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- THE DEVIN'S ADVOCATE: IT'S OK TO THINK ABOUT MOVIES
THE DEVIN'S ADVOCATE: IT'S OK TO THINK ABOUT MOVIES
- By Devin Faraci
- Published 12/22/2009
- News

"You're overthinking it."
This is the rallying cry of morons across the internet. Of the mouth breathing folks who cringe at the idea of analysis that goes deeper than 'It rocked!' or 'It sucked!' For some reason they've come out in droves to decry thinking about Avatar, a movie that wears its 'subtext' on its sleeve and all but begs to be deconstructed, but they come out for pretty much every big movie. For these people movies are a narcotic, which I guess is fine - not everybody appreciates film as art the way we do - but they seem to be completely threatened that anyone would bother to take the time to think about (or, heaven forbid, think during) a movie.
Someone has actually summed all of this up much better than I can. I rarely - if ever - do this, but I'm reprinting a comment left on a recent io9 article that I think says just about everything that needs to be said on the subject. Thanks to Roger Ebert's Twitter for pointing me to a blog called Racialicious that initially pulled the comment out of the morass. The article at io9 was Annalee Newitz' absolutely excellent examination of white man's guilt/subconscious racism in Avatar; that kind of article will always get the most 'You're overthinking it' responses because not only is it about a blockbuster, it's about race in a blockbuster. The 'overthinkers' really hate it when people consider race, gender or class when discussing a film, and they'll bend over backwards to ignore any racism or sexism in a movie.
One thing this commenter didn't touch on: analyzing a movie is fun. I really have fun doing it. I like talking with friends about the meanings of things in films, books and other art. It's like a puzzle, and it's intriguing to work a movie over in my mind and ferret out the small bits that - consciously or unconsciously - the author left in there. It's fun to analyze works in the context of the time when they are created as well as in the context of the present moment; art is timeless and can say things about the world we live in even if it was created decades or centuries ago. I know it sounds crazy, but it's actually fun for me to use my brain.
Anyway, here's commenter Moff laying it all down for you:
Of all the varieties of irritating comment out there, the absolute most annoying has to be “Why can’t you just watch the movie for what it is??? Why can’t you just enjoy it? Why do you have to analyze it???”
If you have posted such a comment, or if you are about to post such a comment, here or anywhere else, let me just advise you: Shut up. Shut the fuck up. Shut your goddamn fucking mouth. SHUT. UP.
First of all, when we analyze art, when we look for deeper meaning in it, we are enjoying it for what it is. Because that is one of the things about art, be it highbrow, lowbrow, mainstream, or avant-garde: Some sort of thought went into its making — even if the thought was, “I’m going to do this as thoughtlessly as possible”! — and as a result, some sort of thought can be gotten from its reception. That is why, among other things, artists (including, for instance, James Cameron) really like to talk about their work.
Now, that doesn’t mean you have to think about a work of art. I don’t know anyone who thinks every work they encounter ought to only be enjoyed through conscious, active analysis — or if I do, they’re pretty annoying themselves. And I know many people who prefer not to think about much of what they consume, and with them I have no argument. I also have no argument with people who disagree with another person’s thoughts about a work of art. That should go without saying. Finally, this should also go without saying, but since it apparently doesn’t: Believe me, the person who is annoying you so much by thinking about the art? They have already considered your revolutionary “just enjoy it” strategy, because it is not actually revolutionary at all. It is the default state for most of humanity.
So when you go out of your way to suggest that people should be thinking less — that not using one’s capacity for reason is an admirable position to take, and one that should be actively advocated — you are not saying anything particularly intelligent. And unless you live on a parallel version of Earth where too many people are thinking too deeply and critically about the world around them and what’s going on in their own heads, you’re not helping anything; on the contrary, you’re acting as an advocate for entropy.
And most annoyingly of all, you’re contributing to the fucking conversation yourselves when you make your stupid, stupid comments. You are basically saying, “I think people shouldn’t think so much and share their thoughts, that’s my thought that I have to share.” If you really think people should just enjoy the movie without thinking about it, then why the fuck did you (1) click on the post in the first place, and (2) bother to leave a comment? If it bugs you so much, GO WATCH A GODDAMN FUNNY CAT VIDEO.
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Comments
Comment #1 (Posted by TheColonel)
Jesus. Just let it go, Devin. Preaching to the choir, man.
Comment #2 (Posted by Lucas)
Great article. I'm in complete agreement here.
As any artist would tell you, they put so much thought, effort, and intended meaning into their work –even unconsciously, as you pointed out– that to suggest that their works be viewed with brains turned off is an insult.
Comment #3 (Posted by IndustryKiller!)
Very nice Devin, I've been rattling this sabre for years now. i'm one of the people who outright couldn't stand the idiotic mess that was Avatar (and guess what apologists, Cameron is NEVER going to be the same) and I'll be saying it till Im blue in the face.
Comment #4 (Posted by Matt)
I agree with TheColonel. Please stop already.
Comment #5 (Posted by putch)
You're absolutely right. And regardless of whether you hated Avatar or thought it was brilliant it's completely fair and expected to analyze it and film in general.
However, when you throw out crass statements like "[f]or these people movies are a narcotic, which I guess is fine - not everybody appreciates film as art the way we do..." you're just being mean for the sake of being mean. It's not a way to persuade people.
Ad hominem attacks (you're effectively calling them junkies) like this are designed to either make you feel better yourself and/or just instigate a flame war. Since you're quoting a entire comment from another site I'll just assume it's the latter.
Comment #6 (Posted by Eric Pfeiffer)
Devin, as someone who writes and thinks about politics for a living, I find your straw man argument lacking. Apparently, your notion of a thoughtful push back is a blog post comment with all caps, flawed grammar and repeated instructions to "shut the fuck up!" There are plenty of us who disagree with the "Avatar as white guilt and/or racist fantasy" theory. That doesn't mean we don't think about art, politics or story context. It might just mean some of us have considered the evidence and reached a different conclusion. Telling someone to "shut the fuck up" because they've reached a different informed conclusion is the very same kind of infantile reaction you are supposedly rallying against. Personally, I can't disagree with the fact that much of Avatar's story is a re-hash of other narratives. However, the reason I enjoy the film is the way in which that somewhat familiar story is told, ala Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, The Matrix, etc. I also can't help but notice that these cries of racism primarily stem from, well, white people. Show me the racial and culture minorities who are crying foul at this film and your argument will have more weight.
Comment #7 (Posted by theabiminabledrvibes)
I understand people passionately defending film when it has been wrongly maligned by someone with motives beyond the film's critique, but why the fuck are people getting up in arms over a mixed review that gives competent reasoning for it's conclusions?
If a dissenting opinion lessons your enjoyment of art than you are pretty fucking shallow and probably too stupid to safely expose yourself to film critique. Avoid it.
Some of these Avatards are sounding more ridiculous than the Twihards.
Comment #8 (Posted by rudewordsmtih)
Moff is absolutely correct with his mini-thesis. Ashamedly, the film school I attended amassed a lot of people who had the defensive "just turn your brain off" mentality toward most movies. There seems to be this stigma against analysis of media/art, and it scares me to know that people who want to work in the film industry hold such views. Film is, of course, entertainment -- but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be mulled over or dissected. As you pointed out, Devin, one of the most entertaining aspects of watching a movie is discussing it with your friends (or whomever) after the credits roll. If I were James Cameron, I'd be very distraught in knowing that my "fans" just want to watch my movie and think nothing else of it afterwards. Any artist creates a work for the express purpose of having it viewed, thought about, and talked about. For audience members to simply take it as a way to waste time... it's fucking sad, and a major slap in the face to every filmmaker who busted their asses to put it out there in the first place.
Comment #9 (Posted by Gwai Lo)
Another straw man argument. Surely it doesn't apply to you when YOU enjoy fun fluff without much critical thought. Instead of playing Don Quixote to the windmills of this idiotic readership you imagine, how about answering this question? How can you claim to review a film with objective distance, when you have editorialized on why it bothers you (or excites you, in the case of Kick-Ass for instance) for months or years before seeing it? If your answer to this is "reviews are subjective, you moron", then my follow up question is this: how can you balk at your readers questioning your credibility? You are entitled to your opinion, but aren't your readers in turn entitled to believe that your opinion became worthless after the tenth editorial on why the blue-cat-people design will never catch on with the public, or why we shouldn't go see The Dark Knight more than once in the theater? Clearly you enjoyed Sherlock Holmes without any spikes in brain activity, and guess what, the unwashed masses did that with Avatar. Now please stop throwing temper tantrums about this, they're sullying the site.
Comment #10 (Posted by Devin)
Eric - did you read the article? Honest question. The issue isn't about agreeing/disagreeing with Newitz' point, it's about people who are annoyed that she had a point in the first place. Ideas can be disagreed with, but the 'overthinkers' are saying people shouldn't have ideas.
Comment #11 (Posted by Warduke)
Apparently Eric Pfeiffer doesn't know how to read, since he sees Devin's article as an attack against people who don't like Avatar, instead of comprehending that it's an attack on all the people who've ever said "Just turn off your brain, man!" when talking about Jar-Jar Binks. I hope Eric is a Republican!
Comment #12 (Posted by Liquid)
Idiotic mess? *face palm* We'll agree to disagree. Idiotic mess was Transformers, not avatar. Get some perspective you guys. I've seen worse movies and still thought they were cool to watch. This beast is like a fancy smancy version of flash gordon like star wars was, and because it didn't change the world people are piling on it. Leave Avatar ALONE!
Comment #13 (Posted by Sean B)
Bottom-line: nobody likes to be told they’re stupid for enjoying something. Essays like Newitz’s force people who watched and liked Avatar to confront the possibility that they just “didn’t get” the underlying issues. That’s why the better reasoned and more convincing your argument is, the more angry they get. They are responding not to your analysis, but rather to the feeling of embarrassment that creeps up on them that they enjoyed something that “intelligent” people couldn’t bring themselves to enjoy because it was too “stupid,” “simplistic,” or “cliché.” Truth is, essays like that aren’t meant to target anyone, but that’s precisely how many readers feel when they read them. They feel like they’re being told that they shouldn’t enjoy the movie because if they do, they’re just plain stupid. And how do these people respond? They respond with “I’m not stupid; I just know how to have a good time, man!”
Comment #14 (Posted by bob hope)
Transformers may have been an idiotic mess but it was a fun idiotic mess. I'll reserve my opinion on Avatar for when I actually watch it.
By the way. What is up with the mass removal of comments?
Comment #15 (Posted by Just Wandering The Internet)
I hope Avatar makes 10 billion dollars so the world can sulk and kick the can for the next millennium.
Comment #16 (Posted by Doug )
The beauty of entertainment is we can appreciate (or criticize) it on many levels? Only like to go to the movies for pure entertainment? Awesome: don't read film criticism. Like to watch movies as art? Awesome: don't expect substance in Transformers or GI Joe.
I agree that a movie that has been uber hyped by it's creator as "game changing" (I was at Comic-Con when Cameron spent a lot of time talking about how much his film will change how cinema is made/watched forever more) opens itself up to criticism.
Comment #17 (Posted by Gamerdad37)
This is why I rarely scroll down into the comments section and won't get on the message boards. Any small effort at reason in any given situation online is completely ripped apart and scorned. Why I'm even posting this defies my own logic but sometimes the annoyance and anger in me gets to a certain point and needs to be released. I do not always agree with Devin, hell sometimes I feel he's downright jaded. That being said I always like reading his material. There is a passion there and he's made me look at things that I would have never previously considered in a different way. I have never needed his or anyone else's justification to like something I have seen. It doesn't make me feel better to know that I liked a film that he (or other reviewers) have enjoyed, or worse when they haven't. I either like it or I don't. What I do enjoy is looking at other people's viewpoints-regardless if I agree with them or not. Sometimes it helps me find something in what I have seen that I may not have considered or thought about differently. I have never understood the reaction of people have to reviews, it makes no sense to me. I just don't know how you do this day to day Devin. I don't know if I could take this rampant stupidity on a daily basis. Keep writing, at least I'll keep reading. I'll go back to my quiet corner now...
Comment #18 (Posted by Ronnie)
Right on, Doug.
Most of us don't approach every movie as an arthouse film. We go just to be entertained. Opinions vary. Personally i find the writer of this opinion to be a bit off his mark, but again that is MY opinion.
Also: I noticed that too Bob hope, soem of the more negative comments seem to disappear. I guess Devin can't take a little criticism here on his little piece of the web.
Comment #19 (Posted by Atahuallpa)
I think you get the most outcry of "You're overthinking it!" when your analysis points towards racial issues. And it's no mystery why. People are uncomfortable with the topic. They don't want to hear that movie they like may be "racist." Although I thought the original article at io9 was pretty good. I don't think the point was to call Cameron a racist, or by implication, the movie's fans. But compare the common thread seen here to so many other movies - across genres even - like Under Fire or The Last King of Scotland, and many many others - where there is a need to create a white surrogate for the audience to relate to. And ultimately, as the protagonist, that white surrogate is the "hero" who leads or saves everyone else, or is the only one redeemed. It's just questioning this sort of "ambient" politics in media. But bringing up the subject can cause some people indigestion. There's a very simple fix though: let more minorities make $500 million sci-fi epics ! (You can sign me up now).
Comment #20 (Posted by /facepalm)
For Devin priding himself on being so aware, it really is exhausting to see example of example of him simply not realizing that the high level of criticism he's been receiving has nothing directly to do with Avatar.
Comment #21 (Posted by an unknown user)
Seriously, get over yourself.
You just gushed over Kick-Ass where you want your synopsis to be "Holy fucking shit" yet you are talking about people who want to be entertained over driven to contemplate every in and out are stupid and wrong. Your Kick-Ass review basically was a really long, overly redundant "Holy Fucking Shit It's COOL", and now since you decide to analyze every detail of Avatar and, more to the point, you have decided anybody who just wants to enjoy Avatar for the bells and whistles, is wrong for doing so?
That post within this post is just the opposite stance of the fanatic, easily entertained fanyboy who believes his/her opinion is better because it is long.
By the way, I haven't seen Avatar so you may be (probably are) right in its lack of story, but saying people can't enjoy a movie for what it is makes you really a hypocrite.
Comment #22 (Posted by NYK Dave)
Devin, it's not that you dislike a movie or over analize it... it more has to do with some of the pomposity and "elite geek" status you seem to press upon yourself. I like your reviews for the most part, whether I agree with them or not. I DONT like a lot of the self serving pieces you've been putting in reviews or articles like this. I think YOU missed the point of others criticism.
Comment #23 (Posted by ha ha)
"I don’t know anyone who thinks every work they encounter ought to only be enjoyed through conscious, active analysis — or if I do, they’re pretty annoying themselves".... She called Devin annoying... ha! .....................................In reality though, the fact that you posted this just shows how far you are going to try and justify your negative stance on a movie you secretly like quite a bit. Here's a news flash, EVERY MOVIE HAS ALREADY BEEN MADE, there are just variations on a theme. So, when you curse Avatar for being like Dances With Wolves(which is an awesome fucking movie and it has the Oscars to prove it), you might as well shit on Kick-Ass for being about Superheros cause we've seen that movie before too and if you want to talk about lame character design, look at the stuped outfits in that movie. Wake the fuck up... and just admit that you actually like Avatar. ha! You don't have the balls...
Comment #24 (Posted by Matt C)
I think Devin's absolutely correct. Most people who 'overthink' just don't want to admit how much Avatar licks thy nut. Opinions are opinions, I guess, but some peoples' opinion definitely holds more weight than other peoples', IMO. Man, that's a lot of opinions.
Comment #25 (Posted by dammit)
I like funny cat videos! And I like thinking about movies often to a ridiculous level of detail.
Just figured someone needed to stand up for the kitties. It's not like they're Michael Bay, for crying out loud.
Comment #26 (Posted by brundlefly)
Great post. Amen, Devin.
By the way, I'm a bit sorry to see the comments back. I hate to see such moronic crap posted to an intelligent film site.
(FWIW, I agree with your opinions about Avatar, although I think I enjoyed it a bit more than you did, and I think the people who have trashed you for it are a bunch of juvenile twats who can't deal with someone disagreeing with them. However, bringing it up again and again doesn't do yourself any favors. Take a cue from scientists who refuse to debate Creationists. Don't elevate their ad hom bullshit.)
Comment #27 (Posted by ECM)
Devin, do you think there is any logical coherence in declaring a movie a 'guilty pleasure', or is it the mark of a chilld-like individual who refuses to let go of the 'buzz' that shit movies gave them when they were 9? I quite enjoyed Terminator Salvation, being fully aware that it had it's flaws; to my mind the only truly outstanding Terminator was the first one, and even the second had it's awful moments and Cameronesque issues shoved in our faces (fractured families making good etc). Does the fact that I had low expectations, and thought 'phew- that wasn't as bad as it could have been', somehow mark me as part of the unwitting cattle that contributes to the 'bubblegum for the eyes' approach of tentpole movies? Do you not think that, as a critic, it is possible to overthink your emotional gut reactions, or try and justify why you like one geek fanboy movie, while disliking another? (Reason is the slave of the passions, as Hume said, or something to that effect.) If I were to hold my hands up and say 'yknow, I quite enjoyed (say) Revenge of the Fallen on a visceral level', but still hold a conversation about Goddard or italian neo-realism (which I can't, but for argument's sake) then am I a hypocrite?
Comment #28 (Posted by johnny red.)
no. You shut up!
intellectual discussion american style.
Comment #29 (Posted by an unknown user)
yeah dev, agree with a lot of these posts...you can't deride others for enjoying the " mindless coolness" of avatar when the only reason you liked Kick-Ass was "it was fucking awesome and insane"...cant have cake and eat it too
Comment #30 (Posted by Frogger)
Two atoms bump into each other. One says 'I think I lost an electron!' The other asks, 'Are you sure?', to which the first replies, 'I'm positive.'
Comment #31 (Posted by Devin Faraci)
Last comment on this:
I don't care if you enjoy movies in a mindless way. If you read the article, you would see that. It's actually IN PRINT above.
But if you want to enjoy movies in a mindless way DO NOT GET PISSY AT OTHERS FOR TRYING TO ENJOY THEM INTELLECTUALLY. That's it. If you don't want intellectual movie discussion SIMPLY AVOID IT.
No one is making you read this article, or Annalee Newitz' article. You can skip them. If you think we're overthinking things, simply stop reading and go about your day. How is it hurting you if some people enjoy thinking about movies?
If you don't like thinking about movies, that's fine. Just keep it to yourself and go about with your life.
Comment #32 (Posted by Moff)
@Devin, #31: Exactly. To which I would only add: Don't just not get pissy -- don't be disdainful or dismissive in any fashion about people engaging intellectually with art. Be disdainful or dismissive or even about whatever critique they come up with, if you must; but don't deride the act of criticism itself.
(And yes, people, that should be obvious, but the number of comments out there doing just that indicate that it's not.)
Comment #33 (Posted by TimBob55)
No actually, you don't say it's okay to just enjoy movies for what they are.
Comment #34 (Posted by Captain Obvious)
No one is making you write these articles either so don't get all pissy about us reading them and commenting on them... You are poking the fire and getting burned by it. I think what irks people is that you claim to be, at times, the exact type of person that you are deriding with this article. It's called hypocrisy... I really think if you could admit you were wrong about something, it would go miles to getting people back on your side.... and saying you liked the Star Trek movie, a franchise you already loved, after not liking a few photos is not the same thing... not even the same ballpark. Man up and admit you have a bias and it clouded your judgement on some movies, either that or jump in the fire and fucking burn, cause it's will only get hotter.
Comment #35 (Posted by herewegoagain)
So, is this to say that we should prepare ourselves for some intellectual discussions when KICKASS comes out? Why doesn't this train of thinking apply to something like the upcoming Mark Millar adaptation. Obviously, the movie is suppose to be mindless fun, right? But why is it okay to preceive certain movies in this fashion and not others? Who said AVATAR (or example, just an example) was suppose to be anything other than pulp fun? And yet, you constantly complain about how your superior to everyone else because you want your films to be of the intellectual variety. There is nothing wrong with that, but then you go and praise a film, like KICKASS because it looks like fun and we both know that's all it's suppose to be. Cameron has said his film was nothing but pulpy fun, so why look for anything else, and why begrudge it because it doesn't have what you were looking for? My point being, and im not trying to be a dick, I respect your opinion and I read your articles because (for the most part) they're worth reading, is why are you demanding for something in certain films when you know they're not made for that particular aesthetic. It's like if I hate KICKASS (or whatever) because it didn't challenge my intellectual sensibilites, knowing full well it wasn't made for intellectual purposes. Hating The HANGOVER because there wasn't enough drama. that's just stupid. My final question: why is it okay for you to have fun at the movies and some of us can't? YOU put yourself out there, and like the films you watch, open yourself up for critizism. There is no need to because irate with your readers; just be happy you have them. And if YOU don't like to be critisized, then dont WRITE AN ARTICLE IN A PUBLIC FORUM. Again, with all due respect. P.S. this has nothing to do with AVATAR, but everything to do with certain stances you take.
Comment #36 (Posted by Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz)
Borrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrring! I guess you've got nothing better to write about right now, huh?
Comment #37 (Posted by Shark Week)
Alright, so I used to have this roommate a year or so back with whom I'd have this very discussion with over and over. I'd point out something I had enjoyed or been disappointed in regarding the direction, the music, the dialogue, the character development, (or lack thereof) or whatever and he would inevitably and reliably counter with the exact argument Devin here mentions. "Why can't you just watch the movie?" I find it comforting to see I'm not all that alone in my finding it just plain fun to muse and wonder about all the more subtle aspects of movies. Seriously, my old roomy really almost had me thinking that, perhaps, I wasn't watching films "properly".
I'd add something about how I felt about the article itself but, honestly, Gamerdad37, of comment #17, has already voiced {far more eloquently than I'd ever manage I might add} my exact thoughts on the matter.
Frogger, I'm gonna use that every chance I get!
Comment #38 (Posted by Mr Rekshun)
I think the guy who wrote the linked article hit the nail on the head. I also loved Avatar. I think there are 4 basic types of films - those that appeal to the heart; those that appeal to the intellect; those that appeal to neither and; those that appeal to both both. Where any film falls on that spectrum is mostly subjective. Star Trek and Avatar are both films that hit me at an emotional level, without ever really firing the intellect - and I'm cool with that, because IMO emotional engagement is every bit as important as intellectual. The problem seems to come more from the fact that people (especially on the web) seem to need their opinions validated with conformity. I like it when someone disagrees with me on a film - because arguing about a film has more excitement than just joining a chorus of assent. I would also like to point out a flip side to the argument presented: I've been called "stupid" for allowing Avatar to engage me on an emotional level, despite its familiar and simple story. Fuck those people too! Fuck them in the ear. Art is a completely subjective experience - for anyone to demand assent on ANY work of art is an act of supreme douchebaggery. Although, I suppose that'd mean we have to lay off the Twi-hards, because of the inherent hypocrisy. Damn... I think my head is about to explode.
Comment #39 (Posted by funboy)
I read this whole pile just to see if Devin answered #9. He didn't. Instead he answered people who didn't get the point of the article. Why not take the time and answer someone with a genuine question? How can you claim to objectivly review a film when you have been editorializing on it's possible lameness for months before hand? And why would you think your credibility wouldn't get questioned after your review was tepid? I completely agree with most of your review, but I also read the bile you spit at the movie for months before hand. If you are a subjective critic don't you want to experiance a full movie the way it was intended as opposed to sniping for months after a couple minutes of footage? Prejudging a film before you see it is like deciding a paintings quality after looking at one preliminary sketch. Seems rash for a critic of one particular medium to not actually experience a finished version before the review, which you gave months ago. It might not have been word for word but the bullett points are the same.
Comment #40 (Posted by Philip K. Schtick)
What is this...Aviator you speak of?
Comment #41 (Posted by Solartaco)
DEVIN...I watched Avatar. I enjoyed it. I also understand that it was just a FUCKING MOVIE. Sometimes people like things that you might disagree with, and it is OK. I think you need to walk away from your keyboard for a few months and really THINK about what is important in life.
Comment #42 (Posted by an unknown user)
Whooooo fucking cares?!
Comment #43 (Posted by Dan)
reading these comments is so hilarious - so many people simply don't get the point at all
Comment #44 (Posted by Nightz)
This has nothing to do with Avatar anymore, and anyone who has been reading your articles Devin knows this.
You hated the movie before it came out nobody can question that, you wrote your review, but can we please move on?
And everyone should learn something from this unless you are dead set on starting a flame war over the srs internet bzzniz. Dont flame a movie before you have watched it, be professional and neutral, watch it and review it and then BE DONE WITH IT!
No more articles, pointless crap that is polluting this once proud site that had decent opinions and a quirky humor. Now its a hub of "how many people can we piss off and how many times :D"
Just stop it allready, i know you will do the DVD review of Avatar and bash it some more, fine.
I am so close to deleting this site from my bookmark page. No that is not a threat, its just a very sad and spitefull place to visit, same reason i quit AICN.
Comment #45 (Posted by braak)
Oh, man, guys. Moff isn't saying that a person is an idiot for enjoying a movie without thinking about it. He's saying that a person is an idiot for enjoying a movie without thinking about it, then going on to the internet to respond to someone who DID think about it, and telling them not to.
There's no compromise to be reached here, where people who like art and movies and analysis have to give something up. They aren't doing anything <i>wrong</i>. They haven't failed the movie in some way.
In fact, I guess there kind of is a double-standard, though. "Enjoying the movie for just being stupid" and "thinking about the themes of the movie" are polar opposites--they are a spectrum that goes from Zero ("no thought") to...well, to any number you want. That's why it'd be acceptable to respond to a review that says "This was fun but I didn't think about it" with "Hey, did you notice the racial subtext?" and it's NOT acceptable to respond to "Here's the racial subtext of the film" with "stop thinking so much!"
It is never bad to think more about something. THAT is the thing that Moff is criticising--the demand that people start thinking less about things, not the actual act of enjoyment itself.
Comment #46 (Posted by Argaroth666)
I´m sorry, "absolutely excellent examination" ? I don´t think so.
Annalee Newitz writes:
"Avatar is a fantasy about ceasing to be white, giving up the old human meatsack to join the blue people, but never losing white privilege. Jake never really knows what it's like to be a Na'vi because he always has the option to switch back into human mode. Interestingly, Wikus in District 9 learns a very different lesson. He's becoming alien and he can't go back."
So did she really paid attention to the movie or simply ignored an important element that would make this assessment completely void ? Because, if I recall correctly, Jake at the end of the movie exchanges his human body for his Na´vi avatar, fully embracing his assimilation. And "never losing white privilege" ? WTF ? It´s perfectly clear that were it not for eating (you know, to keep himself alive), Jake would never leave his avatar body.
I´m sorry, but that´s one really bad "examination", clearly omiting plot points to make a statement. You americans can´t deal with race, no matter what.
Comment #47 (Posted by Jesus)
I sort of agree with the "dont overthink it" but thats just ME and I dont think there's anything wrong with any film goer, especially a critic like Devin having problems with Avatars derivative and predictable plot techniques but THE MOVIE HAD TO BE LIKE THAT. Avatar couldn't afford to be no country for men, it had to appeal to the masses, would everyone prefer it if avatar was some original masterpiece beloved by critics but boring and confounding to the masses? Would everyone be happier if the movie was a giant bomb that ended Cameron's career and convinced the industry to move further into the land of remakes sequels and more twilight movies?
Comment #48 (Posted by Avaturrrrrrr)
"Everyone, look at me, look at the controversial things I'm saying! Oh noes! People paid too much attention and now there's backlash! Better beat this dead horse into the ground, quick! First, I'll write a follow-up article that justifies my review, even though that's not really what anyone's complaining about, nor did anyone ask for it. If that doesn't work, I'll find some completely unrelated article on another site, and use someone's response to that article to defend my review, even though - again - that's not the issue at hand. If that doesn't work, maybe I'll use freedom of speech, or possibly compare myself to the civil rights movement." Complete insanity. And yet, here we all are, driving more and more ad impressions with every inflammatory article. High fives all around.
Comment #49 (Posted by TheColonel)
"Interestingly, Wikus in District 9 learns a very different lesson. He's becoming alien and he can't go back. He has no other choice but to live in the slums and eat catfood. And guess what? He really hates it. He helps his alien buddy to escape Earth solely because he's hoping the guy will come back in a few years with a "cure" for his alienness. When whites fantasize about becoming other races, it's only fun if they can blithely ignore the fundamental experience of being an oppressed racial group. Which is that you are oppressed, and nobody will let you be a leader of anything." This whole point is fucked. Wikus doesn't like it as he's becoming an alien, but who's to say he doesn't like it when he's fully become an alien, with a biological makeup that is predisposed to liking cat food. In fact, it's clear that his humanism survives the ordeal, compounding his misery. He still wants to be cured, and even if he is cured and then decides to help the prawns because of his experience and newfound empathy, then he'd be just another white protagonist who bails out the minorities, according to this "examination." Further undercutting this argument is the fact that white protagonists in other "going tribal" stories also learn the harsh lessons of being part of the minority. Isn't Dunbar forced to flee at the end of Dances with Wolves, hunted because he became part of the tribe even though he leaves it? Isn't Hawkeye always fighting and experiencing bloodshed and pain in Last of the Mohicans? Even Sully (hmmm ...) in fucking Dr. Quinn: Medicine Woman was always in some sort of awful predicament because of his allegiance to the Indians?
Comment #50 (Posted by jason)
Movies have been and probably always will be evaluated by academics in the context of the larger culture. The internet has blurred the line between cultural criticism and the kind of pop culture promotional press that genre fans enjoy. It makes them mad. The same way it makes rednecks mad when they think of elite chardannay-sipping liberals.
Racism is real (although ironically, race is a social construct) and so is colonialism. You can live your whole life in America without ever having to think about race and colonialism. You can even sit through a movie about race and colonialism without ever thinking about it.
Comment #51 (Posted by Sleestak Labia)
Maybe this site's name should be changed to Thin Skin Babies. And, yes, I do understand the point of the article and agree with it. However, it's really time you let the whole Avatar thing go. Whether you are wrong or right, biased or sincere, you're looking really silly at this point.
Comment #52 (Posted by TheColonel)
Sorry, that should read: "who's to say he doesn't like cat food when he's fully become an alien, with a biological makeup that is predisposed to liking cat food, even if humanity remains in him?"
Comment #53 (Posted by Rindain)
David Poland has a great rebuttal to the people who are critical of avatar because the "white an leads natives" over at The Hot Blog.
Comment #54 (Posted by No, Sleestak, I think...)
...this site should be renamed AHUD: Avatar Happenings Under Development.
Comment #55 (Posted by Mike T)
Yes, Poland's rebuttal is quite good. I also think comment #6 by Eric Pfeiffer was excellent, although the main problem with Faraci's piece, imo, is his assumption that charges of "overthinking" equate to declarations against thinking at all. It's possible to both enjoy thinking about Avatar and think someone else is overthinking it. I mean, I recently came across an interpretation that Avatar is pro-Iraq War, that the tree represents 9/11 and the Na'vi were akin to Bush fighting against Saddam. I'd certainly say that guy is overthinking it, and that doesn't suddenly mean I don't want myself or anyone else thinking about Avatar's.
Comment #56 (Posted by ennui)
Oh Devin, my Che of the internets! You are so bold, brilliant and sexy when you stand against public opinion. Whether you are calling Dark Knight fans fascists, or Avatar fans racist, it is so refreshing and original. You are like an internet musician, just keep at it with your 3 chords and the truth!
Comment #57 (Posted by Tundro the Tremendous)
I thought KickAss looked like tasteless, quasi-pornographic hipster trash.
I am a moron.
Comment #58 (Posted by Mark)
You know, it's kind of irrational to make implicit suggestions that people who enjoy a particular movie are racist and then be shocked when they get really upset about it. Just saying.
Comment #59 (Posted by Devin's Wanted Review)
"Wanted, quite simply, kicks ass. It's not a film filled with deep thoughts and important thematic messages, but that doesn't mean you should turn off your brain while watching it. Instead, keep your brain kicked into high gear so that you can truly appreciate the levels of absurdity and impossibility this film reaches... There's not a moment in this film that feels realistic, and I love it for that reason."
Comment #60 (Posted by Hipocrocy)
Thank you #59. I think that makes a good point. I loved Wanted.
#48. That is exactly what is going on. Nice post.
Comment #61 (Posted by asdf)
Oh for god's sake Devin is talking about himself and Avatar again.
Comment #62 (Posted by Three Oranges)
I'm pretty sure that Devin has never used freddom of speech as an argument for immunizing himself against backlash. If he had, I'd've lost all respect for him and interest in him as a character on the Internet.
Comment #63 (Posted by Amy)
I don't think i can stand to read one more of Devin's pseudo-intellectually ego driven articles. I'm done with this site.
Comment #64 (Posted by ZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz)
Every time I swear off Devin's nonsensical bullshit, I find myself reading yet another one. Boooooorrrrrrrrringggggggggggg.
Comment #65 (Posted by Scott)
Newsflash: Just because someone doesn't feel the desire to overanalyze a film like you do, that doesn't mean that person is any less smarter / better than you are, it just means they don't give a shit enough to think that deep about something, not that they can't do it if they want to.
Comment #66 (Posted by WhyAreYouLotEvenHere?)
People who love genre movies and think about them = Geeks. People who love genre movies and don't like to think about them = Fanboys. There's a bit of crossover, but generally Chud is more a Geek site while AICN is the flagship Fanboy site. I wonder why all you fanboy types are even over here when AICN has you sorted for un-qualified celebration of fanboy properties? Even if Devin loved Avatar, he'd love it for different reasons to you, simply because he's more serious about his love of cinema and geek culture. Some of you even seem to think he's making up reasons for his dissatisfaction with Avatar. You people not only don't think about movies, you don't understand them. You're a bum in a seat and a gut full of popcorn and soda, nothing more.
Comment #67 (Posted by AnalEyes)
@#65: Do you understand anything? He's a film commentator. It's his fucking job to analyze movies. Over-Analyze? There's a whole cinematic language being spoken right in front of your snout everytime you go to the movies. If you can't see that, then you ARE less smarter. If you don't give a shit to learn, then you ARE less better. WHY ARE YOU HERE? Explain yourself!
Comment #68 (Posted by fuckyourself#66)
A lot of the backlash ol' mighty douche is getting isn't because of his review of AVATAR; it's his hypocritical reasoning and contradictions on HOW the movie was reviewed. He constantly insults people who disagree with HIM, yet he's giving us shit for calling him out on it. He says "oh, it's okay to love this movie because it's fun and it's intended to be that way." but he blasts this movie for that same fucking reason. Who the fuck said AVATAR was suppose to be something other than a throwback to old pulp sci fi of the 50's?That's what it was intended to be, so why is it getting hammered for it? I just don't get it. Then, he starts pissing and moaning when people call him out on it. Sure, there are some shitheads who are just being malicious, but what about the 80% of the others who are trying to debate with him reasonably? Film IS subjective, am i correct? Am i to believe that critisizim isn't? Again, it has nothing to do with him not liking the movie, but when he starts his holier than thou spiel, getting on the rest of us for digging it, then THATS when people get all up in arms. By the way, that bearded mother fucker knows what he's doing. YOu think he doesn't? He LOVES to rile the shit out of the internet community. Fucking dick.
Comment #69 (Posted by Hannibal)
@#55 Mike T: Eric missed the point but your stance that it's possible to simultaneously think about a film and to see others as overthinking it was well said. But Devin and Moff seem specifically to be targetting the "no thinking at all please" brigade, the ones who only ask movies provide them with a theme park ride and cry when others address the movie as something more than that. ===== @#9 & #39, Gwai Lo and Funboy, re: Devin hated the movie before it came out and therefore has no cred. --- When a writer on a site called Cinematic Happenings UNDER DEVELOPMENT judges the pre-release media of a film, that's normal. That's supposed to happen. If pre-release media like photos, trailers and posters weren't meant to be judged then the film companies wouldn't put them out. They want them to be judged and hope they judged positively, but if they are judged negatively by some then so be it, that's just how it works. The fact that Devin had stated his non-excitment over most of the pre-release media for Avatar was completely in keeping with a) his being a film writer, and b) his being a human being. To suggest that a film news writer, whose JOB IS TO EDITORIALIZE, should remain completely neutral is utterly absurd, and not only that, the fact that he entered the cinema that day with subdued expectations actually gave the film a better chance of surpassing those expectations so that he enjoyed it. That's how expectations work.
Comment #70 (Posted by Radb)
Man, I thought this was going to be about people calling you an idiot just because you have a differing opinion on a movie or because you ask questions and want to have a discussion about it. That's stuff is way more retarded than someone saying "Stop analyzing it" because they're tired of hearing how racist Ghostbusters is.
Comment #71 (Posted by tourist)
The scary thing is, people like Harry Knowles and 4chan ARE analyzing and thinking about Avatar, and are getting their brains fried by how "Deep" it is for them.
I'm not hearing from people that they felt Avatar was a "turn your brain off and enjoy it" kinda flick, but that they think the story is incredibly thought compelling.
Which speaks to a higher level of moronic than what Devin's even talking about.
Also, just to stick it to Devin, how much analysis did you put into G.I. Joe?
Good article regardless.
Comment #72 (Posted by Frankie)
It would be fine if Devin really does advocate what is written in the article. In reality, he is a hypocrite. Here's proof:
http://chud.com/forum/showthread.php?t=118560
The link is a thread on Chud about this guy named Ambler who queries about events and circumstances in the Movie, The Thing. He has some issues with the plot.
Quite a number of people respond to his query. Post number 28 is Devin's sarcastic response and this what he says: "This animal is so beautiful. Let's rip it to pieces to see what's inside."
Basically saying The Thing is great movie and there's no point in over-analyzing it to see what makes it tick. Completely against the grain in what's he's saying here.
Oh yeah. This wasn't some post so long ago where he can and should be excused. This was in September the 16th 2009. Only a few months ago. Go check the thread out. A hypocrite and a liar.
Comment #73 (Posted by fatkimono)
Again Devin, it's fine to think about films, even Avatar. It's just that you infer it's not art because it doesn't have a deeper meaning or characters that are fleshed out enough for you. I don't know how much of an Ingmar Bergman fan you are, but for all the depth of his screenplays, only Seventh Seal, Cries and Whispers and Fanny och Alexander are visually awesome. Some of his filmography (haven't seen all forty-something) is pretty basic, static framing with sometimes crude lighting. However, the rest is also art (for those of us who love Bergman's writing). It's like this: art can be driven visually or thematically, on a minimalist or grandiose scale (occasionally both: Lawrence of Arabia, Sunset Blvd to name but two). An “ugly” film like Stolen Kisses is art. An "empty" film, like Blade Runner, is art (I know, you're going to deny this but the first time you watched it, you didn't give a shit about the thin plot and the cryptic dialogues: hell, even the best lines were improvised by Rutger Hauer). So, Avatar is no masterpiece in terms of the depth or the originality of its themes. It is, however, an awesome narrative and a complete visual feast. Just stop limiting art to what you like and stop thinking you have a monopoly on cinematic depth or aesthetics. Harry Potter, last I checked, is no War and Peace (and its designs and FX are butt-ugly and pedestrian to boot). As much as I appreciate your input, you should just drop this film which we had understood you didn't enjoy, despite our unfathomable imbecility. As far as that annoying, pedantic shit you've quoted, while I appreciate condescension as much as the next guy, he or she can go fuck him(her)self for thinking he has omnipotence or telepathy. That's one deluded person who thinks she can step out of her subjectivity.
Comment #74 (Posted by Rewiz)
'It's not the tale, it's in the telling'
In my opinion, that old adage above is were the real problem with AVATAR lies. I didn't like the film very much, but not because I wanted more out of it intellectually... but because it was TOLD in an extremely trite and hackneyed manner.
I don't mind a movie not being "deep" - hell, one of my favorite films this year, STAR TREK, made no fucking sense if you really thought about it, plotwise. But it didn't matter: the movie zipped along and 'felt' clever, because it was so very well TOLD.
The reason I think AVATAR isn't very good, especially in comparison to Cameron's other films, is because the tale is told in a dull, predictable manner. TERMINATOR, T2, ALIENS, TITANIC: none of these stories are particularly original (TERMINATOR was cobbled together from various sources, including of course Harlan Ellison's work) but they are so amazingly well TOLD that it doesn't matter.
So I think the discussion shouldn't be: why isn't AVATAR giving us more intellectually (Cameron never did before), but why wasn't the story better told?
(yes, I know I'm kinda disregarding what this article is about, but the reason I'm disappointed with the film stems from what I've described above, not its lack of meaning. For the record, I don't think there's much there... like any other Cameron film. He's ALWAYS made trivial films that were enhanced by the telling. That's where AVATAR is lacking, IMHO)
Comment #75 (Posted by TheWarfreak)
You guys are really looking at this article too deeply. Can't you just accept it for what it is - an article?!
Comment #76 (Posted by an unknown user)
Devin,
I made post 21. If that is your point, then you are correct. When you like a movie, I don't think you are wrong for whatever reason it may be.
I misunderstood what your intent was. After reading your few posts on Avatar, I took this new post as the continual bashing a movie (and any movie) that is simply for enjoyment.
Anybody who can't listen to opposing idea really shouldn't even join the conversation, but it goes both ways.
Everybody was bashing a movie that some people liked--and they realized it's story was lacking--but they liked it for what it is; hence their argument is I like it for what it is.
I personally love the debate of the value of movies, but I can't just flat out say somebody is wrong because they just like it. It just a stimulus like any other where my reaction will be different than yours.
Keep writing and I will keep reading (while agreeing or disagreeing).
Comment #77 (Posted by DoGooder)
Devin once stated Final Dentination 4 "looks fucking awesome"
Devin gave GI Joe : Rise of Cobra a 8 out of 10
Comment #78 (Posted by Michael)
Devin: There are some of us out here in the world who have real jobs. You know, the ones where you have to get up at 5 am, fight traffic and work under deadlines and/or harsh conditions for 10 hours a day, deal with office politics and the boss, deal with rent, morgages, car repairs, kids school issues and try and make life workable with the wife/husband and deal with health issues, fear of losing our jobs, healthcare, and an insane list of other things on a daily basis. Maybe, by the time we get to the theater on a Friday night, we want to be entertained for a couple of hours. We CAN engage films on a intellectual level and we do engage them like that on occasion, but sometimes we don't want to have to work out what the director was saying about American race issues with native amaericans. I think James Camereon knows this and therefore he makes a film like Avatar that has those things layered in, but is also just a pure, joyous, amazing spectacle to see on the giant screen in 3D. Just because some of us choose to just enjoy a film sometimes on a level that doesn't include heavy mental thought, DOES NOT mean that we are mouth breathing "Eloi" that drool into their popcorn as we giggle at the pretty pictures on the Moovee wall. I love to dissect art and music and comedy, but some times it feel like both you and Jeff Wells both tend to think that the world entire revolves around film and art. I think that is a byproduct of it being what pays your bills, but your views on the average man and woman out here in real world (ie: NOT LA or NY) is narrowminded, baised and, dare I say it? Yes I do.....Racist. I know Nick is from Atlanta and that will be brought up as proof that you all don't feel that way, but sorry, that doesn't cut it. There is a tidal wave of bile and hate being spewed out of places like this about the "herds" the "eloi" the "hayseeds" and the like. It's like you secretly think that only people who live on the coasts and work in the industry, or at the outter edges of it, on the web, have the where-with-all and the mental acuity to actually "understand" and "get" the hidden meaning in films. I call bullshit on that and I say that if you want to call Avatar a racist film, then you need to look in the mirror and take a hard look at yourself. If you think people in the fly-over states and the south are a little dumber than people who live in LA or NY, than you are a racist too. I loved Avatar. I know the story has been told before but it has never been told better. And you know what? I don't care that it cost 400 million dollars to make. You know why? because it cost me the same $10.00 to see it that it did to see Paranormal Activity, and that garbage was made for a hundred thousand dollars. As long as I don't have to pay more to see Avatar, why the hell should I care? If people don't like Avatar, fine, that's cool. To each his own, but if you claim you don't like it because it's not deep enough or that the story is a retread of something else that was a retread of something else, then go and fuck yourself. Every story has been told already. The story in the dark knight had been told aready too, but everyone (myself included) loved that movie. This summer there will be another version of Robin Hood, in two days there will be another Sherlock Holmes, Star wars was a retelling of a centuries old story. If you want to go down deep into the levels of subtext on a film, that's fine, I do it too sometimes, but if your whole argument is that you didn't like the film because you thought about it as art and looked at the subtext and found it wanting, and the only reason anyone could enjoy the film is because we DON'T do that, then fuck you.
Comment #79 (Posted by Rhinohyde)
You write the article, then put a picture telling us to "Get a Brain Morons" (Yes, I understand that you did not write the slogan, nor is it you in the photo), then chastise those people who take issue with it. Good lord Devin, you have been railing against this movie for months and months. No matter how cleverly you may think you worded your articles or reviews, you cannot blame people for getting the distinct impression that you hated this movie going into it. So what happened? The movie came out and was loved by a lot of people (not everyone obviously). You now found yourself in the position of being the loudest critic of a movie that did not live up to your apocalyptic prophecy on how much of a train-wreck it would be. So you put out a middle of the road review and then try and claim that you never thought the movie was ever all that bad.
I will be the first to admit, I got a little overwhelmed by all of Cameron's claims of how this movie was going to "change the way we watch movies FOREVER....", and no matter how great the special effects are (and they are fantastic), nothing is going to make me forget that the 8ft tall blue alien is not a real person, but after seeing it, I have to admit that I really enjoyed it. It was thrilling, sad, fun, all of the 31 flavors of emotion. Then I left the theater, thought about it, still liked it and then got on with my life. I understand that being a critic puts you in a unique position where analyzing a movie becomes second nature. But for the most part, people go to the movies to see a story told about something that interests us. Because they choose not to write a thesis on it does not make them a moron.
You're a smart guy Devin, and you have an impressive amount of film history and knowledge locked in that brain of yours, but when you start calling people morons, or telling them to "shut the fuck up" (I know you did not write that article, but you are reprinting it in yours) you are alienating a large portion of your audience who just enjoy coming to the site to get the latest news and updates about the movies we want to see. Thanks for CHUD, but I am getting sick and tired of being called a "Fucking Moron" for not going to the movies with my laptop and taking notes on all the wonderful subtext on screen.
Comment #80 (Posted by wolflikeme)
Commenting on this article has already made me a part of the problem. My head just blew up.
Comment #81 (Posted by Lameturd)
Devin Loves Friday the 13th....explain that. Oh wait, you must have some sort of deep reason why, you couldn't possibly just like the movie for it being pure goofy fun right? NOOOOOOO.
PS. It's ok Devin, I LOVE the friday the 13th series, but I guess thtat is due to me being retarded.
Comment #82 (Posted by Michael)
I can't turn by brain off to enjoy a movie, because my brain is where I have fun. I pay no more credence to a piece of writing titled When will white people stop making movies like Avatar?, than I would a piece of writing titled When will black people stop making demeaning rap videos? I can enjoy a worthless article like the aforementioned for it's shallow labeling and self righteous stupidity on a comedic level. I see a commercial for a movie where Michelle Rodriguez is flying a helico;pter and saying you should see your faces, where the lead characters name is Jake Sully and say ha ha nice fucking try I am not seeing your movie. I also know nerds can't stand anyone saying something bad about something they love. I understand that if I wrote on the internet something negative about TDK or Avatar or Iron Man or Star Trek, nerds will get mad and write negative things about my views and me. Why don't you understand that Devin? For you it would be a rather prevalent occupational hazard I would imagine.
Comment #83 (Posted by Michael is a Fucking Loser)
Hahaha! Now I know why they're called Avatards!
Comment #84 (Posted by mlambro)
I agree with the article, but let's be honest, the "don't hate me because I'm an intellect" front is just as pretentious and obnoxious as the "it's just a popcorn" movie defense. You're smarter than the comment section Devin. Just don't read it. Let the narcissistic rage sway whatever way it needs, but remember, it's mostly the developmentally arrested crying, "LOOK AT ME!" (You're welcome for the all caps.)
Comment #85 (Posted by What The Fuck, Seriously.)
Reading comprehension FAIL for two thirds of the people commenting on this article. Christ, what fool resurrected the talkbacks?
Comment #86 (Posted by Seriously, Fuck You)
What fool posts in the talkbacks to complain about them? This is what people are thinking when they read Devin's articles. Maybe you lap up every word, but the talkbacks are great because not everyone agrees with every word Devin writes. I think he is good writer, but he definitely deserves some shit for continuing on with this nose-in-the-air crap.
Comment #87 (Posted by The Seventh Guest)
Is it time to shut down the comments again? I don't like to be confronted with so many warped opinions. But still i read and cringe. Please, protect me!
Comment #88 (Posted by Lady GaGa's Pantyhose)
I think the amount of analysis and dissecting is the result of the hype surrounding "Avatar". The media and the Avatards have hyped this movie to be revolutionary and possibly the film of the decade. Those are very bold claims and some people took offense to them. When you try to shove a movie down a person' throat, expect them to get defensive.
Comment #89 (Posted by Matt C)
How many people in this talkback get paid to review movies?
Oh, right...
Comment #90 (Posted by Dr. Gonzo)
Seriously - this debate is going nowhere
Comment #91 (Posted by 8 Man)
The same dumb people who enjoyed Transformers 2, LOVED Avatar. ADHD mouth breathing jocks who think empty spectacle has bearing for debate on movie websites. Sure it's ok for you to like shitty movie just don't go to movie sites and complain.
Comment #92 (Posted by unKnown)
@Matt C of course if you get paid to review movies that makes your opinion better than others. Two words for you, toolbag: Ben Lyons.
Comment #93 (Posted by gil mann)
#75 almost justifies the decision to turn comments back on. Almost.
<EM>You americans can´t deal with race, no matter what.</EM>
True, and yet we're better at dealing with it than anyone on the fucking planet. We may be loudmouthed warmongering imbeciles, but we're a goddamned <EM>rainbow</EM> of loudmouthed warmongering imbeciles.
Comment #94 (Posted by Matt Granados)
I refer to Devin's Iron Man review:
"There's been some talk about the bad guys in Iron Man, and I feel like I should weigh in. To some people this (a terrorist group known as the Ten Rings) is another example of Evil Brown People - a cheap Hollywood shorthand for villains. To me it's just logical. "
Evil White People With a Guilt Complex = moronic. Evil Brown People Who Mindlessly Destroy and Murder = logical.
You claim the "overthinkers" bend over backwards to ignore any racism in a movie. Here, Devin, you flat out excuse it.
Comment #95 (Posted by ballsy)
i like how all the nerds start throwin around 'fuck you' on a movie blog.. like its their chance to be tough.. anyways.. Avatar is a champion of the base-level plot action movie, its not the movie for intellectual discussion.. therefore when the movie markets itself as a revolution in cinema, you'd better believe fans of movies are going to crash that notion.. and fans of explosions are going to be confused at people who think movies can be artwork.. mystery solved..(the cold war of nerd rage marches on)
Comment #96 (Posted by Haunt)
#94 (Matt Granados)... much word, sir!
Comment #97 (Posted by crushwb)
I saw Avatar tonight ...and have cringed knowing it would be like "Emerald Forest" or "Dances with Wolves"...yes its plot seems like OEM parts taken off the hollywood shelf...but oh my James Cameron built a hot rod with those stock parts and took it around the track for some wicked stunts !
I have to side with Nick on the review of Avatar , it had a simple plot we have seen before but its all about execution and Avatar was well crafted and enjoyable film. The CGI is the next level as far as I;m concerned ;I couldnt help but think if only latest Star Wars films had an ounce of the life these CGI characters have.
Another poster mentioned that Avatar appeals on an emotional level and thats very much true.Its a simple movie ....but its not dumb.
Comment #98 (Posted by sultan)
Jeez! Can you possibly sound anymore condescending to people that liked Avatar? I find your attitude over this movie to be somewhat obsessional? Did Cameron do something bad to you Devin? Let it go.
Comment #99 (Posted by Alfred)
I don't know why you guys brought the comment section back. Nothing but shit talk from a bunch of hate-mongers. These people are the same people who tell other people they're overthinking things. I for one like your Avatar posts. The reason I like this site is because you do analyze stuff, even if it is a glorified cartoon.
Comment #100 (Posted by badlvillemojo)
Your both talentless hacks who wouldn't know a good movie if it bit you in the ass. As for thinking, well it's something you shouldn't do anymore. Your not good at it.

