Least Favorite Moment: Terminator franchise

[Blofeld]

Hm ... I'm thinking. Hold on here. Hmm. I'll get back to you.

[Poxy Von Sinister]

A lot of Edward Furlong's line deliveries in T2 were downright painful.

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Poxy Von Sinister
"That's the biggest hyperbole in the whole wide world!"

[The Duke]

Whenever Cameron clearly shows the stunt doubles.

[R-LU]

While not part of the theatrical cut of T2, I think the alternate "future A-OK" coda with Hamilton in heavy makeup has maximum cheesiness.

[Blofeld]

This is a paraphrase of a comment I made on some other thread about that, R-LU: "They can make a metal man look real, but can't convincingly make Linda Hamilton look old."

[U2Shark]

Furlong's "puberty" voice in T2.

[Jason Pollock]

Linda Hamilton looks convicingly old RIGHT NOW.

I've got to go put on Black Moon Rising right now-just to remember that she was such a little sexi.

Worst Termi moment:

"An' if ya' wanna' shine somewun onnnn-ya' sayy, 'hastaa la veestaa, bay-beee'."

Who fucking talks like that?

Oh, that's right-FURLONG.

[Darth Bigglesworth]

After they escape from the institution, there's that scene in the car ("What's wrong with your eyes?") that has some of the worst-looking rear projection I've ever seen, and pretty inexcusable in a big budget Hollywood film.

And aside from his Katherine Hepburn-esque voice, I actually think Edward Furlonng was pretty good in the film. However, that "you've gotta listen to the way people talk" scene makes me cringe everytime.

[This message has been edited by Darth Bigglesworth (edited 03-02-2001).]

[captain supermarket]

The terminator learning how to smile in the uncut version of the movie. While it is very funny to see Arnold attempt a smile, it does somewhat kill the entire mood of the movie.

Also, more of Bill Paxton in the first movie would have been great, and same goes for Michael Biehn for the second movie. He gets a lame dream sequence return in the uncut version, which is just an embarassing moment to watch. More scenes taking place in the future would also be cool.

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Josef Stalin, hold on to my armor mu-mu, and we shall leave this planet behind.

[devilf]

When Arnie comes out of the bar and Bad to the Bone comes on.

One of the most hackneyed songs ever used in a gut-wrenchingly cliched way.

[Django]

Worst moment was when they brought back Doc Silverman and not Lance Henricksen as the detective from the first movie. We never saw his ass go down.

As for Furlong, would you believe I actually like most of his other movies other then T2? I really like that crappy Brainscan.

Overall worst? Can I just say the whole of Judgment Day?

[Jason Pollock]

Absolutely-I saw it opening night in the theater and never again-hated it much.

[Axiom]

I imagine, that for me, people hating T2 is the equivalent of critics hating Star Wars when you were kids. I just don't get it.

I saw it when I was 11(I think, my mind is a blank at this hour) so obviously I have a huge amount of nostalgia directed towards it but even today when I watch it with a cynical eye, I still come away thinking it's a great movie.

But I digress.

To me, the worst aspect of the film is Edward Furlong's dialogue. I never talked like that, nobody I knew talked like that and it just grates on me now.

And can anyone explain to me how they would have pulled off the alternate ending? I've only seen it once and it was quite a few years ago so maybe I missed the explanation. How did Sarah and John get off scott free? They destroyed a building and aided a cop killer...How exactly do you get a happy ending?

[Refrozen Seabass]

Only in America, baby!

[Django]

It's easy for guys like HAM and I to hate T2, Axiom. Because like you, we saw the original Terminator around the same age you did.

And unlike T2, T1 had a memorable tragic hero figure in Michael Biehn, Bill Paxton and Brian Thompson as hoods, Lance Henricksen as a cop, Dick Miller sellin' guns, a hot (and naked) Linda Hamilton when she looked like a woman, and a terminator who was a badass who you wouldn't want to fuck with.

Plus how can you forget the greatest line in motion picture history which I will let HAM say again as he does it best...

[Jason Pollock]

"Don't MAKE me bust you UP, MAAAN!"

[Django]

Thank you.

[Axiom]

I'm not disputing that Terminator is a superior film, it is.
That's not my point, I just don't see how you can still hate it.

Using myself as an example, I know some films I hate initially purely because they are not nearly the quality I expected. After time however, I get over it and on repeated viewing, am able to enjoy them e.g.: Austin Powers 2

Some films are so bad, such a slap in the face to a fan, that I never forgive them e.g.: Super Mario Bros.

I honestly do not believe T2 deserves to be lumped into the latter category.

Terminator 2 is to Terminator as Superman 2 is to Superman.
Not the same kind of movie nor as good as the original but still a lot of fun.

[Jason Pollock]

It's a good comparison you make there, the Terminator-T2/Superman-Superman II thing-it's just that you've got it a little off...

Like Superman II, T2 is a film that pisses on the heart and the humanity of the original film and covers for the fact that there is no real drama or emotion by heaping on more effects and fights-creating an experience that may be more slam-bang, but does not stay with you.

I was a kid. It was 1985-and I was filled with AMAZEMENT when I realized that Kyle Reese was John Conner's father. That he traveled through time to see this woman he adored from a PICTURE-and that their love was going to save the world someday.

I was eleven. An overly-sensitive kid with way too much heart who watched every adult relationship around him disintegrate because nobody loved anybody-and Jim Cameron managed to slip a poignant love story into what was supposed to be a FANGO flick. And it was moving. It affected me-and it even influenced me as a writer. Up until that point-everything I'd written had gooey exploding creatures in it-Terminator, believe it or not, forced me to concentrate on humanity in a way that 11 year-olds DON'T.

The Terminator is a classic BECAUSE it trancends its genre and gives something to people to care for and believe in.

T2 has none of this-basically because it was burdened with being something the first film didn't HAVE to be-


A SCHWARZENEGGER flick.

A slick technical exercise with lots of stunts, explosions, and effects...a couple of bad one-liners...and not much else.

T2 becomes MORE of a disappointment BECAUSE I expected more from it than being one of the most technically superior (and expensive) films ever made. I expected it to have heart.

It doesn't-the attempts at making the T-800 "feel" are hackneyed...the notion that "human life is sacred, and we mustn't kill, so let's just cripple them instead" is a fucking JOKE-

I don't mind mindless action-but when that's not what I'm in the theater for-I'm more disapponted than normal.

At least Jim tried to imbue his next Schatzi flick with a little heart...



[This message has been edited by Hot Animal Machine (edited 03-04-2001).]

[Jason Pollock]

Terminator to T2 is like Star Wars to the Star Wars Christmas Special.

It's got some of the same stuff in it, but it doesn't mean much in the end.

[Django]

Actually wouldn't that be Return of the Jedi?

And me thinks that all the heart in it was Gale Anne Hurd's doing.

Think about it. She co-wrote and produced Terminator, Aliens, and The Abyss.

After she split with Cameron, there was T2, True Lies, and Titanic.

And Axiom...

"Don't MAKE us bust you UP, MAAAN!"

[khitcher]

I remember reading an interview with Lance Henriksen (Film Threat I think) where he briefly mentioned his discussion with Jim Cameron before writing T2 and they were toying with the idea of bringing him back in a wheelchair and "pissed as hell".

He ended the interview with "I should've done it".

[Axiom]

Django, point taken, but HAM says it better.
It was a good try though.

And Lance was right, he should have.

[Django]

Kid, nobody does it better then HAM...

[Vitruvian Man]

Would comparing to Terminator/Terminator 2 to The Killer/Hard Boiled be apt?

I think it would, but I'm still gonna think about it some more.

[Jason Pollock]

No-they're not sequels, and at no point would you confuse the characters Yun-fat plays with each other. They are very different humans, and Yun-fat plays them as such.

But if you are speaking to the notion that The Killer (like The Terminator) has a heart and soul and substance that Hard-Boiled (and T2) lacks-than you are definitely heads-up...

I enjoy Hard-Boiled as a slick, exciting action flick-but The Killer is a way of life...a code of conduct...as close as we'll get to a "religious experience."

[Vitruvian Man]

Yeah, you got me on the second one.

Not a complete comparison because they aren't sequels, but two films that were similiar in terms of the people who were involved and plot-and that the chronologically prior film shot much higher in terms of theme than the succeeding one.

[generalzod]

He should have used "A Better Tomorrow" and "ABT2". Another case were the sequel was nowhere near as good as the original.

[Jason Pollock]

I know a lot (and I mean A LOT) of HK fans that would disagree with you, Zod.

Matter of fact-I'd go so far as to say that yours is the minority view.

Lot o' fans would say that ABTII is more melodramatically maudlin (and as such, is a logical progression in Woo's thinking), than it's predecessor, and for most people interested in his work it is the heart on his sleeve that is the attraction.

What some people see as dignity in ABT, those who follow the career of the man understand as imposed restraint.

And what some see as excess in ABTII-is for the most part viewed as bravura-and his coming-out party as a stylist.

And in his very next film as a director (disregarding his partial handling of the Danny Lee Sau-yin vehicle Just Heroes), he melded his visual sense and his flair for the melodramatic (and in the whole of Asia-melodrama is still considered an acceptable genre-which is of the reasons Woo is so attractive to cineastes)-and created a classic called The Killer.

Thing is, in ABTII-the heart is still intact-more so even then the first film-every action in the film is a selfless one, every death is a sacrifice for a friend-as well as being a tragedy...

[Rewired Seabass]

I agree with Zod (!)

I haven't seen ABT, but the posts of late made me curious as to ABTII, so I checked it out.

Zod's review is...overly kind. The Killer turned my crank, Hard Boiled changed my life. ABTII...well, I liked the orange-cam. I don't see the appeal.



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[generalzod]

First off, thanks Seabass.
I'm sure it is, HAM, but I can only speak for myself. I don't disagree with the films mood, just the way it was played out. Maudlin is fine, just make it believeable.
Among other things, the entire business with Shek going nuts was handled rather clumsily and I didn't buy a minute of it IMHO.
My review reflects my thoughts so I won't bore anyone by repeating myself. The movie just did not work for me.



[This message has been edited by generalzod (edited 03-07-2001).]

[billylove]

Terminator FUCKING kicked ass!

Besides, I was about the same age as Edward in the movie and thought that robbing ATMs and ridding a dirt bike to the mall was the best.

Come on people, it was the best movie I had seen when I was that old.

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