View Full Version : California Politics
Kronos
06-14-2002, 08:04 PM
Yes, we're in for a media blitz soon...and the Governor is distorting the facts already.
Davis' ad distorts Simon's S&L business record
By Daniel Weintraub -- Bee Columnist - (Published June 13, 2002)
It's not usually hard to feel sorry for little guys who get crushed by an overreaching and arbitrary government agency.
But what if the little guys are millionaires, and the "crushing" includes a taxpayer bailout of their failing savings and loan? The clear lines in such a story, admittedly, get a little hazier.
Yet that is what happened in the case of the Simon family and their investment in Western Federal Savings and Loan. The story is important just now because Bill Simon Jr. was one of those investors. And Simon is running for governor, the Republican candidate challenging Democrat Gray Davis in the November general election.
Simon, who has little experience in government, is running in part on his record as a "successful businessman." Davis, never a bashful campaigner, has taken that challenge head-on, airing ads this week that question Simon's fitness for office based on the failure of the savings and loan he helped direct.
"If he can't run an S&L," Davis asks, "how can he run California?"
Simon's business record is fair game. But this commercial is a cynical attempt by Davis to mislead ill-informed voters. While it is true that the savings and loan failed, the business went down only after the government broke its word to the investors. Simon is not the villain here. He is the victim.
Here's what happened.
In 1988 Simon's late father, William E. Simon, a former U.S. treasury secretary, wanted to buy a reasonably healthy Los Angeles-based savings and loan called Western Federal. Before he could do so, though, federal regulators encouraged him to also buy a failing and debt-ridden thrift, Bell Savings, and merge the two. To induce him to rescue Bell, the feds made certain promises to Simon and his investment group.
One of those promises had to do with capital reserves. Savings and loans, like banks, must maintain a certain amount of cash in reserve as a hedge against bad investments and uncollectible loans. Bank managers typically want to minimize these reserves, because any capital kept idle for this purpose is money they can't invest to earn higher returns for the business.
Federal regulators told Simon's group that, by merging the two institutions, they could claim "good will" from Bell's business as part of their reserves. In business, good will is the amount you pay for a company above and beyond what its assets are worth by themselves. It represents the intangible value of a company's place in the community, but it is not something you could auction off if you had to raise some money to pay your bills.
The Western Federal deal was one of a series of late-1980s transactions brokered by the Federal Savings and Loan Insurance Corp. Faced with mounting losses that would have kept the fund from covering all of its insured deposits, the agency gave sweet terms to investors, many of them well-connected, who were willing to put up some of their own money to turn around failing thrifts. The Simon group invested $210 million and got a $500 million note to cover Bell Savings' bad loans, plus tax advantages worth another $170 million.
Despite those benefits, the deal still would not have penciled out without the accounting provision allowing the new, merged entity to count $116 million in good will as part of its reserves. But a year after the deal was done, Congress abruptly changed the law, prohibiting the very technique that had made the Bell rescue possible.
Eliminating this kind of creative accounting made sense for the long run, but doing it retroactively had a devastating effect on Western Federal. Overnight, a huge gap opened in the thrift's balance sheet. The Simons and their partners would have had to come up with an additional $150 million to keep their business in line with the new regulations.
The Simon partnership didn't have another $150 million to throw into this enterprise. So they gave up. The feds seized Western Federal and spent $92 million to stabilize it before turning it over to new owners. The Simons, meanwhile, lost $40 million in the deal.
They weren't the only ones treated this way. Investors in hundreds of other savings and loans were given the same raw deal. Some sued the government. The Supreme Court eventually ruled in a 7-2 decision that the 1989 law represented a breach of a contract. The government had promised the investors one thing and done another.
Based on the high court's decision, Western Fed's investors filed a claim for damages. A federal court found the Simon group's petition valid. The only issue remaining is deciding how much the breach of contract contributed to the S&L's eventual collapse.
Davis describes this lawsuit derisively in his campaign ad as Simon "asking taxpayers to pay him back his investment." Well, OK. Two courts, including the highest court in the land, have ruled that the government shafted Simon and the other investors. His family never would have agreed to the deal to save Bell without a clear, written promise from the government that was later broken. Given the facts, who wouldn't do the same thing in his shoes?
Simon is still a long way from proving that his background in business would make him a good governor. But the Western Federal story, rather than being anexample of bad management, is a clear-cut case of bad government. If Davis can't see that, maybe he is the one who is unfit to be governor.
CTDeLude
06-14-2002, 08:38 PM
Man I just can't like Davis. This is the guy who screwed California royally with his lovely electricity workings and he wants us to forget that. Bah. Wilson was even a better governor and I wasn't too much a fan of Wilson that much either.
I think we need a bit more reminders of "rolling blackouts" to get the juices going again.
And I have a friend who was able to meet and talk to Simon for some time and he said he was a very impressive person. In fact it changed his ind about his ablitity to perhaps beat Davis in the election. This coming from a man who desires to be president one day. I kid you not. And I believe he might just have the balls and guts and the mind to do it.
He'll probably start out being the youngest mayor of Azusa though in the beginning.
As for SImon I voted for him of Riordan because good gawd Riordan was such a two timing fool. Riordan was a friend of Simon's and the ads he put out labelled him more Simon's mortal enemy. Simon seems to be a man who can stick to what he believes. Even being in the run to be a politician.
Micah Robinson
06-14-2002, 08:53 PM
Where's the distortion at?
Forget that the people breaking the promise to him are the federal government.
If ANY business owner goes in with shady partners and the enterprise falls apart, shouldn't the owner be responsible for making the decision to go in with the shady partners of his free will in the first place?
According to this logic, no business owner should be blamed for the failure of his business as long as any outside forces beyond his control affect the bottom line.
No business owner can control every circumstance of his enterprise. You can't control what customers will do...the economy....your own personal health...the personalities of your employees and partners....THEIR lives...genuine accidents on the job. All of that is out of your control.
But they ALL will adversely affect how you do business. The mark of a good business owner is how that person deals with those challenges.
This guy placed all of his eggs in the basket of federal regulators, yet these same regulators had no control over Congress, who at any time could invalidate what they were promising. He should've taken that more into consideration.
It's not "bad government." It's one group promising something they never could guarantee, and someone falling for it. There was never any "promise," in any legal sense at least. if there was, he could've successfully sued the government.
So it was "bad business." Straight up. No lying. No distortion. The only spin is in this article when the author would have you believe that this guy should be absolved from responsibility of his business failing. The only people who made The Simon Group go into this bad investment were The Simon Group. If they fell for the con, that's their fault.
CTDeLude
06-14-2002, 10:03 PM
Yet were talking about the government here...where (and you cannot mistake this) their word to the people is bond. Granted they're shading in millions of places but the purpose of this article is not to blame the governemnt but to show Davis is talking out his @$$ is regards to those ads. He is fooling people into believing something that isn't true about the character of this man. it is there the purpose of this article is met.
Micah Robinson
06-14-2002, 10:23 PM
CTDelude (Sojourner):
Yet were talking about the government here...where (and you cannot mistake this) their word to the people is bond. Granted they're shading in millions of places but the purpose of this article is not to blame the governemnt but to show Davis is talking out his @$$ is regards to those ads. He is fooling people into believing something that isn't true about the character of this man. it is there the purpose of this article is met.Nope. Sorry.
The purpose of the ads is to cite Simon making bad business decisions.
And he made one such bad decision here.
You say that the government's word should be bond, but "the government" is not just some monolithic entity. Officals in one section or branch can make a perfectly legititmate promise they intend to keep, yet the legislative functions of our government can totally invalidate that promise just as legitimately by changing the law that allows the first officials to promise what they promised.
Nonetheless, none of that makes a difference when the person who allowed all of these promises and changes to affect THEIR business is....
THE BUSINESS OWNER (in this case, The Simon Group).
Therefore, there is no deception here. Simon made a bad decision trusting the welfare of the entire firm to people who were to deliver something that they couldn't guarantee or control.
Matt Carroll
06-14-2002, 10:36 PM
Since our Republican governer has no real competition and his victory here in Arkansas is almost assured, all I can do is root for Mr. Simon to get Grey-out Davis out of office.
For you guys working on his campaign....work hard! Help him win.
Micah Robinson
06-14-2002, 11:08 PM
Indeed. Maybe he'll fall for some more empty promises and put California into the red financially even more.
Go Simon!
Burke
06-15-2002, 12:01 AM
All i know is that when Wilson left office California had a huge surplus, and now, after 3 1/2 very long years of Gray Davis, California has a huge deficit. Yes the recession hit us harder than most, but I still feel like Davis fumbled the ball so many times (and his constant, constant fund-raising and self-promotion) have made him an unworkable and hopefully un-electable candidate.
However, this quote keeps getting more timely as the years go by: "If God had meant for us to vote, he would have given us candidates."
CTDeLude
06-15-2002, 01:26 AM
Ultimately Mikah Davis is not to be governor anymore. The guy has not done a thing for our state except spend our money. Hell if you listen to the right sources you would know that in most cases the enviorement is actually not getting worse as everyone would have you to believe.
I don't know if you caught John Stossel's little show tonight on ABC but he made some huge points and some huge holes in the general consensus of reporting out there today. Ex. Global Warming is not an issue. We have gone up 1 degree in over a hundred years. It used to be several degrees hotter then this many centuries ago. BAH! I am sick in tired of being lied to by so many media sources. It makes perfect sense that enviornmental groups would wish for there always to be a problem so that they are enabled to leech you for more money. BAH!
Kronos
06-15-2002, 10:43 AM
If ANY business owner goes in with shady partners and the enterprise falls apart, shouldn't the owner be responsible for making the decision to go in with the shady partners of his free will in the first place?
If a coach takes his team onto the field, then in the middle of the game come to find out that the rules suddenly get changed by the league, do you blame the coach for his team not winning?
Congress changed the law, thereby screwing Simon's S & L, as well as quite a few others. Saying it's bad management is a distortion of the facts, clean and simple.
Bad Government practices? Indeed.
Actually, the Governortron2000 should have been behind a California business that because of a Federal rule change negatively effected tens-maybe-hundreds-of thousands of California residents/homeowners. But Davis' ambitions to be President cloud his ability to be an effective Governor of one of the largest economies on Earth.
Kronos
06-15-2002, 10:53 AM
mikah912:
Indeed. Maybe he'll fall for some more empty promises and put California into the red financially even more.
Go Simon!The promises weren't empty, they were backed by the same Federal Government that you and I both depend on to back the dollar bill in our pockets. If suddenly the dollar was by Congressional decree only worth fifty cents do you think it would have an effect on you?
And would it be your fault if because of such a decree you had to declare bankruptcy?
Kronos
06-15-2002, 11:32 AM
SIMON CRITICIZES DAVIS’ MISMANAGEMENT OF STATE BEACHES
SAN DIEGO – In a press conference at Pacific Beach in San Diego today, gubernatorial candidate Bill Simon criticized Governor Gray Davis for his mismanagement of state beaches and the increase in beach closures and advisories across the state.
According to Natural Resources Defense Council, the number of ocean, bay and great lakes beach closings and advisories increased from at least 3,547 in 1999 to at least 5,780 in the year 2000. Davis is expected to announce in Santa Barbara today the redirection of two-year-old water bond money to the clean up of beaches.
"Last year, Gray Davis called for $100 million in new funds for this purpose, but failed to push for its enactment", said Simon. "Now, he brings out money that has already been approved by the voters and calls it a new program. This is campaign flim-flam."
Additionally, Simon criticized Davis for his budget mismanagement, citing a recent Sacramento Bee article about the cut in lifeguard services at state beaches. As more families head toward the coast and to our state's lakes and rivers, fewer lifeguards could potentially lead to more severe injuries or possibly fatalities.
"A recent newspaper report citing a state estimate said that 1 in 5 seasonal lifeguards would not be in position to rescue swimmers in trouble", said Simon. "It went on to state that there were 7,400 rescues by state lifeguards last season. Using the state's own estimates, that means potentially approximately 1,500 people's lives could be in jeopardy due to the governor's fiscal mismanagement."
For copies of Bill Simon's prepared text, the Sacramento Bee article and the NRDC table please call 916-447-8121.
Oh, and the Governortron2000 just appointed a State Poet Laureate...at a pay rate of ten thousand bucks a year. My taxes pay for an official State Poet. Hmmmm...
Matt Carroll
06-15-2002, 11:43 AM
Sweet! I'll write crappy haikus all day long for an extra 10,000 bucks. Wonder if we need a state poet......
mikah912:
Indeed. Maybe he'll fall for some more empty promises and put California into the red financially even more.
Go Simon!Impossible! Davis can and has done it like no other.
Davis is owned by big banking interests. He sucks them, like a two dollar whore.
He sponsored and pushed a bill this year, AB 227 that would have extended an amnesty for the banks, who had until the end of last year to send the money they had stolen from Californians to the state. THe obtained an amnesty last year, once they had been caught stealing and Davis signed that law. It was in that law that it was unextendable. The money Davis wanted to collect right away, his excuse, would come in until the end of the year anyway and it would have mean about 35 million to the state instead of the billion that is truely owed. Yep, Davis loves those banks. After the deadline for the extention had passed for the banks to send the money to the state and they had not, Davis got a huge donation and realized that the banks should get ANOTHER extention AND NOT have to report how much they were sending (read had stolen) until a year from this July, well after he could be relected.
Last year, after signing a bill that went back and changed a 13 year old law, retroactively (which is illegal) and that law in effect overturned a Supreme Court upheld ruling of an appeals court ruling that would have forced big banks to return millions of dollars to people that the banks had stolen. Nice guy! A month before he signed that Bill into exeistance, he was taken to New York by the very banks who had lost that court case and he received millions in campaign contributions from those banks. See if you can guess whether or not he signed that law? Damned right he did. One of those New York banks is the Bank that bankrolled Enron and stood to make a fortune on the energy crisis. Damned if we didn't have one too. Amazing!
Partisan politics is one thing Mikah, but you are dead wrong on Davis, no matter how slavishly devoted you are to the Democrats in this country.
You are just plain wrong about Davis. The facts are there for those interested and they are leaking out and Davis will probably lose. He is harming California and I'd rather have Devin as gover,,,,,,, Okay well maybe not, but almost.
Example below:
CALIFORNIA
Fix Sought for Property Bill
Assembly: Current version contains a loophole allowing firms to dodge fines for mishandling unclaimed assets of Californians.
By KATHY M. KRISTOF, TIMES STAFF WRITER
For full article go here: <a href="http://www.latimes.com/business/la-000020495mar21.story?coll=la%2Dheadlines%2Dbusines s" target="_blank">http://www.latimes.com/business/la-000020495mar21.story?coll=la%2Dheadlines%2Dbusines s</a>
State lawmakers are scrambling to fix an "amnesty" bill that's on a fast-track through the Assembly, in hopes of plugging a loophole that could let some companies that have been caught violating the state's unclaimed-property laws avoid millions of dollars in fines.
The bill is being touted as a revenue-raising move that will bring roughly $35 million to the cash-strapped state treasury by collecting forgotten refunds, bank deposits and other assets long abandoned by customers of banks and other companies. State law requires these assets to be turned over to the state for safekeeping if they are unclaimed for at least three years.
But officials at the state attorney general's office realized late last week--after the bill had passed the state Senate--that wording in the bill could let companies be absolved of penalties by joining the amnesty program, even if these companies already were being investigated for violating unclaimed property laws. "The intent is not to give companies that we are investigating a free ride," said Hallye Jordan, spokeswoman for the state attorney general. "We will be offering amendments to ensure that the bill's intent is upheld."
Burbank real estate executive Bill Bowen, who is battling the banking industry in court over the issue of unclaimed customer accounts, contends the amnesty bill could become a multimillion-dollar giveaway to banks doing business in California if it's not amended. Bowen's 1999 state court lawsuit alleges that banks owe the state millions in interest and penalties stemming from unclaimed property that hasn't been turned over to the state in accordance with the law.
"This is [supposed to be] an amnesty, not a 'get out of jail free' card," said Bowen, who operates HomeownersRights.com.
The bill was needed because the state's previous unclaimed property amnesty program expired at the end of last year, state officials said. Under that program, companies that hadn't turned over unclaimed property in a timely manner--a practice known as "escheating"--could voluntarily surrender the property without being hit with interest or penalties.
Some companies were unable to participate in last year's program because they were affected by the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, or because they learned about the program too late in the year, according to the Department of Finance. Companies discovered to be holding unclaimed property in violation of state law can be assessed interest of 12% a year on the value of the assets, as well as other penalties.
"It would not be equitable for the state to charge these businesses an interest penalty for property that otherwise would have been remitted under the amnesty program," the Department of Finance wrote in support of the pending amnesty bill.
If the amnesty bill is passed, state officials expect roughly $35million to $40 million in property to be turned over to the state. This property includes abandoned bank accounts, contents of safety deposit boxes, as well as unclaimed tenant deposits, bill overpayments and refunds.
While abandoned property is owned by the people who lost it and not the state, the state is able to use the money until it is claimed by the rightful owners, said Richard Chivaro, general counsel for the state controller's office.
Under the amnesty bill passed by the Senate last week, companies could participate in the amnesty program as long as they weren't subject of an investigation by the state attorney general's office for violating unclaimed property laws or are facing a pending audit or litigation involving the controller's office as of Jan. 1, 2003.
Critics such as Bowen worry that the law could provide unintended protection for companies that were investigated prior to the trigger date in the law. That would include the banks he's suing, jeopardizing a potential windfall for the state.
If his lawsuit is successful, Bowen contends, banks could be required to pay $600 million in interest and penalties to the state. But the state wouldn't be able to collect, Bowen says, unless the amnesty bill now pending in Sacramento is changed.
Several banks contacted declined to comment on the amnesty bill or Bowen's lawsuit.
Lawmakers are now trying to amend the amnesty bill so companies won't be able to escape fines and penalties if they are later found to have violated the state's unclaimed property laws.
"We want to make sure that businesses suspected or convicted of wrongdoing cannot participate in the amnesty program, which is really a gesture of goodwill by the state," said Chris Tapio, legislative director for Assemblyman John Dutra (D-Fremont), who is sponsoring the bill.
"That is what we meant to say all along. Some might argue that the bill already does. But this is to make it crystal clear."
devincf
06-16-2002, 12:39 AM
John Stossel has about as much journalistic integrity as Matt Drudge.
Micah Robinson
06-16-2002, 03:11 AM
Klonos:
If a coach takes his team onto the field, then in the middle of the game come to find out that the rules suddenly get changed by the league, do you blame the coach for his team not winning? </strong>
A more likely analogy would be to say that an owner buys a team simply because he's assured by a certain agent that a star player will come to play for said team. When the star player changes HIS mind and instead decides to retire, the team ends up sucking and they lose millions in ticket sales.
While the agent may have made the promise, it was never his decision to ultimately control. And for the entire team to hinge on that player being available just shows that it wwasn't much of a team in the first place.
BAD BUSINESS.
Congress changed the law, thereby screwing Simon's S & L, as well as quite a few others. Saying it's bad management is a distortion of the facts, clean and simple.
Nope. And I already explained why.
Bad Government practices? Indeed.
Nope, and I already explained why.
Micah Robinson
06-16-2002, 03:21 AM
Klonos:
The promises weren't empty, they were backed by the same Federal Government that you and I both depend on to back the dollar bill in our pockets. If suddenly the dollar was by Congressional decree only worth fifty cents do you think it would have an effect on you?
And would it be your fault if because of such a decree you had to declare bankruptcy?WRONG. WRONG. WRONG.
First off, I read the section at the end where they supposedly got The Supreme Court to back them that this was a legal promise and the government was in the wrong and yadda yadda yadda. Never does it say that the Supreme Court said the that government is liable for damages against this group. they're still determining if they are, and if so, to what degree did they contribute to the demise of the business. Until THAT ruling comes down, this is all conjecture as for "this legal promise that had been broken" being responsible for the situation.
Second, I REPEAT...the federal government is NOT a monolithic entity. Just because federal regulators point you to a loophole in which you can save money doesn't mean that Congress is beholden to see that the loophole stays intact forever. And then to hinge the entire welfare of your business on that law staying intact? Pure foolishness.
As for your example, that makes no sense. If Congress made such a decree, it would hurt America and the world economy at large more than it would personally hurt me. You're comparing a senseless change in the value of currency to the closing of loophole that businesses exploited regularly.
Now, IF ON THE OTHER HAND, you were referring to me trying to exploit, say, bankruptcy laws, and now they've suddenly changed and I can't exploit them to save money anymore...then, Yes....whatever failings I encounter ARE my fault because I put too much stock into a loophole I had no power to control.
Micah Robinson
06-16-2002, 03:32 AM
And it isn't it hilarious that some people here criticize Davis for giving businesses "amnesty""priviliges" and "get out of jail free cards," but yet when Simon effectively does the same by taking advantage of some loophole that allows him to save hundreds of millions when trying to buy cheap a failed disgrace of a debt-ridden financial institution for his own personal gain and Congress stops this, he's the victim and the government are the bad guys?
Talk about partisan politics. One set of rules for one guy and another set of rules for another. What a surprise.
Micah Robinson
06-16-2002, 03:54 AM
Apparently, The Simon Group makes poor choices often when it comes to investments:
<a href="http://www.aidsinfobbs.org/articles/wallstj/95/223" target="_blank">http://www.aidsinfobbs.org/articles/wallstj/95/223</a>
Mr. Simon's entanglement in the recent scam involving the Foundation
for New Era Philanthropy appears to reflect both his growing charitable
inclinations and his unexpected financial sloppiness. Last year, New
Era's mastermind, John G. Bennett, told Mr. Simon that New Era had a
stable of anonymous donors who would match his contributions to
charities -- and thus let Mr. Simon give away twice as much as he
otherwise might. All he had to do was deposit his money with New Era for
six months.
Though a double-your-money offer in which the contributor must turn
over funds has all the earmarks of a common fraud, Mr. Simon wrote out
five checks to New Era, totaling more than $3.2 million, between January
and May of this year. It turned out that the matching donors didn't
exist, and Mr. Simon is currently among hundreds of individuals and
organizations waiting in line in bankruptcy court to get at least some
of their money back.
Mr. Simon participated without personally examining the foundation's
financial records because, he says, he trusted Mr. Bennett, who appeared
to share Mr. Simon's religious convictions and devotion to good works. :rolleyes:
Moreover, several other friends of Mr. Simon in the world of
philanthropy and finance were signing on as well. But for Mr. Simon, the
New Era fiasco wasn't an isolated misjudgment.
Seven years earlier, Mr. Simon had invested $5 million in
Hedged-Investments Associates, a Denver-based fund, even though it never
provided investors with audited financial statements. Like Mr. Bennett,
James C. Donahue, the fund's manager, presented himself as deeply
religious. Although Mr. Simon withdrew his money before the fund
collapsed in 1990 amid allegations that so-called profits were coming
from the contributions of other investors, a bankruptcy trustee is still
trying to get him to return any phony profits he may have derived. (A
lower court has supported Mr. Simon's contention that he owes nothing;
the case is on appeal.) The situation is even more dire at Southern California Federal
Savings & Loan, a $1.7 billion institution also based in Beverly Hills.
SoCal lost $49.1 million last year, according to Office of Thrift
Supervision records. As of the end of March, the federal agency
considered SoCal "critically undercapitalized." In June, Mr. Simon
arranged a $60 million capital infusion, the bulk of it from the Bishop
Estate, a richly endowed Hawaiian trust, says Preston Martin, a Simon
associate who served as SoCal's chairman until he was removed at the
time of the infusion. Mr. Martin says that Bishop has now displaced Mr.
Simon as SoCal's controlling shareholder.
Mr. Simon acknowledges that the thrift investments have been
unsuccessful, but he now dismisses the importance of the companies he
once predicted would grow into a great financial empire, calling them
"those peanut little things." As for the family's losses, Bill Simon Jr.
says, "It's not as bad as it has been reported." In fact, he says, when
all the pluses and minuses are tallied, the family's loss stands at just
$7 million -- "not a lot compared to our portfolio." The elder Mr. Simon blames the losses on federal increases in the
capital requirements of his thrifts in violation, he says, of agreements
he made with the government when he made the acquisitions. (An Office of
Thrift Supervision spokesman declines to comment, citing pending
litigation.) Analysts agree that rule changes were partly responsible
for the state of Mr. Simon's thrifts. [B]But they say that his timing --
considered a strong suit during Mr. Simon's Wesray years -- was also
unfortunate: "Southern California has been disastrous over the past few
years," says Gareth Plank, a San Francisco-based thrift analyst with
Rodman & Renshaw Inc. [B]
Kronos
06-16-2002, 10:53 AM
Never does it say that the Supreme Court said the that government is liable for damages against this group. they're still determining if they are, and if so, to what degree did they contribute to the demise of the business. Until THAT ruling comes down, this is all conjecture as for "this legal promise that had been broken" being responsible for the situation.
Second, I REPEAT...the federal government is NOT a monolithic entity. Just because federal regulators point you to a loophole in which you can save money doesn't mean that Congress is beholden to see that the loophole stays intact forever. And then to hinge the entire welfare of your business on that law staying intact? Pure foolishness.
I think you misunderstand the issue. The issue is not whether the business failed. It is about how Davis is distorting the facts of the case with his campaign ads.
The business failed becasuse suddenly the "monolithic entity" changed the rules mid-game. Simon's company -and that of many others- didn't stand a chance when that occured.
It's as if the Government suddenly determined drywall was not legal to build houses with and made that determination retroactive to June 1990(or something), thereby making your house illegal and you'd have to replace it with insulated concrete.
You'd have had no choice but to fail.
Failing is not a bad thing. For Davis to say Simon failed because "he's a bad manager" is simply idiotic in light of the facts.
I'd say he was a fairly good manager considering he's a self-made multi-millionaire. He's got something on the ball.
Micah Robinson
06-16-2002, 01:14 PM
Klonos:
I think you misunderstand the issue. The issue is not whether the business failed. It is about how Davis is distorting the facts of the case with his campaign ads.
The business failed becasuse suddenly the "monolithic entity" changed the rules mid-game. Simon's company -and that of many others- didn't stand a chance when that occured. </strong>
That's your opinion, K. I think it failed because he pinned the entire hopes of the business on a loophole that never should have been there to begin with. Even the writer of the original article who was defending Simon said the closing of the loophole was a good thing. They were just unhappy with the timing. :rolleyes:
It's as if the Government suddenly determined drywall was not legal to build houses with and made that determination retroactive to June 1990(or something), thereby making your house illegal and you'd have to replace it with insulated concrete.
Again, the analogy doesn't work here. Congress didn't change an essential facet of an important business for no reason whatsoever. They closed a loophole that multimillionaires were using to save themselves hundreds of millions more. The Simon Group, lest you forget, were buying a business THAT HAD ALREADY FAILED, and they hung their hopes of turning it around on ONE LOOPHOLE. Not their business acumen. But rather on being able to take advantage of a ridiculous financial break that never should have been there. If someone went into the bank buying industry WITHOUT relying on getting over cheap on the government, they'd succeed just fine.
Failing is not a bad thing. For Davis to say Simon failed because "he's a bad manager" is simply idiotic in light of the facts.
It is absolutely accurate. Did this rule changing also play a role? Yes. No one is denying that. The "bad management" charge sticks BECAUSE everything was centered around the loophole. They had nothing else to stand on.
Would you respect a business whose entire survival is predicated around ONE tax break that could be changed at any point? Would you invest everything you have in their ventures? I hope not, for your sake.
<strong> I'd say he was a fairly good manager considering he's a self-made multi-millionaire. He's got something on the ball.This is the funniest part yet. I'm sure his father being a multimillionaire investor who involved his son on many of his investment "schemes" had nothing to do with Bill Simon Jr. being a wealthy man. :rolleyes:
I wonder if MIkah thinks there are any rich people who actually earned their people or if he thinks they all either committted crimes, scammed people or inherited it. Not an attack, I just know there are people who feel that way about wealthy people and I am sincerely curious. Care to enlighted, Mikah?
apathybill
06-18-2002, 04:54 AM
I'M curious why he's gettin so steamed, california is far off from Atlanta, GA. I don't claim to have any alligence in the CA gov't. But I'll go on the record saying we have one of the most shitty regimes(sp)in the union.
I recently saw a commercial saying simon was "too conservative" for california. Maybe california needs a good conservative kick in the balls. At least for one term maybe :)
Micah Robinson
06-18-2002, 10:18 AM
apathybill:
I'M curious why he's gettin so steamed, california is far off from Atlanta, GA. I don't claim to have any alligence in the CA gov't. But I'll go on the record saying we have one of the most shitty regimes(sp)in the union.
I recently saw a commercial saying simon was "too conservative" for california. Maybe california needs a good conservative kick in the balls. At least for one term maybe :) First off, I'm far from steamed.
Second, I'm not a fan/advocate of Davis or Simon.
My only point that I've made is that this is not a "distortion" of anything. The fact is that Simon, as an investor, has had a spotty track record (as I've documented above), and that is particularly relevant when it comes to governing a state in fiscal jeopardy.
That's all. I could care less if he's an arch-conservative. That in and of itself is not necessarily a bad thing.
Matt Carroll
07-02-2002, 12:07 PM
I know we don't usually put a lot of faith in polls around here, but this was kinda interesting.
Keep in mind this was a DEMOCRAT poll. Things look kinda grim for Mr. Gray-out Davis
Here's a link to the whole article:
<a href="http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2002/07/01/BA233453.DTL" target="_blank">http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2002/07/01/BA233453.DTL</a>
SLIP SLIDE: Demos up in the Legislature just commissioned a statewide poll on the state of the state -- and it doesn't look pretty.
Results had 57 percent of the voters saying they felt California was on the wrong track.
And they weren't too happy about the state's chief engineer, either -- with 58 percent giving Gov. Gray Davis a thumbs-down for his job performance.
Even worse: When respondents were asked who they would vote for if the election were held today, Davis lagged nine points behind Republican challenger Bill Simon.
The biggest spread we've seen so far.
Burke
07-02-2002, 01:43 PM
For some very well-made campaign ads, click on <a href="http://www.simonforgovernor.com/campaignads.php" target="_blank">Simon's page.</a> The best ones are "receptionist" and "maids." Captures the primal essence of the state's feelings towards Gray. But will it be enough for Simon to win?
Kronos
07-02-2002, 02:00 PM
But will Simon be at CHUDWEST '02?
CTDeLude
07-02-2002, 02:02 PM
All signs point to maybe!
He needs Will's support!
mikah912:
apathybill:
I'M curious why he's gettin so steamed, california is far off from Atlanta, GA. I don't claim to have any alligence in the CA gov't. But I'll go on the record saying we have one of the most shitty regimes(sp)in the union.
I recently saw a commercial saying simon was "too conservative" for california. Maybe california needs a good conservative kick in the balls. At least for one term maybe :) First off, I'm far from steamed.
Second, I'm not a fan/advocate of Davis or Simon.
My only point that I've made is that this is not a "distortion" of anything. The fact is that Simon, as an investor, has had a spotty track record (as I've documented above), and that is particularly relevant when it comes to governing a state in fiscal jeopardy.
That's all. I could care less if he's an arch-conservative. That in and of itself is not necessarily a bad thing.Though we have had MANY differences, I appreciate Mikah's knowledge of California politics. I also agree that be it Simon or Davis we, the people of California, are going to take it in the end. My gripe with Davis is specific to the knowledge I have about his stuffing his political warchest with dollars he sold us out to obtain. I'd like to see this corrupt, in my opinion, politician, hit the showers for the rest of his political life. If Simon does the same sort of number and is bought and owned by the banks, then I say I will be right here bashing him as well.
We don't really need more Democrats or Republicans, we need someone who is at least fairly honest. I am not sure there is a current politician that meets that description.
Kronos
07-02-2002, 03:32 PM
Honest Politician is an oxymoron.
Klonos:
Honest Politician is an oxymoron.Is that another way to say they are all bleached out idiots? I happen to agree with that.
Kronos
07-24-2002, 06:59 PM
Release was bungled, but publicizing returns ended issue, experts say
By Andrew LaMar
CONTRA COSTA TIMES
SACRAMENTO - Republican Bill Simon mishandled the release of his tax returns Monday but likely will be able to put the issue behind him and campaign more aggressively, analysts said Tuesday.
Political experts, both Democrats and Republicans, said they were astonished at how the gubernatorial candidate bungled what should have been a positive story for the campaign: the unearthing of 11 years worth of returns showing Simon has paid plenty of taxes and donated generously to charities.
Citing concerns about privacy, the Simon campaign made copies of the tax documents available to reporters in a small hotel conference room for a few hours. The campaign forbade news organizations from taking the records out of the room, copying them or sending in accountants.
Even though journalists grumbled about the limited access and noted it in their coverage, the Simon campaign has met the minimum threshold of disclosure, said Dan Schnur, a Republican
consultant not affiliated with the campaign.
Schnur worked for former Republican Gov. Pete Wilson and the 2000 presidential campaign of U.S. Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz.
"Releasing these returns gets a giant monkey off Simon's back," Schnur said. "The tax story was a gift to Davis because it allowed him to get off the defensive."
Davis, who made his 2001 returns public in April, has attacked Simon for months for not doing the same.
The issue provided the troubled Democratic incumbent with ammunition during a rocky three months in which he faced a slew of negative press prompted by the state's ballooning deficit and a
scandal over a software contract with the Oracle Corp.
If the Davis campaign continues to criticize Simon on financial disclosure, it won't make much headway, Schnur predicted.
"You're never going to satisfy the Davis people, but most voters are going to think this is just fine. Part of it is this: Arguing about how tax returns were released is much less interesting to voters than arguing about whether they should be released," Schnur said.
Meanwhile, campaign insiders said Simon agreed to make the tax records public at the urging of his top advisers, who saw the matter as a major stumbling block. In addition, Simon found it
frustrating to face the same questions about his tax returns at every campaign event, one source said.
"I rate (Monday) as a very difficult breech birth that turned into a very difficult Caesarean section, but the baby is out," said one campaign official who did not want to be named.
"The bottom line is we lanced the wound, and now it's time to heal and get on with things."
On Tuesday, the Davis campaign blasted Simon for not making his records more accessible.
"This was a cynical attempt by the Simon campaign to create the impression of disclosure when there really was none," said Roger Salazar, a spokesman for the Davis campaign.
Millions of dollars in losses shown on tax returns for recent years, when the economy was booming and Simon reported hefty earnings, raise new questions about the candidate's business
record, Salazar said.
"He's either an incompetent businessman or he is using creative methods to evade taxes," Salazar said. "Either way, Californians have a right to that information so they can judge for themselves."
The records speak for themselves and show that Simon paid his taxes, contributed heavily to charities and ran a successful business, supporters said.
After allowing reporters up to five hours to view the tax returns, there is no need to provide more access, said Mark Miner, a Simon campaign spokesman.
"We believe that we provided enough information and enough time to see Bill Simon has been open and honest with all of his personal information," Miner said.
When asked why the campaign wouldn't give reporters another look, Miner said: "There's only so many ways you can write the same story."
But Democratic strategist Gale Kaufman said the Simon campaign may not be able to shake questions about the candidate's taxes so easily.
"I think it's going to be awhile before he (Simon) puts this behind him, if he puts it behind him at all, because he didn't say 'OK, here they (the records) are,'" Kaufman said. "Once you attract attention on this kind of subject, it doesn't go away unless you come clean."
Kronos
07-25-2002, 02:09 AM
Bill Simon on Davis' attacks of Simon's Charitable Giving...
On a day that I am highlighting the need for more community service, I am appalled that Gray Davis has chosen to go after my family’s charitable giving. These accusations are more misleading and false attacks by Gray Davis and a new low for him.
I am proud of the fact that my family, through the Simon family foundations, has given more than $50 million dollars to charities in California and throughout America. It’s ironic that Gray Davis is using the $50 million he has raised from special interests to attack the $50 million my family has given to worthy causes.
It is sad that Gray Davis has chosen to attack charities that have expanded educational access, brought health care to the poor, helped individuals recovering from drug and alcohol abuse, supported cancer and AIDS research and assisted many in need of a hand up. Which of these causes is Gray Davis against?
This type of attack will have a chilling effect on people getting involved in supporting worthy causes. I am hopeful the voters of California will look beyond Gray Davis’s politics of personal destruction. If I am fortunate enough to become Governor of California, I will work to encourage more charitable giving, not discourage it.
Burke
10-01-2002, 07:59 PM
Post your Bill Simon/Gray Davis/sundry others hate here.
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