I rest my case.

[Kronos]

But who is the scorpion? Who is the scorpion?

[imported_Adam Warren]

I'm not going to answer... awwwe FUCK!

[Matt Carroll]

That's called moral relativism, and it is a complete crock. Not everyone IS the same Adam. There are distinct differences in morals and ethics on this board. It's true no matter what side of the political aisle you fall on.

[Seahawk]

Kronos:
But who is the scorpion? Who is the scorpion?The Scorpion King!

Geeze Krono's, you're getting slow... :)

[Will]

Seahawk:
Devin, if you're going to try and make your point, you're NEVER going to get it made doing what you did in this thread and what you took part in previously.

My advice to you is to do it constructively and not divide everyone against you. But this is my opinion. You can do it your way and be all like you are. Or you can try and do it another way and not make enemies on this board.

I am just one sewer chewer with no power. I respected you, but after your comment to Kronos, that was just uncalled for. And if my respect does not matter to you, thats fine as well. I'm just speaking out and trying to make a point.

I believe if you didn't use you current techniques, you might be farther ahead, but this is again, my opinion. You don't have to listen, read or even look at it.

Devin, we've had enough mud flung on these boards before, does it really need to start again?

Good Day,
AaronA well reasoned and well stated post, Seahawk. Good on ya.

[Nelson]

Adam Warren:
The story applies to everyone. We are all ducks or scorpions from time to time. No one here has the moral fortittude to rise above playing the scorpion, just as none of us posesses an intellect above becoming the duck.If you look closer, you'll see that the scorpion-duck tale I spoke about was in response to Call's post which was refering to Devin.

This story is not meant to be a moral one...it's lesson is analagous to the fact that a leopard can not remove it's spots.

The story means to show that it is the nature of the scorpion to sting even though it says it won't. Similiar to Devin saying that he'll stick to posting in the main chewer sewer, and not post here...he'll always be posting; it is his nature to do so, even though he says otherwise.

And yes, like Call said, this doesn not apply to everyone.

[Hellblazer]

Dude, it wasn't a duck, it was a frog. I agree that it's more practical to consider a scorpion riding on a duck's back than a frog's, but geographically speaking, I think the scorpion would be more likely to find a frog to hitch a ride on than a duck.

[Hellblazer]

Duck or frog, however, I very much agree with your sentiment. A spot-on assessment, in my opinion.

[Matt Carroll]

Hellblazer:
Dude, it wasn't a duck, it was a frog. I agree that it's more practical to consider a scorpion riding on a duck's back than a frog's, but geographically speaking, I think the scorpion would be more likely to find a frog to hitch a ride on than a duck.:p

[Kronos]

Actually, I heard the story as horse/scorpion. The consistent theme: Scorpion.

[imported_Adam Warren]

Nelson, I'm quite capable of reading into your witty fable. I also posess the ablility to put my own twist on the story, which is inherently open to interpretation.

Frankly, the leopard and his spots is a crock of shit(certainly in this context) as far as lessons go—especially since not all leopards posess spots. And most scorpions don't sting unless threatened. It's for simple school children. But perhaps it's Devin's nature to be a scorpion. So, one could justly ask, maybe some people are ducks by nature: gullible enough to give the scorpion a ride. From this anology, one would conclude, that some of us are inherently malicious, and others stupid. But is it really Devin's nature to post caustic barbs in this forum?

Seems a bit simple doesn't it? it is.

So I say, given certain situations(on message boards), perhaps some of us act like scorpions. All of us post barbs from time-to-time. And we are all dumb enough to respond, at times. Which is hardly "Moral Absolutism." Just moral observation.

[Matt Carroll]

Actually I said moral relativism. And I think I, along with most here, have wasted enough time and space concerning devilf. He loves this shit, and this continuing dialogue probably makes him as happy as a schoolgirl. This is pointless, and it's time to move along to more important things.

[Seahawk]

call:
it's time to move along to more important things.Agreed.

Time for....

BOOBIES!

[Nighttrap38]

Man, this guy makes Pat Buchanan look like Jimmy Carter.

[Ben (formally Ned Fats)]

call:
Actually I said moral relativism. And I think I, along with most here, have wasted enough time and space concerning devilf. He loves this shit, and this continuing dialogue probably makes him as happy as a schoolgirl. This is pointless, and it's time to move along to more important things.You talk about Devilf being predictable...Every thread you post either praises conservatives in some way or another or bashes liberals. At least Devilf cuts through the bullshit and says what he means.

[imported_Adam Warren]

You know what I meant, call(how your accusations of moral 'relativism' have no basis[by way of non-sequitur], since I never alluded to something concrete like homogenized moral standards). Sorry about the the mix-up. I should have read your post carefully.

[Matt Carroll]

Ned Fats:
call:
Actually I said moral relativism. And I think I, along with most here, have wasted enough time and space concerning devilf. He loves this shit, and this continuing dialogue probably makes him as happy as a schoolgirl. This is pointless, and it's time to move along to more important things.You talk about Devilf being predictable...Every thread you post either praises conservatives in some way or another or bashes liberals. At least Devilf cuts through the bullshit and says what he means.It's true. You're right. I don't mean a word I say..... :rolleyes:

I'm a conservative! Of course I praise other conservatives. What the hell kind of point is that?!?!

Anyway....let's talk about boobies!

[Rex Hudler]

The direction this thread has taken is 100% less interesting than French nutjob political demagogues and the electorates that produce them.

Ever hear the one about the fox and the crow?

[Mad Man Mundt]

call:

Anyway....let's talk about boobies!Let's! I see a whole thread of them. Non-partisanly speaking, of course. wink

[Matt Carroll]

Mad_Man_Mundt:
call:

Anyway....let's talk about boobies!Let's! I see a whole thread of them. Non-partisanly speaking, of course. wink Cause god knows I don't wanna see breasts that lean to the left OR the right.

[Ben (formally Ned Fats)]

call:
Ned Fats:
call:
Actually I said moral relativism. And I think I, along with most here, have wasted enough time and space concerning devilf. He loves this shit, and this continuing dialogue probably makes him as happy as a schoolgirl. This is pointless, and it's time to move along to more important things.You talk about Devilf being predictable...Every thread you post either praises conservatives in some way or another or bashes liberals. At least Devilf cuts through the bullshit and says what he means.It's true. You're right. I don't mean a word I say..... :rolleyes:

I'm a conservative! Of course I praise other conservatives. What the hell kind of point is that?!?!

Anyway....let's talk about boobies!Excuse me, I dont think I was very clear. You do mean what you say, but at least Devilf is is not long winded....You could just as easily post "Conservatives Rule" or "Liberals Blow" in each of your posts and it would pretty much accomplish the same thing you are doing now.

[Matt Carroll]

Long winded....that's a new one. But thanks for your constructive criticism. I'll therefore only post using acronyms.

ITYAFIWNTMHOFB. How's that?

[imported_Adam Warren]

LE PEN'S POLICIES

Gwladys Fouche and Simon Jeffery
Monday April 22, 2002

For the survival of the agricultural and rural world

Priority to French-produced food, guaranteeing decent incomes for farmers, declaring a moratorium on farmers' debts, defending family farms and acting to end the depopulation of rural areas.

Jobs for the French

Giving priority to French nationals for jobs and developing continuous professional training.

Family preference

A "respect for life from its beginning to its end" [seen as reform of liberal abortion laws], benefits for French parents equal to the minimum wage, allowing adoption before birth and simplifying adoption procedures for young French orphans.

Stopping the flow of immigration

Establish French and European priority in housing, jobs and social support, immediately expelling all illegal immigrants, stop family regrouping and the automatic acquisition of French citizenship.

Ending red tape

Abolishing inheritance tax for children, progressively bringing down income tax and lower taxes on small businesses.

For a Europe of nations

"Denouncing" the Maastricht, Schengen and Amsterdam treaties, ending the right of foreigners to vote in French elections, abolishing the European commission.

For a new protectionism

Re-establishing France's commercial border for French jobs and products, helping companies with markets at home and abroad and cutting back state and public expenses.

To transmit knowledge

Depoliticise teaching and schoolbooks, establish "conditions of free choice" in schools, improving the teaching of French cultural heritage and promoting merit in schools.

Helping the health service

Separating the social insurance held by French citizens and foreigners, assuring identical social protection for all French people.

For law and order

Zero tolerance, reinforcing policing at national borders, and dismantling delinquent gangs.

Reconstructing the army

Creating a national guard for territorial defence, modernising strategic nuclear forces and improving living conditions for military personnel.

For French prestige

Refuse the "new world order" imposed by the US on Nato and preserving French sovereignty in its overseas territories.

— The Guardian.

[Kronos]

Actually, those sound really reasonable. Sort of like Borders, Language and Culture, the three things that define a Nation.

[Ben (formally Ned Fats)]

Kronos:
Actually, those sound really reasonable. Sort of like Borders, Language and Culture, the three things that define a Nation.And they also sound like they could lead to the next Naziesque country. Start with a dislike of foreigners (and Im sure the foreigners in question are of the dark skinned kind), create a strong internal military force and begin isolation.

[Kronos]

And yet it's their own Nation. They elected this guy by a majority in accordance with their law. If the left in France is so splintered that they cannot decide on one candidate from their side then they have made a choice. Their choice: Le Pen.

It happened here when Bill Clinton was first elected. If it weren't for the third party siphoning support from the Republicans Bill Clinton -who did not receive the "majority" vote- wouldn't have been elected.

And it's so stupid to witness people in this country lamenting the fact that France legally elected Le Pen.

[Kronos]

Ned Fats:
Kronos:
Actually, those sound really reasonable. Sort of like Borders, Language and Culture, the three things that define a Nation.And they also sound like they could lead to the next Naziesque country. Start with a dislike of foreigners (and Im sure the foreigners in question are of the dark skinned kind), create a strong internal military force and begin isolation.I love this assumption you make when you consider that there are huge numbers of Russians and other former Soviet citizens flooding Europe.

Yet I re-iterate: It's their country.

[DaveB]

Which could also be said for Germany before Hitler came into power, kronos. It was their country.

Granted, I don't think this is near the same level, but occurrences in other countries absolutely SHOULD concern us.

You seemed pretty aware of happenings in the middle-east well before 9/11, so I'm surprised to see you, of all people, writing this off as irrelevant.

And, yes, Le Pen's policy on face-value, doesn't seem extremist (though pretty damn contrary to liberal thinking, which is the weird part, considering the splintering left you mentioned). But his past comments are cause for alarm, I'd think. We wouldn't let David Duke off the hook so easily here, even if he whitewashed (no pun intended) his message for the sake of politics.

[Kronos]

You seemed pretty aware of happenings in the middle-east well before 9/11, so I'm surprised to see you, of all people, writing this off as irrelevant. The big difference is that France has a constitution of sorts, not a religious oligarchy.

And I'm not writing anything off as irrelevant at all. Just a bit surprised at the reaction by people here.

France has the same sort of problems in getting legislation passed as most other Parliamentary Nations. So unless a similar thing happens in France as happened in 1968 when after left-wing demonstrations the Parliament was overwhelmingly elected from the Right, there won't be many of Le Pen's policies that see the light of day. At least those that are, for France, extreme. I guess that's why this particular issue is something of a non-issue for the time being.

[imported_Adam Warren]

Before debate gets too involved, it should be noted that LePen has not actually been elected. He merely received a “larger than expected,” percentage of votes(which still left(no, its not a fucking pun...wait...shit) him in second place) in the first round of French elections(note: everything in Europe must resemble a soccer tournement in order to function).

Results of first round:

<img src="http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/maps_and_graphs/2002/04/23/france2002_resultsmap.gif" alt="" />

I find the strong LePen support in Alsace-Lorraine[55 Meuse (20.3);
57 Moselle (23.7); 67 Bas-Rhin (23.4); 68 Haut-Rhin (23.5)] rather amusing, since most regionalists(likely LePen supporters) in those departments don’t consider themselves French.

Anyhow, one should note that official party policy, and the sentiments held by party supporters(and leaders) are entirely different things.

Guradian “le election de frog” site:<a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/france/0,11882,681877,00.html" target="_blank">Guradian</a>
Le LePen site(au française):<a href="http://www.lepen.tv/" target="_blank">LePeni...</a>

[Kronos]

Correct. It's a primary of sorts. I think since the forces of the left are stong in France they will somehow bind those candidates to the more leading candidates and try to go after LePen in the main election...or whatever they call it...

Besides, it's still no big deal.

[Matt Carroll]

Because no matter who wins, they will still be French.

[Kronos]

HaHAAAAAA!!

[devincf]

I'm psyched that Kronos doesn't see why this is a big deal. A large number of people voting for evil is no biggie.

Awesome. Please, continue to show your true colors.

Borders language and hate.

[Kronos]

It isn't a big deal to me because...
A) It's not in the United States.
B) It's the French equivalent of a Primary.
C) Le Pen's position statement listed above is not hateful in any way. It's a statement of Patriotism and Nationalism on the part of Le Pen.

[Ben (formally Ned Fats)]

Kronos:
It isn't a big deal to me because...
A) It's not in the United States.
B) It's the French equivalent of a Primary.
C) Le Pen's position statement listed above is not hateful in any way. It's a statement of Patriotism and Nationalism on the part of Le Pen.Except for answer B...man I'd put money that you would have initially supported Hitler if you lived at that time. From the American perspective early on what was the difference?

[Kronos]

Why is it that when some of us brought up WWII during the time following September 11 we were told not to bring it up as it was not relevant or some such thing.

But bringing up Hitler and equivocating is ok for you to do eh?

[Ben (formally Ned Fats)]

Kronos:
Why is it that when some of us brought up WWII during the time following September 11 we were told not to bring it up as it was not relevant or some such thing.

But bringing up Hitler and equivocating is ok for you to do eh?Why are you putting words in my mouth? Am I everyone who brought up WW2? Not to my knowledge...

My point is that you probably sound exactly like the people in the US who ignored Hitler when he came to power.

[devincf]

DaveB:
[QB]
Some Le Pen highlights

"In 1987, he said that the Nazi death camps were "a mere detail" of World War II. In 1990, he was convicted of incitement to racial hatred by casting doubt on the Nazi persecution of Jews and Gypsies under a French law banning such rhetoric. He was fined the equivalent of $233,000 and has appealed the sentence to the European Court of Human Rights."

"LePen’s most egregious recent’ comment, evoking widespread protest from parties across the political spectrum and from human rights and Jewish organizations, was that "the races are not equal’ It was a comment that was repeated by the newly elected Mayor of Vitrolles, Mine Mégret, and seems to be a staple of the FN ideology. Both LePen and Mme Mégret elaborated on the statement by noting that, after all, different races have different strengths. Thus, both said, Blacks are better at sports."
[QB]I can't imagine why some people would be equating the rise of a racist hatemonger in Europe with Hitler.

Please, keep telling us this is no big deal.

[devincf]

And Hitler and WW2 could not be less relevant to the situation with bin Laden and terrorists. If you can't understand that, all those drugs you did damaged you more than I imagined.

[Blunt]

Yeah right this is no big deal. I may wake up in less than one week in a fascist country with all my liberties took away from me because I'm not on LePen's side but hey as long as it is not in the US; who gives a flying fuck? You know that's probably what a lot of americans thought when Hitler rised to power, in the same democratic way. And we all now how good that turned out for the US. People's egoism is really fucking scary at times.

[Kronos]

fine...the people of France elect this guy so you all gang up on me...I get it.

[devincf]

Kronos:
Actually, those sound really reasonable. Sort of like Borders, Language and Culture, the three things that define a Nation.That's why people are ganging up on you.

You are an apologist for a bad person.

Get a clue.

[Blunt]

Kronos:
fine...the people of France elect this guy so you all gang up on me...I get it.Either you fail to understand the gravity of the situation or you don't want to.

[devincf]

He gets it.

Problem is he AGREES with it.

[Kronos]

It's not my place or anyone else's besides the people of France to agree or disagree with France's decision to tentatively elect this individual.

[Kronos]

You are an apologist for a bad person.
Interesting. The same thing can be said of you too...and yet like me I'll bet those accusations aren't true as well.

[Kronos]

The bottom line: It's France's business. If this is so bad what do you propose we do about it? Overturn an election in another country?

I really don't get what all the hubbub is about if you can't do anything about it...if it needed to be done.

We've had our hands in too many things in the past.

[imported_Adam Warren]

Kronos, I don't think anyone has delusions of invading France[insert German joke here]. Of course the world isn't going to do anything except condem French politics. Who would dream about meddling in the affairs of another country—its not as though they're electing a socialist leader. That's so mid-eighties.

Any how, the issue is very debatable, since it signals the rise of right-wing sentiments in the western world. Furthermore, the policies of LePen are open to discussion, as they will affect global politics should he be elected. France withdrawing from the EU?

[imported_Adam Warren]

Let’s go through LePen’s policy:

For the survival of the agricultural and rural world

Priority to French-produced food, guaranteeing decent incomes for farmers, declaring a moratorium on farmers' debts, defending family farms and acting to end the depopulation of rural areas.

—I can only agree with this. Urbanization and the death of family farms is a serious problem.

Jobs for the French

Giving priority to French nationals for jobs and developing continuous professional training.

—Not a healthy policy in the homogenized European job market, where any individual member of the EU is employable throughout the EU. Possible platform for legitimizing race-based hiring.

Family preference

A "respect for life from its beginning to its end" [seen as reform of liberal abortion laws], benefits for French parents equal to the minimum wage, allowing adoption before birth and simplifying adoption procedures for young French orphans.

— Kooky right-to-life religious tripe. Encouraging ‘pure’ French babies(they do this in Quebec too), a precourser to more Hitlerian policies. Basically a call for French racial strength.

Stopping the flow of immigration

Establish French and European priority in housing, jobs and social support, immediately expelling all illegal immigrants, stop family regrouping and the automatic acquisition of French citizenship.

— I know France has HUGE illegal immegrant/crime problem which needs to be addressed. Possibly in a less controversial manner.

Ending red tape

Abolishing inheritance tax for children, progressively bringing down income tax and lower taxes on small businesses.

—Bald-faced appeal to old-money.

For a Europe of nations

"Denouncing" the Maastricht, Schengen and Amsterdam treaties, ending the right of foreigners to vote in French elections, abolishing the European commission.

—Seems like a harkenning back to the good old days of surrendering to Germany. A Europe of nations invading each other.

For a new protectionism

Re-establishing France's commercial border for French jobs and products, helping companies with markets at home and abroad and cutting back state and public expenses.

—Backwards but understandable policy. Dangerous only to the econemy of France.

To transmit knowledge

Depoliticise teaching and schoolbooks, establish "conditions of free choice" in schools, improving the teaching of French cultural heritage and promoting merit in schools.

—Nationalism in schools.

Helping the health service

Separating the social insurance held by French citizens and foreigners, assuring identical social protection for all French people.

—More nationalism.

For law and order

Zero tolerance, reinforcing policing at national borders, and dismantling delinquent gangs.

—Who knows what this means. Certainly more than what it appears to.

Reconstructing the army

Creating a national guard for territorial defence, modernising strategic nuclear forces and improving living conditions for military personnel.

—Militarism. Utterly stupid, since it’s a self-fulfilling prophecy. Nuclear weapons and so on.

For French prestige

Refuse the "new world order" imposed by the US on Nato and preserving French sovereignty in its overseas territories.

—Extreme nationalism. Imperialism. Bolstering the military. Encouraging French babies. What next, an act declaring the party with over 46% of the seats gets complete control over Parliment a la Mussolini? In and of themselves, these policies are relatively inoccuous, together—as a whole—the tone is oddly familiar, in 1930’s Europe sense.

[Matt Carroll]

Maybe my advice for some of you a few months back to go live in France might not have been such a bad idea after all.

I just love the fact that you guys are in such a lather over this, but when I dared mention the hypocrisy of SOME in Europe for criticizing the United States and her policies some time back I was blasted for my failure to understand and be tolerant of the views of other nations.
Talk about hypocrisy.
I think this is a terrible thing, but France has no one to blame but herself.
Anti-semitism is on the rise in France, and it's Muslim population (which dwarfs the Jewish pop.) is beoming increasingly powerful and dangerous.
This was a vote that showed just how backwards and dangerous France has become, and will continue to be.
I find it hard to understand how fascism could gain such a foothold in a nation that was one of the primary victims of Hitler.

[Kronos]

Any how, the issue is very debatable, since it signals the rise of right-wing sentiments in the western world. And why is this a bad thing and the converse not true?

[imported_Adam Warren]

Call, this potential government is more anti-American than the current one. They consider NATO a "new world order."

The Muslim(read: North African) community happens to represent the very illegal immigrants LePen suggests deporting—he is not a result of Muslim-caused anti-Semitism,

France is no-less backwards and dangerous than the United States or any other country.

Facism is not an inherently Hitlerian concept. Russia was a primary victim of Hitler, and that certainly didn't them from being facist or Tito in Yugoslavia, or that Romanian guy with the un-typable name in Romania.

Facism is by-product of certain social ideals: extreme nationalism; isolationaism; concepts of racial purity; militarism; imperialism, and so on. LePen flirts with those ideas.

And we blasted you because the European criticisms of America were valid. Just as these criticisms of French sentiments are valid.

[imported_Adam Warren]

And why is this a bad thing and the converse not true?

I stated that the rise of the right was debatable, and the form by which it rises in France a bad thing.

[imported_Adam Warren]

I should have said far-right. Which is a bad thing in my opinion.

[Kronos]

True, extremism in any political direction is the wrong direction.

And regarding France, Le Pen, Chirac, and me: Chirac will be re-elected, there's no doubt about it.

As for me, if Le Pen gets elected...no change in my state of mind, status in life, work load, family life, tax statement, etc.

If Chirac gets re-elected...no change in my state of mind, status in life, work load, family life, tax statement, etc.

I suspect it's the same for most of you -unless of course you live in France.

[devincf]

call:
Anti-semitism is on the rise in France, and it's Muslim population (which dwarfs the Jewish pop.) is beoming increasingly powerful and dangerous.I wish that was a shockingly racist thing for you to say, but it's par for the course. Why are Muslims inherently more dangerous than any other group?

[Matt Carroll]

Hey there coward! You gonna try to make real point tonight, or just pull out all your old cliches about me being a racist?

[Matt Carroll]

Forget it. You never have a point to make. All you have is hate and smugness.
So let me try one of the new features of the new C.H.U.D. message boards: the ignore list!

[devincf]

I asked you a question.

[Matt Carroll]

Damn....doesn't work for the forums. Only in pm guess. Oh well.....

[devincf]

And you avoid the issue. Way to be cowardly.

[imported_Adam Warren]

Islam is more dangerous than other main-stream religions due to its parochial, and needless to say, patriarchal tendancies. The prodigous ability of Islam to create a thearchy wherever it takes-root is similar to that of the Catholic church, circa 1400.

In fact, one could view the present glut of jihads and intafadas as one of history's briliant ironies. Rather than an advanced Muslim culture being rampaged by backwards Christian crusaders, our modern world has regressive fundimentalists jihading against the Judeo-Christians. Whoop-dee-doo.

Anyhow, Islamist extremism, and the pervasive synergy of church and state in Islamic countries makes Islam the most dangerous religion going. Which provides nothing upon which to judge your average Muslim. Merely the religion as whole.

Cults on the other hand...

[Will]

I just love the way that the losers on these boards, when they are getting their asses kicked on a political point, ALWAYS, ALWAYS try and equate what the opposite's side views are, to Hilter and the Nazis. Very cool and a tired and tested tactic when your side has been shown to be suffering from terminal ignorance.

Those who want to forcible take money away from those who earned it, those who hate and want to punish a segment of society (remember, those who have earned money are evil!) those who do the most bashing of their opponents, no matter what, love to call those who oppose them, NAZIS.

From this point forward just realize that when you are called a Nazi or are equated with the Nazis, it simply means you have won the argument.
At that point just thank them and move on.
Cool. eh?

[Ben (formally Ned Fats)]

Nasty Ol' Will:
I just love the way that the losers on these boards, when they are getting their asses kicked on a political point, ALWAYS, ALWAYS try and equate what the opposite's side views are, to Hilter and the Nazis. Very cool and a tired and tested tactic when your side has been shown to be suffering from terminal ignorance.

Those who want to forcible take money away from those who earned it, those who hate and want to punish a segment of society (emember, those who have earned money are evil!) those who do the most bashing of their opponents, no matter what, love to call those who oppose them, NAZIS.

From this point forward just realize that when you are called a Nazi or are equated with the Nazis, it simply means you have won the argument.
At that point just thank them and move on.
Cool. eh?Ok thats it. WILL YOU ARE THE BIGGEST FUCKING HYPOCRITE EVER. Go back and read our thread about the protests in New York a while back when you compared the protesters to Nazis.

The funny thing is this one of the few threads when you can use the comparisions to Nazi's. This takes place in Europe where Facism seems to be on the rise, it is not just the people on the boards condemning his rise to power but most other nations as well.

By the way, just to point this out....you just called yourself a LOSER :) HA, Will's a loser.

Mikah is right by the way, their is no point in talking to you and I keep on getting sucked in...that is my stupidity.

[Will]

Ned Fats:
Nasty Ol' Will:
I just love the way that the losers on these boards, when they are getting their asses kicked on a political point, ALWAYS, ALWAYS try and equate what the opposite's side views are, to Hilter and the Nazis. Very cool and a tired and tested tactic when your side has been shown to be suffering from terminal ignorance.

Those who want to forcible take money away from those who earned it, those who hate and want to punish a segment of society (emember, those who have earned money are evil!) those who do the most bashing of their opponents, no matter what, love to call those who oppose them, NAZIS.

From this point forward just realize that when you are called a Nazi or are equated with the Nazis, it simply means you have won the argument.
At that point just thank them and move on.
Cool. eh?Ok thats it. WILL YOU ARE THE BIGGEST FUCKING HYPOCRITE EVER. Go back and read our thread about the protests in New York a while back when you compared the protesters to Nazis.

The funny thing is this one of the few threads when you can use the comparisions to Nazi's. This takes place in Europe where Facism seems to be on the rise, it is not just the people on the boards condemning his rise to power but most other nations as well.

By the way, just to point this out....you just called yourself a LOSER :) HA, Will's a loser.

Mikah is right by the way, their is no point in talking to you and I keep on getting sucked in...that is my stupidity."...that is my stupidity."

THERE! You see Ned, we DO agree on somethings.

[devincf]

And no reply.

[Will]

devilf:
And no reply.Sorry! I'll try and use smaller words next time so you can understand what was said.

[devincf]

Not you dummy. Read the rest of a thread before responding. Or have someone read it to you.

[Michael Rabattino]

Damn.

That sucks for France, but it's not like you people need to get worked up over it.

I'm with Kronos...who cares!?!?! If it isn't gonna affect us, why come on here and start calling people racists/cowards/anti-semites or whatever the fuck most of you are doing.

The guy isn't even elected yet, right?

[Jim Pappas/Jabba]

Well Verbal, I have to disagree with you here. I do care what happens in France, and it is a disturbing development when someone like Le Pen becomes popular. This world exists symbiotically. No country is truly independent. We exist as a collective whether or not you believe that.

In my mind Le Pen represents the ideologies of hate and intolerance. Not good things. If the people of France are developing that mindset, then we can look around and see that same kind of thought process occuring within other nations as well.

It appears there is a polarization going on everywhere. People are choosing sides and making a stand. It is those who are choosing to hate, fear, loathe, and kill that scare me.

I can point the finger of blame everywhere, and that is, indeed, disturbing.

[Kronos]

We exist as a collective...

Resistance is...futile?

[Michael Rabattino]

jabbadonut:
We exist as a collective whether or not you believe that.
Well, maybe you're right.

After all, they were there for us when 9/11 happened. Maybe we should care.

[Kronos]

TOOO-FUCKING-SHAY!

[imported_Adam Warren]

While I'm not sure about 'collective' being the best word, our planet is certainly more connected than ever. And closer. If one were to draw the anology of cars(for countries) on a freeway, we'd all be tailgating at the moment.

What does that mean?

Well, if France suddenly stops, there's a better chance of an accident occurring, for one thing. Do you really think we would unaffected if France pulled out of the EU? It means we are far more dependant on others being in control of their 'automobile'.

[imported_Adam Warren]

Good post Verbal.

[Nighttrap38]

Can't the French ever elect a moderate? Someone who isn't a Communist or a Nazi?

[Blunt]

Nighttrap38:
Can't the French ever elect a moderate? Someone who isn't a Communist or a Nazi?A Communist president? In France? bwahahahahahaha
Man check your facts before you speak. There never was a communist president in France.

[Will]

devilf:
Not you dummy. Read the rest of a thread before responding. Or have someone read it to you.Yeah, sure it was numbskull. Riiiiiiiiight!

[Will]

It seems to me that France's history going back many hundreds of years is a continual setting up against the other countries of Europe. The attitude of superiority is ridiculous, but exists nevertheless. Its funny, because I don't get how the French could consider they are superior in any way. They have good food and they make good wine, but that just makes them the world's cooks.

Militarily, they compare right up there with Iraq. Has France ever won any real war? I don't recall one. They sure lose a lot of them.

Sports teams? Olympic teams? I don't get it. Its great that their women wear small bathing suits, now if we could simply get them to shave and bath once in a while. Their human rights record is probably second only to Germany, in Europe, for being abusive.

France believes the Germans were so wrong in declaring themselves the "Master Race" when many Frenchmen KNOW its the French who are the real Master Race.

The Le Car was a classic French product. As is the Renault Dophine. Don't laugh, mine used to hit speeds approaching 20 miles per hour on a big hill, before the brakes failed and the rubber band broke.

God, I love the French.

[Nelson]

As long as they don't stop production and shipping of "Cristal" champange, and
Brillat Savarin" & "Buche Chevre" cheeses, I could care less.

We have enough problems to worry about.

[Clarence Beaks]

What..... no Jerry Lewis jokes? Or a Maginot Lines gag?

If you insist on staging a hack comedy routine, there's no reason to half-ass it.

[Will]

Clarence Beaks:
What..... no Jerry Lewis jokes? Or a Maginot Lines gag?

If you insist on staging a hack comedy routine, there's no reason to half-ass it.Clarence,

When one speaks of the French, there is no need to be half assed, unless one is French, in which case being half assed just seems to come naturally. If you are French, I appologise, for bad mouthing your entire country. I am sure there are some nice French people. Logic dictates that there must be.

I actually had a good time in France. I only had one complaint. There are just so many French people living there.

[Blunt]

Clarence Beaks:
What..... no Jerry Lewis jokes? Or a Maginot Lines gag?

If you insist on staging a hack comedy routine, there's no reason to half-ass it.I love you, man.

[Will]

Bluntmatt:
Clarence Beaks:
What..... no Jerry Lewis jokes? Or a Maginot Lines gag?

If you insist on staging a hack comedy routine, there's no reason to half-ass it.I love you, man.Yeah, well you ain't getting his beer!

[Clarence Beaks]

Nasty Ol' Will:

I actually had a good time in France. I only had one complaint. There are just so many French people living there.Rupert Pupkin lives.

[Will]

Oops! Sorry, Msr. Frog!

What is inncorrect? Are you under the impression that the French are a particulary clean people? Would you acknowledge they don't bathe as often as say, the English?

Do you believe the French people, as a whole, are polite, especially towards Americans?

Does France's human rights record rival that of say maybe not Iraq, but not maybe the US or even say Mexico's.

Are you under the illustion that the French people don't belive they are far superior to everyone else in the world and act like it or lets say that a large portion of the population feels that way?

How do you feel about France's military? World War Two, let's say. Forget the Maginot Line.

The British had to sink France's Navy to keep it from falling into Germany's hands because the French refused to scuddle their ships, even though it was obvious that Germany was going take France without much trouble.

Do you deny that there was a lot of happy cooperation with the Germans who took France.

I know the resistance was active and brave, but I am talking about aaverage Frenchman.

I know you are feeling offended, but let's both try and avoid generalisations and try to stick with specifics. I will if you will.

Out of curiosity, how do the non French Canadians feel about the French speaking Canadians and how they treat other Canadians? I am very curious.

I believ we have some such here on CHUD. What say you non French Canadaians?

I do not hate all French people. Some are screwed up like any other county, but the porportion seems high in France. Sorry, but that is how I see it.

[imported_Adam Warren]

Cut it Will. This is not salient to any discussions at hand.

[Seahawk]

WOW.

I came in late.

Kronos has a point. France is France. But when it begins to possibly affect us, things aren't as rosy.

But I think that the French people have realized thier mistake and are going to attempt to fix thier error.

And Devin, you continue to amaze me, as does Will at times. You both need to pull that trigger finger a bit farther from the trigger itself.

*Edited to prevent mudslinging.

[Kevin Matchstick]

Will, I think you misunderstood Beaks' intent. He wasn't offended by what you wrote (I mean, who could actually be offended by your insecure ravings at this point?). He was just pointing out that you were being consistently unfunny and boring in your posts in this thread.

[Clarence Beaks]

Again with World War II! Look, the German WWII record, obviously, is even worse, but there's no denying they've been a solid ally throughout the Cold War, and beyond reunification; ergo, hanging an entire country for the sins of over a half-decade ago is just a tad foolish. As for today, yeah, I've got problems with the French government, as does its protest voting citizens, but I don't allow that to feed into some silly resentment of the country as a whole.

I'm guessing, Will, when you went to France, you were gang-raped getting off the plane, and, ever since, fly into an uncontrollable rage whenever you hear "La Marsellaise". It's okay. Just remember, it's not your fault. It's not your fault.

Whatever allows you to perpetuate your blithely ignorant hatred of the French, go with it, but know that you're doing a bang-up job proving the blanket xenophobia of the far right here in the United States. Keep up the good work!

Honestly, if you'd just go back to that comedy routine..... it's entertaining in an uniquely cringe-inducing fashion.

[Clarence Beaks]

Well, Kevin, I have been wondering how long I should allow Will to operate under the assumption that I'm French. I must admit, it's an unexpected, even perverse, thrill to be slandered as a "frog".

[imported_Adam Warren]

There's nothing wrong(well, there is, but who cares) with taking a few jabs at another country. If something is terribly wrong, I'm going straight to hell. The thing is, Will, you seem quite serious about this French thing, which quite humorous in one of those appallingly stupid ways.

[imported_Adam Warren]

And if Beaks was French, he would have surrendered the argument ages ago.

[Seahawk]

Adam Warren:
And if Beaks was French, he would have surrendered the argument ages ago.ZING!

And this thread is back on track...good work boys! :)

[Blunt]

Actually, I think Will refered to me when he said "frog". Wow that was original.

Adam Warren:
And if Beaks was French, he would have surrendered the argument ages ago.Eh eh eh.

[imported_Adam Warren]

<img src="http://www.globeandmail.com/series/cartoon/images/30tueedcar.gif" alt="" />

[Kronos]

Heh heh...

[Will]

Adam Warren:
Cut it Will. This is not salient to any discussions at hand.HEy ADam,

When I go braindead and decide to let you censor me, I'll put a tube by your mouth so you can talk to me about it. In the meantime, when and if I ever need an assbrained, doped up, nonexperienced, half assed, shit for brained, dickwad to do my thinking for me, I'll let you know. In the meantime just skip my posts. They'll only confuse you anyway.

You may now return to slapping your monkey.

[Will]

Kevin Matchstick:
Will, I think you misunderstood Beaks' intent. He wasn't offended by what you wrote (I mean, who could actually be offended by your insecure ravings at this point?). He was just pointing out that you were being consistently unfunny and boring in your posts in this thread.Kevin,

If that were a punishable offense, you'd be doing life. You contribute nothing but hatred for those who disagree with you and have perhaps the smallest and most closed mind of anyone else on CHUD, save one other. But thanks for flaunting YOUR particular brand of insanity AGAIN, for all to see.

Imagine in real life when you not only have to deal and interact with people who have a different thought about something than you do, but worse yet, when you find out that your viewpoint is in the minority. What are you going to do? Are you going to whine and cry and piss and moan, as you do here? Ah well, its your life to fuck up and I have complete confidence you are and will continue to do just that.

Continue on with your raving. Self delusion must be wonderful thing for you. You really are good at it, aren't you?

[Will]

Clarence Beaks:
Again with World War II! Look, the German WWII record, obviously, is even worse, but there's no denying they've been a solid ally throughout the Cold War, and beyond reunification; ergo, hanging an entire country for the sins of over a half-decade ago is just a tad foolish. As for today, yeah, I've got problems with the French government, as does its protest voting citizens, but I don't allow that to feed into some silly resentment of the country as a whole.

I'm guessing, Will, when you went to France, you were gang-raped getting off the plane, and, ever since, fly into an uncontrollable rage whenever you hear "La Marsellaise". It's okay. Just remember, it's not your fault. It's not your fault.

Whatever allows you to perpetuate your blithely ignorant hatred of the French, go with it, but know that you're doing a bang-up job proving the blanket xenophobia of the far right here in the United States. Keep up the good work!

Honestly, if you'd just go back to that comedy routine..... it's entertaining in an uniquely cringe-inducing fashion.Nice rant, dude! And even better is how you managed to avoid specifically addressing any of the points I raised. That's a good, tried and true tactic to use when one can't support ones position.

Fuck being PC. There are bad things in this world. Sorry to be the one to tell you, but there are. Not all people are wonderful. Not all countries are great. I asked specific questions, you attacked. I raised points that are painful for you and you avoid them.

Nice, but oops, there I go pointing out your tactic. Shit, people might realize that you are avoiding the subject and that would be terrible.

Specifically, I don't hate the French. I think they act in a superior fashion, believe they are superior to everyone else, don't bath enough, try to offend people from other countries, particularly Americans and British people and have a terrible record for conducting war.

Those are specifics.

Perhaps you have some familiarity with being gang rapped. How it fits into this discussion, I do not know. Now, whatever you do don't break the mold and answer any specific question. I would not attack you back, what I stated was my opinion, nothing more. Obviously you have not formed one as you responded in generalities and personal attacks that are not germane to the questions. That demonstrates the very characteristic which you decry in your post and that makes you a hypocrite.

The subject of this thread was France and my posts are in that vein. Yours are not nor are Matchdick's, but I've grown to expect that from him. BTW, you didn't answer, Are you French? Are you French Canadian? Is that what upset you?

Are you one of those that believes French Canadains should have their own country?

I think I may be closing in on the real truth here.

[Clarence Beaks]

Nasty Ol' Will:

Perhaps you have some familiarity with being gang rapped. Yes, I was once gang rapped on the downtown C train by Rakim, KRS-1 and Biz Markie; it was horrible.

Perhaps you need a refresher course in constructing an argument. First off, I only entered the fracas for a little batting practice at your expense, and my terribly fagile ego is so much the better for it. Secondly, I didn't see you make a point worth refuting, outside of some tired historical references (which were dismissed blanket-style in my first paragraph) and stale French gags, so pardon me if I didn't Evans your Novak, but why should I when the "points" you raised had nothing to do with my original, if hazily stated, thesis that you're a silly bastard not worth taking seriously?

BTW, just so I'm absolutely clear, regurgitating France's fairly shameful WWII record and accusing them of not showering does not an opinion make.

As for whether or not I'm French..... depends on who's asking.

[Ben (formally Ned Fats)]

Will, why dont you crawl back into your nice mansion and stop bothering people? You want to hear something funny that you are most likely going to deride after I post it? You and Devilf are made for each other. You guys should go out sometime....

[Will]

Clarence Beaks:
Nasty Ol' Will:

Perhaps you have some familiarity with being gang rapped. Secondly, I didn't see you make a point worth refuting, outside of some tired historical references

if hazily stated, thesis that you're a silly bastard not worth taking seriously?
And yet, you have now responded to my posts FIVE TIMES on this thread alone. I am afraid your actions point out the bullshit you are slinging here. That's OK, really, but you do keep responding and your claims that my posts are worthless are falling on deaf ears. Your continuing posts are a more truthful indication of your true feelings.

BTW, just so I'm absolutely clear, regurgitating France's fairly shameful WWII record and accusing them of not showering does not an opinion make.

I guess that's your opinion. Dismissing that with which you disagree is A tactic I suppose. Its weak, but its a tactic.

As for whether or not I'm French..... depends on who's asking.[/QB][/QUOTE]

Are you French or French Canadaian? I know that's a tough question, but you could ask your mommy or daddy, if you are unsure.

[imported_Adam Warren]

Nasty Ol' Will:
Adam Warren:
Cut it Will. This is not salient to any discussions at hand.HEy ADam,

When I go braindead and decide to let you censor me, I'll put a tube by your mouth so you can talk to me about it. In the meantime, when and if I ever need an assbrained, doped up, nonexperienced, half assed, shit for brained, dickwad to do my thinking for me, I'll let you know. In the meantime just skip my posts. They'll only confuse you anyway.

You may now return to slapping your monkey.Intelligent response. Censorship would entail ereasing your post, however, I Requested that you to stop these incitations. This is far from "thinking for Will." Or censorship. It is merely a plea for civil discourse—something of which you appear incapable.

I repeat, please be civil. And for your reference, the useless wind quoted above is not civil.

[imported_Adam Warren]

Nasty Ol' Will:
Continue on with your raving. Self delusion must be wonderful thing for you. You really are good at it, aren't you?I wish I could say the same for you William Bowen, however, I must stress that your ravings both are unecassary and unwanted. They offer ZERO insight on the topic at hand.

[Clarence Beaks]

Nasty Ol' Will:
And yet, you have now responded to my posts FIVE TIMES on this thread alone.What can I say, I'm incredibly bored. Plus, I did say this was batting practice, and one only improves through repetition; ergo, as long as you're here, I'll be around to fire off similarly glib retorts.

I am afraid your actions point out the bullshit you are slinging here. That's OK, really, but you do keep responding and your claims that my posts are worthless are falling on deaf ears. Your continuing posts are a more truthful indication of your true feelings.Do you have a license to practice dime store psychology on these message boards? And, in this case, it would be more accurate to say that your posts are falling on amused ears.



I guess that's your opinion. Dismissing that with which you disagree is A tactic I suppose. Its weak, but its a tactic. Then the onus is on you to connect the one with the other. How does a country's collective, lacking personal hygeine play into their apparently willing (as you would have it) failure to repel the Germans?

This should be good.


Are you French or French Canadaian? I know that's a tough question, but you could ask your mommy or daddy, if you are unsure.They're in bed right now making more Beakses, so I'll ask them in the morning; although I'd love it if you could help me with a pronounciation on "Canadaian". Thanks heaps!

And when you figure out how this all ties back into LePen, *please* let me know.

[Will]

Adam Warren:
Nasty Ol' Will:
Continue on with your raving. Self delusion must be wonderful thing for you. You really are good at it, aren't you?I wish I could say the same for you William Bowen, however, I must stress that your ravings both are unecassary and unwanted. They offer ZERO insight on the topic at hand.Adam. Thanks for your attack, or I guess I should say opinion. However, when it comes to most subjects you could save your responses to me as there is no mystery as to how they will be written, but I suspect you can't control youself, so blast away. I am not saying mine aren't predicable, they are, I differ from you on political subbjects, as you lack any real life experience, but that's OK. At least I always know where you stand.

[Will]

Beaks,

Make that six times you've responded. Isn't that some kind of record?

[Will]

Are you starting to hate poor ol Will? Ahhhhhhhhhhh! That's sweet.

[Clarence Beaks]

Nasty Ol' Will:
Beaks,

Make that six times you've responded. Isn't that some kind of record?Just in case it's not.....

[Kronos]

Clarence Beaks:
Nasty Ol' Will:
Beaks,

Make that six times you've responded. Isn't that some kind of record?Just in case it's not.....Hee hee...I can appreciate that! Never let it be said that Clarence Beaks is an underachiever!

[Kevin Matchstick]

Nasty Ol' Will:
Kevin Matchstick:
Will, I think you misunderstood Beaks' intent. He wasn't offended by what you wrote (I mean, who could actually be offended by your insecure ravings at this point?). He was just pointing out that you were being consistently unfunny and boring in your posts in this thread.Kevin,

If that were a punishable offense, you'd be doing life. You contribute nothing but hatred for those who disagree with you and have perhaps the smallest and most closed mind of anyone else on CHUD, save one other. But thanks for flaunting YOUR particular brand of insanity AGAIN, for all to see.

Imagine in real life when you not only have to deal and interact with people who have a different thought about something than you do, but worse yet, when you find out that your viewpoint is in the minority. What are you going to do? Are you going to whine and cry and piss and moan, as you do here? Ah well, its your life to fuck up and I have complete confidence you are and will continue to do just that.

Continue on with your raving. Self delusion must be wonderful thing for you. You really are good at it, aren't you?And you accuse me of hatred?

[Will]

Sure I do. I've read your posts.

[Kevin Matchstick]

But why do you rip 'hatred' when you are so obviously full of hatred yourself? Look - you even when so far as to imagine into my non-CHUD life and wish me ill.

[devincf]

Will has gone insane.

Someone get this man an audit! His Thetans are taking over!!!!!

PS, Will: Adam is MODERATOR of this forum. Frankly, I think it is a credit to him that he has not erased your drivel. I would.

[Will]

devilf:
Will has gone insane.

Someone get this man an audit! His Thetans are taking over!!!!!

PS, Will: Adam is MODERATOR of this forum. Frankly, I think it is a credit to him that he has not erased your drivel. I would.Yes Devin, I know. But your bigoted, hate filled, existance is nothing if not your spewing insanity around like pus from a wound. If and when you ever moderate, few will venture there, because people don't usually like moderators who are afraid to go out of their houses to work, who stay home and their co-worker are overjoyed to be rid of them, who stay stoned a lot of the time,who easily violate whatever law they want but bitch when others violate the laws they selectively want enforced, who hate all religions, probably because most religions advocate some moral or ethical code to live by and this person has none, who seems to like boys, instead of girls, but is afraid to come out and admit it, like Tony and Verbal did, who likes to terrorize little girls who don't want to date them, who never, never, has much nice to say about anything and is known across the boards for his viscious attacks on anyone who differs from him because he is incapable of using logic in his posts. His only weapons are hatred and insanity, along with a healthy dose of bigotry and predjudice. Yes, I know you would censor me, given the chance. I know it well.

Yes Devin, I know you would censor me if you could because unlike most normal, hard working people who would try and get along with other people, you don't seem capable of NOT being a hate monger, and religious bigot, but then since when would a more honest person could come up with fake claim that they are too distressed to go to work and that they have to work from their own house. Such a person couldn't play on the computer and smoke dope all day long and cheat his employer out of money and actually most other chewers know you would censor and attack everyone, because your hatred for one and all is about all you are made of.

Its as I've said before, Having you hate me and anything I stand for is quite an honor for me. I am in great company. Its when you quit hating me and stop spewing your viciousness and bigotry at me that I will have to start worrying that I am no longer doing enough to provoke and madden you.

Any other questions you need answered?

[Kevin Matchstick]

HEY. What about Matchstick?

[devincf]

Nasty Ol' Will
[QBAny other questions you need answered?[/QB]Yeah, are you as crazy in real life as you seem here?

[Will]

No Devin, that would be you from the accounts I have heard from those that actually know you or have had the misfortune of meeting you.

Of course, your particular brand of insanity shines through your vicious posts and attempts at pretending that your bigotry and hatred are just normal things, yet I suspect those on the boards have you figured out by now.

You really are a misrable person I suspect and I think that is very sad.

[devincf]

I think it's awesome that you said those things about me after what you posted in this thread. I would quote all the hateful, stupid and nasty comments you have made about people here, but it's late and i'm sleepy.

[Will]

devilf:
I think it's awesome that you said those things about me after what you posted in this thread. I would quote all the hateful, stupid and nasty comments you have made about people here, but it's late and i'm sleepy.You forgot stupid and insane.

[devincf]

Actually, nix that.

I put a link in here detailing what a scam artist you are, but I don't feel like getting annoyed emails from Nick. I didn't think it would be WISE

[Will]

devilf:
Actually, nix that.

I put a link in here detailing what a scam artist you are, but I don't feel like getting annoyed emails from Nick.No, actually you only have something from one lady who never worked for me and who in fact only met me once and who certainly never worked for me, not an article at all.

But there is no surprize that you would mischaracterize it as an "article." You seem incapable of telling the truth.

You see Devin, it is a message board post, not an article.

If you feel you must, then post it and you personally should call me a scam artist. I would love to to deliver a little legal love on you if you are that stupid.

Also, you might care to see the current developments in the issue which you emailed to most chewers a few months ago. It seems the side you root for is in disarray and it turns out your side are now accusing each other of some very serious crimes. You'll be deeply saddened to know that the main person who was financing the exercise in hatred and another lady, have named the lawyer involved on the side you cheer for, as being out for money only and have testified that that lawyer actually put people up to lying under oath. It seems the case is falling apart.

Try the St Pete Times. You won't like what you are about to read, but then, that's life.

Sorry to depress you so badly, but such is life in the day of someone like you.

A post on a small message board, by one nutty lady, formerly married to a former employee of mine, who remains very good friends with me even today and regularly visits me at my home, does not equal an "article" Devin. She made a post, just as you do and her assumtions are as flawed as most of your posts are, as well. If what she said was true, why no legal action? I am certainly collectable and I have a lot more than she claimed her husband was entitled to, he on the other hand dismisses what she says as complete bullshit. He's the one who worked for me and he says she is lying. Why would he do that? I know you don't want to know that, but tough shit.

Of course you know that in my opinion you are insane and your fame in mislabeling things and outright lying is legendary, and we all know you won't hestite to post whatever you want to post.

Your biggoted posts don't seem to have much effect on those who read them, judging from the emails I receive. As I said, the people here are not as stupid as you believe them to be.

Here we go combating terrorisim and here we have the "Young girl terrorist" still on the loose. Niiiiiiiice, Devin. Real nice. You must feel so brave.

Terorrized any young girl, female Chewers lately, hmmmm. hmmmm?

[Burke]

I realize that as soon as Adam or Nick wakes up this stuff will be gone, but let me just say that I, for one, am amused. If only this was a put on like Will v HAM...

[Will]

Burke:
I realize that as soon as Adam or Nick wakes up this stuff will be gone, but let me just say that I, for one, am amused. If only this was a put on like Will v HAM...Heh, I am amused also. Will v. HAM was a good one.

[imported_Adam Warren]

I'm going to start a new thread. I think we should keep this around for amusement and the such. One need-not come here for discourse on the present state of French democracy. Only cheap thrills and the lessons of Experience which we value so.

[Mad Man Mundt]

BEST THREAD EVER!!!!!

[Will]

Mad_Man_Mundt:
BEST THREAD EVER!!!!!Are you Mad? Er, wait! Sorry Madman.

[Mad Man Mundt]

No. Happy. Damned entertaining stuff, here.

[Michael Rabattino]

Screw it.