ZACK SNYDER EXPLAINS WHO THESE "WATCHMEN" ARE
- By Devin Faraci
- Published 11/14/2008
- News
In the graphic novel Watchmen there are two superhero teams. Neither is called The Watchmen. One, from the 1940s, is called The Minutemen. A second, still-born team from the 60s, is called The Crimebusters. I'd have to go back to the book and do a real analysis, but I don't think the word Watchmen (unless it's in the job title 'night watchman') is spoken by any character in the original. It is spray-painted on walls, though - during the 70s, when the public has turned on the masked vigilantes, 'Who Watches the Watchmen' (the English translation of 'Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?', a quote by the Roman poet Juvenal*).So with that history lesson in mind, some fans of the comic were perplexed when, at two different points in the latest trailer for the movie version, it sounded like people were referring to 'Watchmen' as a group. The dialogue bits in question sound weird, almost like they're clipped or laid in over real dialogue. Also, I knew that Zack Snyder had wrestled with whether or not to call The Minutemen The Minutemen, but as of the screening of twenty minutes of footage in LA last month, the team bore their original name. Seeking answers, I went right to the man himself. Here's what he had to say:
The original [team] we called the Minutemen, as per the graphic novel. We never exactly say whether or not in the more modern version we call them the Watchmen/Crimebusters. We loosely called them Watchmen as more of a the symbolic name, more than anything else.
Hrmm, as Rorschach might say. It sounds from that statement like 'Watchmen' isn't really being used in the film, or at least not being used in a big way. At this point, liking so much of what I've seen of Snyder's work on this film - and how generally uncompromising it is - I'm okay with a minor deviation like this (despite feeling that the deviation is actually major in a thematic way) simply because you have to make a concession or two towards the uninitiated audience.
* from his hit single, Get Ya Hustle On
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Comments
Comment #1 (Posted by Big Jim Slade)
Best asterisked joke ever.
Comment #2 (Posted by Jam Banjo)
Hurm indeed. At the end of the day, I can understand the implication for the general audience that this group is called the Watchmen, and to be fair that makes perfect sense. I certainly thought when I first picked up the comic that it was about a group called the Watchmen. But thankfully sounds like they aren't known as that in the film, a la the X-Men or something. Its a smart move in terms of getting the public onside. Its a tiny concession, if you can even call it a concession. Btw, the new trailer kicks arse. Superb.
Comment #3 (Posted by Mr. Fabulous)
I tire of referring to this as a graphic novel. It was a mini-series.
Comment #4 (Posted by JACK)
I dont care about that add in, people got to remember that it is his movie and were still lucky on how true he is staying to the book. There are always changes from book to screen, aka IDK that they changed the ending (come on people you know it still has the same moral and thats the important part).
Comment #5 (Posted by steve)
I imagine its purely for the people who have not read watchmen already, who will be a large % the bums on seats. Its fair enough. As long as there are no nipples on any of the suits and they have not changed the ending, i'm a happy bunny
Comment #6 (Posted by Nerd T. Nerd)
Unless you were speaking figuratively just pointing out that Ozymandias has nipples on his suit. Which I think is perfect for what it represents in the Hollywood comic book movie universe.
Comment #7 (Posted by Glen Manning)
"I tire of referring to this as a graphic novel. It was a mini-series." First, if you tire of referring to it as a graphic novel, stop referring to it as a graphic novel. Second, it was a novel serialized in chapters, later collected. Third, eat a bowl of fuck.
Comment #8 (Posted by Homer Jay)
Mmmmm...bowl of fuuuuck.
Comment #9 (Posted by GetOverIt)
McDonalds has a side of fuck on the dollar menu. Just a heads up...
Comment #10 (Posted by Yummmm)
Coming soon: Fuck Lite - made with real Soy!
Comment #11 (Posted by Ken)
childhood = raped
Comment #12 (Posted by Soup)
I won't spoil the movie ending from what was shown in Portland but how they changed from the Squid doesn't have the same "moral" as the book. That's why people are so pissed off. They didn't want the Squid that's fine, but something equally fantastic, unexpected, and unrelated to any of the characters would have been better and more True than how it plays out. I just don't want this to be like Zack Snyder wasting the entire Dark Phoenix story so he could put an ending into a nice neat little package. I'm praying the ending seen in Portland was a case of misdirection and the Real ending will be different.
Comment #13 (Posted by Crom)
At first I was fine with the changed ending as I completely believe this is the most faithfully adapted version of any previous attempts. But after thinking about it for a good long while it seems to make less and less sense to me. Why go full on only to ease up on the throttle right at the climax? I completely understand the compromises that have to be made in the studio system but it is a little perplexing given the success of SPOILER Alien invasion films, that a studio wouldn't be in to a mock Independence Day attack. It doesn't have to be a Squid but the entire point was to unite all of man against "The Other" - nationalism on a global scale. Anything else seems to miss the point.
Comment #14 (Posted by an unknown user)
@Soup & Crom: Yeah, I'm with you. I mean, the squid as "the other" was the grand unifier in the end. I'm not sure what they have planned, but whatever it is, it has to bring the world together and bring about peace. The other thing the squid did was leave a really cool trail of breadcrumbs for the characters to follow what with the scientists and the dome and the bioengineering facility etc.
Comment #15 (Posted by transcendgnat)
That's just nitpicking. The point is the movie looks fantastic. And so true to the source, to the point where if Moore claims not to like it, he might as well be saying he doesnt like the story he wrote. And Philip Glass's music gives it the perfect touch.
Comment #16 (Posted by the sea captain)
i got no problem with renaming the crimebusters as the watchmen, sure it's a betrayal of the novel but it's small beer after the loss of old squiddy. It'll save on Joe Schmuck-pack walking out "duh, why they call it watchmen?".
Ahh squiddy, I got nothing against ya, I just heard you had gold inyour belly.
Comment #17 (Posted by Dick Cheese)
@transcendgnat- You are a Hollywood shill. "If Moore doesn't like it he HATES his OWN story!" Bullcock. Sorry if the man still has integrity not to support another Hollywood comic book adaptation. They're all shit. This will be too. It's a corporate film designed to get money out of the wallets of geeky douchebags like you who love ridiculous slow-motion shots and pretty cinematography. Comments like yours really do show who's side you are on.
Comment #18 (Posted by DoctorManhattanBlueBallz)
If they think the squid is stupid then they're stupid... please don't forget we got a character that literally has blue balls.
If Doctor Manhanttan replaces the squid, then it beats the point. Doctor Manhattan is American, it's not going to unite the world against mr. blue balls, it's going to actually start a war with the US! Russia would have a real reason to launch.
Comment #19 (Posted by AndyB)
All the characters are 'the other' to a greater or lesser extent. Manhattans total distancing himself from humankind (except for shagging - I love the idea that even a omniscient god needs a good fuck) makes him more 'other' than anything else. 'I think I might create some' at the end of the book shows just how far gone he is (and he probably would just create some nubile lovelies to get his end away).
Comment #20 (Posted by Weightwatchmen)
I think the idea of Manhattan being the "other" at the end can be a strong treatment. The whole idea of superheroes and crimebusters is based on a reliance of higher powers/authority (sanctioned or unsanctioned) to sort people's shit for them. To have Manhattan put in the position of embodying what is bad about that concept (not necessarily the actuality in Manhattan's case) could be very powerful thematically and artistically while still making the same point of comic's calamari apocalypse without the huge non-sequitor (could easily become a punchline rather than a powerful moment among the mainstream). However, the loss of the "squid trail" plot would be a sad loss. @#3 - "I tire of referring to this as a graphic novel. It was a mini-series." No, it WAS a mini-series, it is now a graphic novel. And yes, eat a bowl of fuck.
Comment #21 (Posted by messi)
Changing the squid ruins the ending. Now the mainstream audience is not going to see why it's so brilliant, people are going to say it's not that smart. Shame. When the actual ending is smart and brings up that moral complexity that it would take something alien to unite a planet, something out of a comic book. Snyder you failed.
Comment #22 (Posted by moviemaniac-7)
On re-reading the graphic novel / mini series / masterpiece / whatever the other day I think the name Watchmen might derive from the fact that Jon went back for a watch and became Doc Manhattan because of it, thus deviating from the 'normal' timeline and starting the alternate history in which the US dominates the world with the help of Doc Manhattan and leading up to the political situation per the novel in 1985. This makes mankind Watchmen. It all started with a simple watch...
Comment #23 (Posted by Tim)
The Juvenile joke killed me.
Comment #24 (Posted by Thomas)
I've no idea what the new ending is, but did anyone really think they were going to keep an ending that involves a fabricated alien terrorist attack that destroys half of New York? And manage to keep any ambiguity whatsoever?
The original ending in today's context has new meaning. One could debate whether or not this adds or detracts from the themes of the novel, but I think including it in the film would cause a large percentage of viewers to misinterpret the ending. Perhaps to the point of anger.
If I were directing a movie with this much money riding on it, I wouldn't include it either.
Whether or not Snyder's come up with an effective alternate ending remains to be seen, but it seems silly to assume it doesn't work just because it's different. Without the entire film as context, how can you tell?
Comment #25 (Posted by nick)
So let's say dr m, who is a weapon of the us goes on a global rampage destroying us cities and international cities, why wouldn't that unite the world? Yes he is tech. an american weapon, but why would that stop the world from uniting???? Global finger pointing won't solve a absolute threat..... Squid is dumb btw
Comment #26 (Posted by Garth)
"It was a mini-series."
Even if it wasn't a "novel" and you're going to be THAT nitpicky, then YOU'RE fucking wrong too. At 12 issues, it would be a maxi-series.
So, yeah, I agree with the suggestion that you eat a bowl of fuck. Maybe have a second one, too.
Comment #27 (Posted by an unknown user)
Leaving out the alien threat is a big mistake. Having Dr Manhatten take it's place is rightly nonsensical. He is a known entity. Everyone also knows he is a U.S. weapon, so even if the Russians don't suspect a conspiracy everyone is still going to blame the U.S. for their weapon going out of control.
There's also the plot-holes that develop if you remove the squid and it's creation from the storyline. I'm not that optimistic Zach can fill the vacuum that well.
Sure, it will look great but it's the story that counts. I'm not bothered about referring to themselves as 'Watchmen' but if they basterdized Rorshach's opening monologue I will be *so* miffed.
Comment #28 (Posted by Gamera Jr.)
All this crying and fan entitlement makes me sick. I hope Zack gives it a happy ending and a musical number just to piss you all off.
Comment #29 (Posted by Jake)
The ending is similiar to that of Asimov's Foundation series of where all humanity is selected to evolve into a joint conciousness to avoid attack from a theoretical alian invasion. Both came out in 1986 although Asimov's was the conclusion of over 30 years of writing. Maybe it was the state of the times in the 80s that led to this shared attitude (if I were not a dumbass child at the time I guess I would know). Anyway its interesting to see two masterful tellings of two very different but equally excellent stories which share a common resolution. No squid though but a pretty well used fuck bowl.
Comment #30 (Posted by AndyB)
What plot holes if you remove the squid? The whole Isalnd thing, missing artists and writers? That can easily be removed from the movie and still leave the character beats. Fuck the squid, it;s a device that works (barely) in the novel but would not ever in a million years work on the big screen. People banging on about the squid reminds me of wankers who go 'oh well I knew this band when they were underground, but now they are mainstream they're not cool anymore'. Get over it. More importantly Snyder has confirmed the REAL ending of the novel (the hand reaching out for the book) is the end of the movie and thats the key thing. Seriously get over the squid fetishism.
Comment #31 (Posted by AgentK7)
With the squid being removed, not only does it eliminate the island of missing artists and writers but it also eliminates the reason that The Comedian is killed which sets up the WHOLE FREAKING STORY (along with the frameup of Rorschach and Doctor Manhattan and the fake attempt on Ozymandias). The only logical way in my mind you can do this would be if SPOILER SPOILER Ozymandias "frames" Doctor Manhattan to take the fall and The Comedian learns of it. HOWEVER, that cuts down the impact of the end of the book where Doctor Manhattan has reinvigorated his thoughts on mankind and even though you love to hate what Ozymandias did and want him dead, you have to respect his plan. UGH, the more I think about it the more ridiculous NOT ending the novel with some sort of "other threat" whether it be an alien squid or a bunch of ETs is ridiculous. Zach Snyder needs to give the public more credit....one of the influences behind the alien squid/world uniting ending to Watchmen was "The Day The Earth Stood Still". Guess what remake movie is coming out this December?
Comment #32 (Posted by Soupdragon)
"Loosely called Watchmen" my arse.
Sounds like it's plastered all over it, if one takes the new trailer into account.
And I don't like Doc Manhattan being framed for Veidt's plan. Veidt should stand alone with his own dark guilt.

