THE BATTLE OF AVATAR'S BUDGET
- By Devin Faraci
- Published 11/9/2009
- News
David Poland is pissed about Michael Cieply's story in the New York Times about the budget of James Cameron's Avatar. See, Cieply reports that the film cost about 500 million dollars when production and marketing are added in, a number I actually agree with. But Poland finds the claims spurious and then nitpicks Cieply's entire article, which is a touch confused, and which is really about how Fox is sort of protected from taking a bath on this movie when it doesn't make a billion dollars, which it will need to clear to be profitable.
This just underlines a running battle over the budget of this film; in the modern world nobody tells you what their movie actually cost. Paramount lied about Paranormal Activity's low budget - the 11 grand figure they touted didn't include the reshoots, re-edits and special effects that were added, to say nothing of the marketing - and now Fox is lying about Avatar's budget. The film is being estimated at 230 million dollars, semi-officially, and anyone with a working knowledge of recent blockbuster budgets and James Cameron's budget history must know this is a bullshit number.
Let's put it this way: Pirates of the Caribbean 3 cost 300 million dollars. Spider-Man 3 cost 258, although I understand the budget to be closer to 300, if not over it. Yeah, these are sequels, which are susceptible to cost overruns as everybody's salaries climb, and Pirates has a couple of big money actors hogging up cash, but the reality is that these films, these FX-heavy blockbusters, are unconscionably expensive. The idea that the guy who has spent his career making ludicrously expensive films has suddenly reigned in his habits is silly, especially when it comes to the budget of a film designed to be a game changer and to forever alter the way we watch movies.
I've heard from numerous sources, many of them incredibly in the know, that Avatar's negative cost - the cost of making the movie itself - is about 400 million dollars. People underestimate how unbelievably expensive it is to make a movie where there are no sets or props but rather teams of well-paid computer guys working around the clock to push the boundaries of what was deemed possible in computer animation. Your cost really blows up when you hit the final crunch, when you're hiring a zillion extra people to work around the clock because you have a deadline to meet and your current rate of work will not meet it. I've talked to people involved in the production of Avatar who were saying some folks were skeptical the picture would hit its date way back in February. Being that far behind that far out means lots of spending in the end game to catch up, especially if you want to catch up with quality.
The 400 million number doesn't include marketing, which is going to be monstrous for this film - well over 100 million in marketing, easily - or the R&D that went into creating the tech that was used on the set. Cieply mentions that Cameron and others went out of pocket on this stuff, and I've heard that up to 100 million dollars was spent on getting the 3D and the motion capture process - the one that gives a live feed of roughly rendered work as the actors do their thing - up to snuff. That seems to make basic sense.
Anyone with a knowledge of Hollywood history will know how much has changed over the decades. Once upon a time Fox would have been trumpeting the film's cost - big costs and big casts of extras were once selling points to audiences craving lavish spectacle. Today, with investors and board members to make happy, studios downplay the costs of films to make theatrical profitability look more likely. Of course almost every Hollywood film becomes profitable at some point thanks to ancillaries and TV rights and home video and partnerships and etc, but this is a town as much about image as numbers, and the image of doing well in theatrical, which is the bragging rights portion of the release schedule, is very important.
I don't know as much about the business side of things as Dave Poland, but I look at Avatar and see a movie that cannot possibly be expected to make its money back. If Cieply is right Fox has prepared for that eventuality and this won't be the next Heaven's Gate (or even the next The Golden Compass), but there will still be people in the funding chain getting hosed in a big way. Does that matter when it comes to the movie? Not particularly, but it does matter when it comes to movies getting made in the future. If Avatar is blowing through the cost envelope and it's doing so using the once-touted-as-a-money-saver mocap technique, I think we're looking at a blockbuster landscape that's only going to keep getting more boring, more safe and more barren of interesting ideas.
I really feel that filmmakers who want to work on big canvasses have a responsibility to figure out a way to make that kind of filmmaking affordable. There's no shame in wanting to make - or wanting to watch - big, sweeping fantastical movies. But if the cost of these films becomes such that they cannot make their money back except by being as mainstream and four quadrant oriented as possible, we're going to see blockbusters that make Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen look like The Seven Samurai. It isn't the taste of the audience that's killing the movies, it's the budgets that make it so the movies have to appeal to the lowest common denominator. That's the only reason the budget of Avatar matters.
Debate it while wearing skin tight mocap suits on our message board.
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Comments
Comment #1 (Posted by RNB)
'There's no shame in wanting to make... big, sweeping fantastical movies.' The problem here is that 'Avatar' is not really 'sweeping' or 'fantastical,' just big. And expensive. The plot is hackneyed; it was a worn-out theme in science fiction thirty years ago. The characters come off as 'Dances with Wolves in Outer Space.' Without 3-D, the CGI looks like 'Return of Final Fantasy.' James Cameron stopped making interesting spectacles a long time ago. But he sure can spend money!
Comment #2 (Posted by Jason)
When I heard the "plot" of this piece of shit I was instantly turned off. "Mean humans try to kill peacfull loving aliens" I saw this movie already 20 times. I read this shitty "aliens look just like us only blue and sort of elfish" space opera 100 times. Nothing new here, and those effects look nothing like promised they are not ground breaking, they suck. This flick opens huge around 50 mil. then it drops out REALLY fast as word of mouth kills it, it ends up making 165 million dollars
Comment #3 (Posted by AreaMan)
I don't begrudge Mr. Cameron trying to make bags of money or for trying to make a visually and professionally groundbreaking movie. There is no doubt that on a technical and artistic basis this movie will be stunning.
The problem is the story (or world view) that kills it. Intellectually it doesn't have to be cotton candy but this is a raised middle finger to the military and a not so thinly veiled F-U to America. It has already been said, Dances with Wolves in space, mean ol' humans versus the noble savage.
Visually brilliant, intellectually...a highly polished turd.
Comment #4 (Posted by JamesCameronBlogspot)
"See, Cieply reports that the film cost about 500 million dollars when production and marketing are added in, a number I actually agree with."
You "agree" with something? This is a matter of material fact. Your opinion is totally irrelevant.
The NYT article conceded that the production budget wasn't even at $300m cause they said that Cameron's deferred salary hasn't kicked in. So there goes your "$400 million!" theory. Gone.
"But Poland finds the claims spurious and then nitpicks Cieply's entire article, which is a touch confused, and which is really about how Fox is sort of protected from taking a bath on this movie when it doesn't make a billion dollars, which it will need to clear to be profitable."
You said that that blogger nitpicked? No....that dude can just perform basic math, which the NYT and obviously you cannot. Did you even READ either article?
The talk of $500m is the most flagrantly bogus bunch of idiocy I've ever seen. Only moron Americans are so hilariously mathematically incompetent that they can endless regurgitate it without any foundation whatsoever.
Comment #5 (Posted by Vayde)
Yeah right and my reliable sources say that 500mil budget is a flat lie. Now whose sources are better Devin? :)
Anyway I enjoyed seeing how you bark at Avatar yet again. Clearly you are sad miserable person.
Comment #6 (Posted by lorry)
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Comment #7 (Posted by Hippies suck )
I love reading posts from angry, slathering European morons who cant wait to show how jealous they are of Americans.... Look at this cock smoking faggot JamesCameronBlogspot homo. He has it bad for Cameron's cock. Avatar wasn't worth half of the estimated $500m.
Comment #8 (Posted by YK)
i disagree with the comment bloggers on top of mine text, the movie was spectacullar and is to be decided by the public, not by analytics of filmmakers who envy cameron for making a extraordinary movie, that tops on transformers 2 and 2010, this is how movies should be made, almost 3 hours with constant tention. and a plot that follows trough, without an stupid sudden ending... thumbs up for avatar! it got me on the first go, and will gladly buy it when it hits the stores. now hate on me!
Comment #9 (Posted by jgonzo23)
Why do people criticize be4 seeing something. Is that whats wrong with the world today saying be4 viewing. How are any of us 2 know what this film is worth 2... it may be just another over paid over acted movie. But to another it may be a world away from worlds. I think we should all screen the movie and then and only then should we express are feelings toward it... We should only do so with no preconceived notices or bias
Comment #10 (Posted by lala)
Even if this movie has restated themes from scifi films and books from thirty years ago, the movie was beautifully done. So what if it's a reoccurring theme! People have forgotten this theme I think and I'm glad it is brought up every now and again. This movie made statements through and through... and it was gripping. wow. I think the general public could use a message that we need to appreciate nature, not follow the money, etc. etc. Plus, this is so much better than remakes or novels being put into films that can barely scrape the details of a story. All you haters, see it before you comment!
Comment #11 (Posted by cloger)
Bunch of haters man, jesus. Just go see the movie and then decide if you like it or not. Does it really matter how big the budget is? It could be a goddamn billion man, so what? If the company wants to dedicate that much cash into a movie, why not. Unless they take that money from your bank account, sit tight and enjoy the show (or not) - just like any other movie.
Comment #12 (Posted by jond)
i think this probabbly one of the best movies i have seen for some while now....i havent seen any movie like it before the plot maybe but the special effects make the movie.... ill pay the 15 dollars to watch this movie again in 3D ....to the nay sayers- jealousy sucks and i dont think anyone but james cameron could have pulled this off..
Comment #13 (Posted by Samsonator)
I watched Avatar on IMAX 3D and I'm happy to say that this amazing film is now my favorite movie in history. For the first time, it felt as if I was flying with the characters, as if I was truly there in the jungles of Pandora, like I was underwater when the camera dived underwater. The story is a combination of various stories that James Cameron has done before and from many other sources, which works out well with the story he wishes to tell. But in the case of Avatar, the story is just the framework. It's the journey that Mr. Cameron takes us as the audience with Jake as he experiences this adventure through Pandora and the Na'vi people, that makes this a wonderful film. To truly enjoy this film, one needs to let go of reality, forget about the film budget, forget that the film was made by James Cameron for a moment, forget about the fact that the film is more than 60% CGI, forget all those things...and just watch, listen, and just have a good time.
Comment #14 (Posted by Mark Zamcheck)
Well, it is January 2nd, 2010, and Avatar is well-positioned to break the one billion world-wide gross within the next week...
I'm going back for my forth viewing at a local Imax with 15 others...
How could ANY even fractionally competent reviewer miss the fact that that Avatar is clearly a revolutionary game changer in the fundamental way in which we define and assess film genre...
Wow. must be nice to have a job which has no clear rubric to assess competence... what a pathetic review.
Comment #15 (Posted by Charl)
This is the first time I've ever been on this site. I don't know if it's an established "movie information site" or just another wannabe movie analyst site...But I have to say, the article is one of the worst, most one-sided points of view I've read...Which means you must be a wannabe.
This article doesn't take into account any historical evidence, or even a viewing of the movie for that matter. It looks at one thing...The budget, before the movie is released.
James Cameron's track record speaks for itself. Terminator 2 made 6.44 times its opening weekend. True Lies made 5.65 times opening weekend. Aliens made 8.5 times its opening weekend. Even Terminator made 9.6 times...And, of course, Titanic made 21 times its opening weekend.
What do all of these movies have in common? Word of mouth...Oh, and the fact that James Cameron knows what the masses like.
You question the budget...True, I still question the budget. But your "sources" say $400 million and "well over 100 million in marketing, easily". So, you're saying this movie cost "well over $500 million?"
Who are your sources? Are they people that work for other movie companies and they want to spread negativity about Avatar before it comes out in theaters?
You say: "I look at Avatar and see a movie that cannot possibly be expected to make its money back. If Cieply is right Fox has prepared for that eventuality and this won't be the next Heaven's Gate...but there will still be people in the funding chain getting hosed in a big way. "
Don't you wish that you are "one of those people in the funding chain" now?
Avatar has done the "impossible" (according to you). And it did so in 17 DAYS! Yes, over $1 billion and counting...And counting...And counting! Those that know the movie business knew that James Cameron would pull it off. He has done it time and again (historical evidence). Ok, so no one expected this! I mean, how much is this movie going to make? It has to be at least $1.6 billion, right? I mean, as of yesterday, the movie was already at $1.098 BILLION worldwide! It will take the #2 spot for worldwide gross before even starting its fourth weekend in theaters!
Anyway, maybe you just wrote the article to get noticed in the movie industry or get a few more hits on your website.
I have an idea...Why don't you do an article on how Iron Man 2 cost $700 million and is going to bomb and only make $150 million? Do it today! You will recieive plenty of traffic on your website before the movie comes out in four months...
Comment #16 (Posted by Granados)
Faraci wrong again.
Comment #17 (Posted by Radi Radi)
I read this article 500 times when reading for this film, the genius of the film was releasing it in 3d, which instantly adds anywhere from 20% somewhere on the east coast and 60% in far-east like hong kong and china, and the middle east
that in itself makes the movie more appealing, plus you still have to think that the technology itself made available will be and was licensed for a number of movies which will mean the it pays for itself.
You have to think that James Cameron with the two most grossing films of all time knows what he is doing.
Comment #18 (Posted by an unknown user)
This website design is painful on the eyes. White text against black is simply blinding!
Comment #19 (Posted by Senthil Kumar A )
it is just a beautiful movie. it has nothing new to offer, but reminds certain things like "dont steal minerals (oil from gulf)" to the morons or kill half a lakh people to make a point. America sucks. James Cameroon shows it to the world.
Comment #20 (Posted by mark)
beayiful
Comment #21 (Posted by robbied13)
I love looking back on these comments now because in a few weeks Avatar is going to be the number 1 movie of all time and probably finish out around $2 BILLION. they made a bunch of money no matter if the budget was 400 or 500 million.
Comment #22 (Posted by Alex)
LOL, some of these earlier comments are freaking hilarious!!!
"Avatar won't make more than $165 mils..." bahahahahaha!
Comment #23 (Posted by drust)
Over 1 billion worldwide after 4 weeks and still the no. 1 box office by far. Just saw it and it was an amazing film. It's not Gone With the Wind, but enormously entertaining.
Comment #24 (Posted by james )
I found the visual effects of the film groundbreaking, as well as all the effects and acting. But I found that the storyline was pretty bad. I mean, why would a loose-cannon general try to agitate the local population of blue aliens? Why wouldn't they simply look for another source of the Unobtanium? There is simply no point that people would do this. Why is it that all the bad people are on one side and the good on another? In life the people on one side and the people on the other tend to be a mix of good or bad, and usually there is an actual reason for the actions that we consider evil. Lets say that the general had to send unobtanium back to Earth for some urgent reason that could mean the extinction of the human race. That would be a reason to blow up a freakin' tree, not to make money and completely screw up relations with a group of people that have a large population, that faced with a common adversity would unite. There are logical issues with the storyline. Also, the story is a huge takeoff on a bunch of other films (i.e. Total Recall, Dancing With Wolves, any film with an evil authority figure that persecutes aliens/indians/mutants). The plotline goes back to the noble savage BS, the movie was romanticing the life of the Na'vi. I mean, they act as if it is so nice to be blue and 8 feet tall, but they don't go into the disease, sanitation issues, and the lack of modern conveniences that goes along with living the life of the Na'vi. I still enjoyed the movie, but at times I cringed at all the PC vibes.

