YOU GOT IT ALL WRONG, DAY SEVENTEEN
- By Jeremy Smith
- Published 04/22/2008
- Lists

You and I and all those people out there with a vocal love of film have ruined it for everyone, pimping movies up, falling in love with mediocre films and championing them to near-legendary status. We've embraced turkeys, legitimized borderline movies, and elevated modest films in our favorite franchises above and beyond realistic standards. We've even embraced the films everyone likes, somehow adding a credibility to them that transcends the mainstream. Sacred cows, little flicks, and everything in between. It's time we took a look inward and came clean with 25 movies we think need to be taken down a peg or two.
These are our four categories for this list:
OVERRATED
These guys have had it too easy. Far too easy. Don't believe the insane hype.
OVERBLOWN
Good flicks that have gotten too damn big for their britches.
MISUNDERSTOOD
Asshole, you love this film for all the wrong reasons.
WHAT THE FUCK
Something went horribly wrong here, and it's carried over to the fans, who are blinded by shizer.
These guys have had it too easy. Far too easy. Don't believe the insane hype.
OVERBLOWN
Good flicks that have gotten too damn big for their britches.
MISUNDERSTOOD
Asshole, you love this film for all the wrong reasons.
WHAT THE FUCK
Something went horribly wrong here, and it's carried over to the fans, who are blinded by shizer.
CHUD's Logline: I'll yield the floor to the IMDb's rsilberman: "In the last movie a cyborg was sent from the future to kill Sarah Connor, but he failed. Now a much more powerful one sent from the future to kill Sarah's son - John Connor, the leader of the future rebels. A terminator was send from the future once more, but this time to protect Connor. The only problem is that the terminator who was send to kill Connor is much more powerful and clever than the one who was send to protect him. Moreover, none can help Connor, since they do not believe in robots. Now Connor and his protector has no choice but to survive on their own.".Its Legacy: Spawned a wildly illogical sci-fi franchise. Entered "CGI", "morphing" and, thanks to David Foster Wallace, "f/x porn" into the popular lexicon. Firmly established James Cameron as one of the most bankable action directors of his era (following the commercial disappointment of The Abyss), and enabled his tyrannical on-set tendencies. Perilously raised the bar on practical stunt work. Thrust Edward Furlong into sudden stardom, which he did not handle well. Furthered Cameron's onscreen fetish for butch women. Introduced the inimitable Robert Patrick gait. Transformed Joe Morton into a sex symbol.
Why It's Here: James Cameron's Terminator 2: Judgment Day delivered so ferociously in 1991 that many of us took its greatness as a given. The brisk setup, stunning perception shifts (Schwarzenegger's a... good terminator?) and, most of all, groundbreaking special effects overwhelmed critical thought the first time through. The ride was all that mattered.
It's when we hopped back onto the rollercoaster for the second and third go-round that we realized the flaws in the construction: the interminable second act, the senseless time travel conceit, the preachiness, the unearned sentimentality, and, worst of all, the Furlong. As revolutionary as the film was technically, it became a bit of a bore; Cameron's anti-nuke posturing was a year past its sell-by (damn that glasnost!), while those mindblowing morphing f/x quickly lost their novelty. T2 also blows its wad before it bogs down in the steel mill for a protracted replay of the first film's finale; once you've seen a helicopter fly under an overpass, that liquid metal bullshit looks kinda old hat.
Terminator 2 is certainly more effective than other epochal, post-Star Wars blockbusters (e.g. Batman, Jurassic Park and The Phantom Menace), but Cameron's persistent moralizing ruins the B-movie fun of it all. Genre pictures may be welcome vessels for smuggled-in subversiveness, but they'll collapse once you start stuffing them full of anodyne pleas for peace on earth - especially when your film gets off on the T-1000's penchant for impalement (how's that milk taste, Xander?). Between John Connor convincing his big cyborg buddy to not kill humans, and Linda Hamilton's closing voice over ("Because if a machine, a Terminator, can learn the value of human life, maybe we can, too."), it's a wonder anyone can take T2 seriously anymore. And don't get me started on that torpid, 152-minute "Director's Cut". A little artistic compromise is a wonderful thing for James Cameron.
A Moment of Piss: John Connor teaches his Terminator slang.
These Ain't Chopped Liver Alternatives: The Terminator, Aliens, Colossus: The Forbin Project, Testament, The Road Warrior.
Russ Fischer Agrees: What can I say that Beaks hasn't already hit? There's no arguing Cameron's craft, at least in a broad sense. The first act of T2 represents the top of the director's game; it's a pure piece of high-octane filmmaking, with supremely clear action and seamless blend of practical and post-production effects. In 1991 it was dazzling, and retains the power to impress today. But as soon as John Connor and the Terminator begin to interact, the movie reveals just how important Cameron was convinced the enterprise could become. The original film was a surprising b-movie blast, and here Cameron tries to elevate that same basic storytelling approach. It had worked in Aliens (and arguably in The Abyss, but since I haven't seen that film in years, that's someone else's argument) but here a pointedy didactic approach turns the film into a real slog. Few directorial stances can break a movie for me, but delivering po-faced life lessons about violence while blowing shit up to entertain the audience is definitely one. The opening draws me right in, then with moralizing and needlessly messy time travel concepts the rest of the movie systematically tunes me out.
Nick Nunziata Disagrees: You guys do realize it's a Terminator movie, right? Just because there's nothing going down at the local Tech Noir in the second film doesn't mean it ain't good. These are films about time traveling cyborgs that have never been as much about the science fiction and storytelling deftness than they are extremely solid concepts delivered with superior craftsmanship. Edward Furlong is not only an acting albatross, he's an albatross filled to the rim with semen and radioactive hate pellets and shot into your grandmother's soft spot but even with him doing his best to make this movie worse than bioterror, it still holds its own as one of the cornerstone action/sci-fi films of all time. I think T2 was overblown in the mid-90's when there was a dearth of really powerful movies of its kind (unless James Cameron was making them), but after The Matrix hit I think the mantle of overblown sci-fi/actioners was passed along. This film certainly feels a lot smaller now and at times somewhat trite, but in the wake of an overhated [not a real word, I know] sequel and a television show, T2 is almost an antique. A reminder of when CGI was this mysterious new thing and when sequels could be big on their own merits. When a certain Austrian wasn't a total punchline. This is a very imperfect movie but there's a very nice bit of nostalgia to it now that renders it at just the right amount of "blown". Also, this film came out on my birthday and I had IHOP that morning and threw up. I have not thrown up since the release date of this film and since I have not overblown since, nor has it.
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Article Series
This article is part 2 of a 2 part series. Other articles in this series are shown below:
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YOU GOT IT ALL WRONG, DAY SEVENTEEN
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Comments
Comment #1 (Posted by Jamie)
I think you meant Edward Furlong.
Comment #2 (Posted by Chris Trainor)
Ok, you guys have lost your fucking minds now. The Fog and Terminator 2? Please.
Comment #3 (Posted by Anon)
You haven't thrown up in 16 years? That can't be good.
Comment #4 (Posted by jhC)
I love these articles, but seriously, this is like Aaron Coupland giving a serious critique of the latest Korn album.
Keep up the good work guys!
Comment #5 (Posted by Corey)
"OOOHHH. It's not artistic enough!" "OOOHHH. It's F/X porn!"
The entire existence of this article proves nothing more than that the idiot(s) who wrote it have completely forgotten what movies are about in the first place. Not everything has to be a god damned art flick. T2 is without a doubt Cameron's finest work. I know that some of us go overboard at times, but it is nice to know that there are some geeks out there still that like to go to movies to be entertained, rather than pissing and moaning about the fucking character development.
Guess what? I think citizen kane is a piece of shit because it's in black and white. If it had been in color we'd be able to enjoy the characters so much more. Yeah, you sound just as fucking stupid as that statement.
Comment #6 (Posted by Gwai Lo)
Uhh, no. You guys finally lost me. Say what you want about John Connor calling some mullet dipshit or whatever, in terms of action sequences this film is unassailable. No one has topped the pure adrenaline of T2, and it has endless replay value. You're way off on this.
Comment #7 (Posted by Conrad)
I'm a bit lost here. How is the time travel conceit "needless"? Isn't it what the whole story from the first film that they were building on was created around? As for the moralizing, just how do you propose Cameron portray nuclear holocaust? Should we have gotten more character development for SkyNet? Maybe a wise-cracking nuclear missile like KITT that makes sarcastic remarks in the dream sequences where the world explodes?
Comment #8 (Posted by RCA)
Again, another awesome movie, that maybe you don't like, but it still great today. Terminator 3 sucked and so does that television show, but this is an example of a sequel that took what was great about the first and blew the motherfucker out of the water. Aliens is still the best sequel EVER(in terms of being better in every way than the original, and I do love Alien), but this one is right up there. I think True Lies would fit this list better, although I love that movie if only for every second that Bill Paxton is on screen firing off pearls such as "What are we talking about here? Pussy." "The vet get's em wet" "Ass like a ten year old boy" "I've got a small dick... and I hardly ever score!" Shakespear wishes he wrote Paxton's dialogue inTrue Lies....
Comment #9 (Posted by masterbrocksamson)
I gotta say, you're way off the fucking mark here. This is a great film, lotta fun, one of my favorites. T2 is quite re-watchable to boot.
Comment #10 (Posted by oslowe)
the problem isn't the f/x, or even Furlong (who actualyl is a credible 10 year old protaganist), the problem lays in the Disneyfication of the Terminator. from the licks of "Bad to the Bone" as he suits up to the "Now I know why human's cry"/thumbs up Ripley immersion act, the Terminator himself is the albatross of T2. Linda Hamilton elevates the shit pseudo-feminist writing and brings a real pathology and fear to her role, and Joe Morton kicks it better than anyone slowly bleeding out with a detonater in their hands has. Robert Patrick is wonderfully creepy and just-off enough to be a believable Spooky-Cop/cyborg killing machine, and the fantastic practical effects shine. It drags, yes. The "message" is trite at best (huh, and the same one as The Abyss too: people suck and will fuck up their world. Hardly original), but it is really the bastardization of a kickass horror-film with sci-fi trappings (with a coked up Michael Biehn, natch) that burns.
The Terminator (1) was essentially a stripped down horror-b-movie with a sci-fi/bodice-ripping romance twist. Following that up with a bloated "sad kid finds surrogate daddy in defanged killing machine" is what kills T2 for me.
Is it a kickass ride, even still? Yeah, and when my son is ten or so, I bet he'll love it. But for me, it's a fun piece to revisit every couple of years and shake my head and laugh at how bad some of it is... while still admiring the parts that work. Verdict of Overblown= Agreed.
Comment #11 (Posted by an unknown user)
I'm sorry CHUD but I will NEVER come to this site again. T2 is THE action movie PERIOD! This site has lost all credibility.
Comment #12 (Posted by Jacob)
Although I disagree that the film is overblown (T2 is one of my all-time favorite movies), I continue to love and appreciate this series. Some people don't seem to like seeing their favorite films undermined, but to me, that's the whole joy of these articles. To see films that I love looked at in a new and wildly different fashion...FASCINATING. The fact that some posters are getting so riled up make this entire series worthwhile and proves that people would rather put their hands on their ears and yell "LALALAALA!" rather than hear a different opinion.
Comment #13 (Posted by an unknown user)
Apparently, you guys are way wrong here. Maybe YOU GUYS are overblown. Maybew it is CHUD.COM that is doing the blowing!
Comment #14 (Posted by Ham Sandwich)
Hahaha. I finally get the joke.
Comment #15 (Posted by BULLSHIT!)
I'm not going to even acknowledge that Jeremy exists, let alone has a point to make, until he gets a photo up just like everyone else. I cry bullshit on him.
Comment #16 (Posted by Arnold Braunschweiger)
Exactly! This is not a good sequel at all, and the original is incomparably better. Hallelujah!
I just hope you guys will have the balls to declare "Aliens" overblown. Now THAT is a trash sequel that gets a whole lot of disgusting and undeserved love. Cameron ignored and destroyed O'Bannon's concept of intelligent aliens (and the alien pyramid...) and replaced them with big ants. As a result, we have "Alien versus Predator" now.
Comment #17 (Posted by DS)
Nick's 100% dead-on with this one.
Comment #18 (Posted by Tony Scarboni)
Why has SWINGERS not made this list yet? You guys being the film geeks you are probably think of that movie as the Holy Grail, but I say that movies time is due! BATMAN BEGINS also deserves a spot in the hall of shame. That movie was just pretentious garbage.
Comment #19 (Posted by mike o))))
Apparently people around here can't read. Jeremy and Nick obvously hate T2 by calling it "overblown" which, by their defenition is a "GOOD FLICK that has gotten too damn big for its britches."
Oh, and unknown user (#11), I'm sure you'll be missed.
Comment #20 (Posted by The Edward Furlong Apologist/Appr. Society)
The summer movie of the 90's. What's not to love? The Jim Cameron/Arnold Schwazenegger juggernaut at its pinnacle. A buffed Linda Hamilton, sexy & kickass. a supercool villian, robert Patrick. A wrongly underappreciated performance by newcomer Edward Furlong-capturing the bratty, insecure, faux-cool of an over-the-edge suburban kid; a kid lost, blank, from a broken home. Taking the unstoppable killing machine from the original and attempting to create a believable surragate father /son story was a gamble. It took balls; challenging the conventions/expectations of the geek base. It paid off in spades. Not only a thrill ride to top the original (and pretenders). But it added a humanist streak. A spiritual side. And yes, an emotional heart elevating and delivering not only the action but moving , character based drama. I still cry at the end (and I'm not ashamed).
Comment #21 (Posted by bpvalentine)
Aliens is a wonderful movie. Though you may be right it lead to Alien <8 Predator, I think it is 20th Century Fox who kept that franchise from going in more interesting directions, even ignoring an offer from Ridley Scott to come back if they killed or at least postponed AvP. That is crazy shit. T2 had its day, but I have to agree that it is not a movie I continue to hold dearly.
Comment #22 (Posted by SciCurious)
Once Jean Reno came on the scene as the ultimate on-screen killing machine in Nikita, Arnie lost his leading edge. I'll re-watch this for Robert Patrick though. Cameron himself has said the film lacks style and proper construction because of the quick/rushed pre-production. Structurally The Terminator (1) is a piece of art compared to T2 as well as being more lean and exciting. The truck action is flat, which is weird considering the work that went into it - Mad Max 2 it ain't (I guess the golden rule is "don't-do-truck-action-with-wire-removal"). But it's a cornerstone film for kids of a certain age at the time, when Austrian Leathermen were more important to them than girls.
Comment #23 (Posted by RCA)
"Cameron ignored and destroyed O'Bannon's concept of intelligent aliens (and the alien pyramid...) and replaced them with big ants. As a result, we have "Alien versus Predator" now."...... Ummmm..... Arnold Bumscwager, did you see Alien vs Predator? It takes place almost entirely inside of a "pyramid"...... Intelligent aliens are very scary, like in Battlefield Earth, right?
Comment #24 (Posted by AJ)
Is it ironic or just ridiculous that after all the attacks on nostalgia on this site, one of its writers is now using it as a defense?
This column needs to end immediately.
Comment #25 (Posted by Chaz's Jizz)
Yay for CHUD! The site redesign worked!
Comment #26 (Posted by cholm)
I do agree that T2 is a little overblown. The original is far superior. Arnold made a much better villain than a hero, and T2 is definitely lacking in the Michael Biehn department. Plus Cameron kind of forgets his own logic with the good guys trying to change the future when he kind of proved in the first film that everything happened because it was supposed to happen and that time was a loop.
Comment #27 (Posted by Crossfire)
With the way the original ended, I was expecting more from T2. Especially when the subtitle is JUDGMENT DAY. It should have been called "T2: Preventing Judgment Day" because the whole thing reeks of a Back to the Future Part II plot. If anything should be a part of this "You've Got It All Wrong" series, it's Terminator 3. That film delivered! And the ending was perfect!
Comment #28 (Posted by Edward Norton)
Holy shit! I didn't know I was in this!
Comment #29 (Posted by Shannon)
Couldn't agree more. Ponderous and preachy.
Comment #30 (Posted by mike)
this is worst fucking list that chud has ever done.
i am so fucking sick of these. i can't wait for this gay shit to end
Comment #31 (Posted by You Could Be Mine)
Hating Edward Furlong in T2 is like hating the Goonie kids. Who would do that? Oh, wait..........
Comment #32 (Posted by darthspielberg)
I am gonna go with Nick on this one...it is, after all, a fucking Terminator movie..
but Jeremy does bring up some good points, as usual. Go, Mr. Beaks, Go!
Comment #33 (Posted by Luke)
I've visited this site for 7 years and I rarely comment on your articles. This one, however... I just don't understand. Since when did CHUD become such movie nazis? I visit this site because I thought you liked movies. Have I been wrong all along?
Comment #34 (Posted by mr_adam)
T2, as far as I'm concerned was the first fx action blockbuster. termainator was a low-budget sci-fi piece that would have been all but forgotten if Arnie hadn't become the #1 action star of the 80s & 90s. T2 is the reason we're still talking about terminators and the reason they're still making terminator films/comics/tv shows. I still think it's watchable, I sat through it again last week. Some parts seem a bit flat now but mostly it reminded me how blown-away I was the first time. It still has those moments of piss though....
Comment #35 (Posted by drewlicious)
I often think people are confusing whats overblown with what is simply a product of its time. As an action movie experience I see few movies that can hold a candle to T2 and even fewer sequels. As opposed to giving us more of the same Cameron chose to reinvent his creation. I never had a problem with Furlong's performance or the surrogate father angle. That hair however....Robert Patrick & Arnold=great hero and villain. And possibly best of all was Linda Hamilton, she was crazy but she was still right. I admired and feared this character because she was just as direct as the monsters she was trying to kill. Yes some of the humor misses and some of the rhetoric is tiresome. Still, the overall point is that we will inevitably build something so powerful it will kill us all if we're not careful. That's still true today, just switch Nuclear Holocaust with Global Warming. We'll be having this same discussion about The Matrix next year by the way when the movie hits the ten year mark. We'll be saying, "I can't believe we bought into that bullet time crap and that hokey love story" and completely miss why we loved it so much in the first place.
Comment #36 (Posted by CumOnMeIfYouWantToLive)
Overblown compared to what? It's easily in the top five sci fi action films of all time. You list Aliens and the Road Warrior. Neither of those films are perfect either. You've got Newt and Hudson - Feral kid and Lord Humungous - but it doesn't matter because at the end of the day there still hasn't been anything as good since right? Same as T2. And fuck it if its ham fisted, but if the message Cameron is trying to convey is anti-nuke I happen to support that shit. Every action movie without a message is called mindless and every one with a message is called pretentious. It's that kind of elitist bullshit that keeps genre movies down. Fuck you.
Comment #37 (Posted by Tennyson)
One other point Nick didn't make is that T2 plays perfectly to the storytelling sensibilities of the time it was made. Arnold's films were defining what action movies were, and T2 is the definitive Arnold film. Does it strike me as cheesy? Sometimes, but if I remind myself how self-aware action cinema has gotten, it slides into perspective. T2 was all big emotions, big ideas, and big set pieces. Today, those set pieces always accompany big cynicism and sarcasm. That's what happened with movies like the Rock and Mission: Impossible, which I love by the way. T2's biggest offense is wearing it's heart on it's sleeve. In the wake of T2, the next film that made me feel that way was Spider-man.
Comment #38 (Posted by Charlie X)
Excuse me? I just -- there are no words. Fuck you, Chud. FUCK YOU. Fuck you.
Comment #39 (Posted by moviemenace)
"T2" is essentially "Titanic". When you watch it the first time, you are in such awe you overlook the obvious flaws. Once you start to think about it, you realize that the movie isn't as bad-ass as you initially thought. They are wrong on one thing; this movie didn't make Joe Morton a sex symbol, "Brother from Another Planet" did.
Comment #40 (Posted by Z-Boy)
You just have to watch the opening sequence of this film to realize something: "fucking sense of spectacle". This is what T2 is about, and this is what James Cameron has: a sensational sense of spectacle. And it's awesome.
Comment #41 (Posted by Joshua)
This series is sadly changing my view of Chud. I came to this site to avoid the foaming at the mouth, blinded fanboy-ism of AICN and the pseudo-intellectual film snobbery of Film Threat. Sadly, Chud seems to be transforming into an icky hybrid of the worst of both worlds.
Comment #42 (Posted by an unknown user)
Yeah...I'm dissappointed in Chud too. T2 is a classic. How could you???
Comment #43 (Posted by diaglo)
You can't blame guys that are honest about movies. You don't agree with them? Then get some dialogue going, other than "CHUD sucks! Wahhhh!" I love T2 and I recognize its shortcomings. I also recognize when a site is rich in content, as CHUD very much is. Who cares if a couple of guys don't like a movie you do.
Comment #44 (Posted by Wow)
CHUD, where hollow flamebait is considered content.
Comment #45 (Posted by Connor)
As usualy, Nick is wrong. The guy says Highlander is overblown, then defends T2 by reminding everyone that "It's just a Terminator movie." You are a moron, Nick. Please just give the site to Devin and move on. You know fuck all about movies and are just a detriment to CHUD.
Comment #46 (Posted by Ere I am JH)
Does no one understand the purpose behind this list. It is not a hate-a-thon. One can like a movie and still see its flaws. The love of film is not yes and no.
Comment #47 (Posted by kremer)
My response to comment #4, honestly these guys are funny but Copland? Really? I think that was a thinly veiled insult at Aaron Copeland. In fact I think the more appropriate metaphor would be Lawrence Welk commenting on Iron Maiden? I dunno about this list, because there's always something they miss about how things fit in historical context. Meh, down with the shitty comics! Get more reviews of crap I'd actually watch!
Comment #48 (Posted by jon waldman)
I have to say that I, like many readers, am having a bit of trouble getting behind some of the opinions in this article. Yesterday's entry about "The Fog", I was unaware that the fog was even a classic, like 90% of the people out there don't even know that there is an original film, they've only heard of the remake. As for T2, and I have to say that much of it's charm is how big and crazy the whole thing is. I don't think that it's really overblown anymore, cause it's looked on as an old movie by lots of people now, and with how much bigger and stupider summer movies have gotten, I feel it stands the test of time rather well, and deserves the praise put upon it.
Comment #49 (Posted by Ale)
Aliens is an alternative? When was the last time you watched that movie?
Comment #50 (Posted by an unknown user)
I truly hate reading the comments in these articles "YOU GUYS ARE WAAAAY OFF THE MARK HERE I AM LEAVING CHUD FOREVERS"...do they even any of the article or are they just reacting to it being in "THE LIST" this is the 7-10 video game rating scale / top ten list hokum that makes the internet a fuckpunch - oh fuck my favorite game was given an 8.9 by gamefaqs THE WORLD IS UNJUST. fags.
Comment #51 (Posted by Miasta)
Almost total agreement from me on this one. While I do like the movie, I would rather watch the first and the third one before T2. 1 and 3 were nice simple movies that moved along nicely. T2 can seem so...heavy (I guess) that it can become a chore to finish sometimes. I know T3 gets a lot of hate, but I still enjoy watching it. It's hard for me to NOT finish it when it is on. T1 is simply a classic in my book. Likely one of my top 10. I think T2 is still a very good movie, and likely a better quality movie then the other two as far as grading a movie is concerned, but the gripes mentioned in the article are a lot of the same gripes I've always had with it. No hate here!
Comment #52 (Posted by James Camecoon)
The straw that broke the camels back, Beaks your opinions in these articles have been highly retarded so far, but this one takes the fucking cake for just being shit-stupid retarded. You officially beaten devin in "stupidest fucker on chud.com" which a pretty big fucking achievement, so please sit back a pat your mongoliod back for a moment. And all this coming the guy who thinks Michael bay is "cinematic" and is there for brilliant no matter how terrible, evil and *gasp* preachy his "films" are. Way to go, shit-stain. Please, don't let this post stop you from eating James Cameron's preachy chunky corn filled shit and dying really fucking soon, you dirty irish cum discharge.
Comment #53 (Posted by Vagina Sausage)
Damn, all you whiners need to go pop a pill or a tampon and relax. Everybody has opinions, and every other person sees things differently from the other. Fucking pussies...
Comment #54 (Posted by Anonymous Coward)
I think the major problem with this series is that despite the appearance of four categories, the commentary in each piece more often than not reads like the film is 'overrated', not overblown or misunderstood. Why not just do proper 'retrospective' reviews for these movies instead of using this blatant fanboy taunting format? This whole series comes across as a thinly veiled means for the writers to tear into the stuff they don't like. Probably generates a few hits though.
Comment #55 (Posted by reggie-wanker)
I always marked T2 as the exact point where James Cameron went from making really good movies to making "impressive" ones whose innumerable flaws. I saw it in the theater, was duly impressed by the spectacle, and never had the slightest inclination to watch it again. Maybe he'll recaputure some of that ABYSS era magic with his next movie. Here's hoping. He'll always have the Space Ovaries from BATTLE BEYOND THE STARS, and that gets you a lot of goodwill points from me no matter how many TITANICS and TRUE LIES he poops out.
Comment #56 (Posted by reggie-wanker)
"Making "impressive" ones whose innumerable flaws I was clearly supposed to overlook." is what that was supposed to say. Because ALIENS and ABYSS (Director's Cut) are both damn close to perfect movies in my book.
Comment #57 (Posted by Anti-Nick Stahl League of United Geeks)
We don't know what Jesus Christ was like as a kid. Thanks to James Cameron & Edward Furlong we do John Connor. Whiney, bratty, arrogant, and scared. An abandoned kid in the system. Pre-adolescent tension: cock-sure, & confused. His Public Enemy shirt tells us he embraces the outsider. Robbing the ATM shows he's anti-authoritarian; an anarchist. Oh sweet irony, that this scowling smart aleck with the cracking voice and the haunted eyes would become savior of man kind; the most important leader of all time. From hating everything; rebelling against anything you got-to learning to care, feel &sacrifice. Who would make him a man, guide him down this road to destiny? A crazed, militant mother & and a machine from the future. Like the greatest story ever told, greatness is protected by the love of a surragate father. Only not a shepherd or carpenter, a terminator. An unstoppable killing machine now reprogrammed into a guardian angel, always there for his human 'son'. Learning to feel & care, along with his unwavoring dedication-(truly more human than human). In the end we are left with something rare from the typical action or summer movie. Hope. The message that we can change the world. The future is unwritten.
Comment #58 (Posted by John W.)
Oh dear...this list just derailed and took out a whole schoolyard in the process.
Comment #59 (Posted by Dantheman)
I don't think I've ever posted a comment here before but here it goes. As a fan I only have two problems with this. First of all, I don't think the "Overblown" title fits anymore. For the time period it came out, it was an awesome action/ sci-fi flick. Now almost 20 years later it seems small in scale of action compared to the (mostly) crap action films we have today. Hell compared to The Matrix (which they were heavily compared when it came out) or the hyper-reality of 300, both good examples of fun action films, T2 feels very small. I'm not seeing this with my young eyes either. I caught T2 for the first time in 8 years last month while it was making the rounds on AMC. I was very surprised with how well the film has held up.
Also, I don't see the nuclear thing being overblown in T2. The nuclear war is a very central part in the terminator mythology. It deserves all the time it gets. If you are looking for a Cameron film with a heavy hand and MESSAGE in big letters all over it, check out the second half of The Abyss. I love the director's cut of this, but goddamn it gets preachy.
Either way, I think the film still holds water and holds it well. Sometimes what makes a classic a classic is that it still entertain despite its flaws.
Anyway, I don't hate CHUD for writing about this and for the most part agree with them.
PS: I know this should go on a different post, but since when was The Fog considered a classic by ANYONE? Also if you have an extreme hate for Aliens then you must think that fun and action films must NEVER come together. That movie is damn close to perfect. Oh, it screwed up story that could have been? So fucking what!
Comment #60 (Posted by Johnny Daywalker)
Nick nailed the whole " It seems smaller now " which you would think could render it off this list. This is at least a well made and tight sci-fi action flick. Imagine if Gore Verbinski kept the fat to a minimum in the POTC films (where are there inclusion when there is bullshit like The Fog on this list?). Yeah the sequel is overhated and is alright but how could it not pale to how strong the first 2 films were? Does that not by itself prove T2 isn't overrated or overblown at all?
Comment #61 (Posted by Ben)
Heheh... this whole series is just trolling on a grand scale, and it's amazing how easily some people are taking the bait. Go on, you sons of bitches, keep goading us, keep stirring up controversy.
BTW, I agree with pretty much all the articles thus far aside from 'Fight Club' (which I don't think is at all misunderstood, except by the tabloid media), and 'The Fog' (which I don't think anyone has ever considered a masterpiece).
Comment #62 (Posted by Todd)
Critiquing T2...negatively. Slow day, huh. I think these articles are pointless. Especially if you have to have four seperate categories, each with a VERY specific definition. I think at that point, it just becomes a waste of time. Why not just enjoy the damn movies.
Reading these articles is like hearing Wanda Sykes talk about geometry.
Is there a point? Will anyone walk away from this feeling a sense of enlightenment? Nope! These movies will still remain awesome.
Comment #63 (Posted by Moorish)
T2 is fucking ace. The Furlong is awful but the movie easily survives him. If THIS is overblown then Star Wars is blown the fuck to Tatooine and back (which incidentally, I think it is).
Comment #64 (Posted by Shame on you)
Yo know nothing about cinema. This "You got it all wrong" bullshit is embarrasing.
Comment #65 (Posted by messi)
God you guys are such losers. If you can't even enjoy T2. You guys fail at life, no wonder everyone makes fun of you.
Comment #66 (Posted by Hieronymous)
I'm loving this column. It's like a personal attack on the best movies of the last fifty years. I personally can't wait to hear their thoughts on classics like PSYCHO, 2001, and the original STAR WARS trilogy. It's almost as if the CHUD gang were sitting around one day and announced "My friends, the day has come to reveal our true dislike of movies and we must create a column to detail it in depth." I enjoy it and am completely shocked with every new installment.
Comment #67 (Posted by an unknown user)
I think T2 is boring as fuck. I actually like the director's cut more and I think the first film is better because it's leaner, meaner, and 100% less bullshit. But I still think T2 is great movie and will watch it even if I fall asleep sometime between the escape from the institution to the high way chase.
Comment #68 (Posted by CUNT FACE FUCK YOU)
Utter bollocks.
Comment #69 (Posted by Owain Wilson)
Wankers.
Comment #70 (Posted by YouHeardMe)
All you little turds claiming that CHUD has finally lost it and that you'll never read it again are fucking funny. Who cares what you think? If you had an ounce of balls or self-respect you'd actually fuck off somewhere else instead of whining about it. But no, you'll be back, day after day, reading all the articles that continue to enrage you. Little pissants!
Comment #71 (Posted by Ben)
I can't help now but think that this article was conceived to enable Chud writers to mock the tastes of a significant proportion of their readers. That seems to me to be the principle vibe. I can't see the purpose of it otherwise, and it's not like the Writers are making constructive comments about alternatives to the films they critique - they are in there as a modest aside buried halfway thru each article. I remember Nick once saying Chud was a site where "no movie is beneath us" which I used to believe.
Comment #72 (Posted by MyWalkingDead)
Being an Alien fan myself, I have to disagree with you there on one thing RCA:
"Aliens is still the best sequel EVER(in terms of being better in every way than the original, and I do love Alien), but this one is right up there." - I agree that Aliens is one of teh best sequels ever, but better in the original in every way?; what do you mean? as in it has more guns and gung ho Americans than the first? (not a bash on the yanks there) .
Aliens is a great sequel because it's not just a simple clone of the first movie and that's why it works. Aliens is more of a sci-fi/horror/war movie compared o the first movie's more intense retrained style. Again, I love both movies and can watch Aliens more often than Alien, but to say that it's better in every way than the first film is like comparing Butter to Jam.
I also think T2 worked so well for the same reason; the first film is like a Sci-fi slasher movie and the T2 works because as Cameron did with Aliens, it's more of a Sci-fi Action film.
Comment #73 (Posted by davenix)
Seriously...until I see that piece of shit "Running Scared" up here you can save your lame opinions for your WoW clan. This website made such a shitacularly big deal over that crap ass movie (that sucked like a trailor park tart with daddy issues) that I can NEVER take your opinion about ANYTHING seriously again. Really, you all suck and it would be nice if you just admit you will say anything for free access to shit you would never get into otherwise.
Comment #74 (Posted by Dave Brasgalla)
The film definitely has it's moments, and stuntwork doesn't get much more visceral than that semi in the drainage canal (although smashing Arnold through a showroom on the end of a crane arm works for me), but the "thumbs up" sinking into the molten metal is just corny and dumb. I mean, really - it's dumb. The whole "tame terminator" angle rounds off the sharp edge of this film for me.
Comment #75 (Posted by Buddy Holly)
Wow. I stopped reading these columns after the first one. The reader comments however, are funny as hell. From the people who are swearing off the site to the people who lose their tempers after reading that someone was leaving the site and never coming back.
Hee-larious!
Comment #76 (Posted by Jon)
T is one of the best B-Movie Sci-Fi flicks ever. A big budget and a huge sta and director soesn't mean it has to be a wet dream. It was fun and cost alot of money, so we want it to be better, who cares if the story falls a little flat. But then again, I liked t3 better, so what the fuck do I know?
Comment #77 (Posted by Solomon Arthur)
A good distinction... Mr. Beaks does like T2. He just doesn't love it. I can understand that. I'm just wondering when this series will start talking about the really "Bad" Over-hyped films. Any number of Oscar winners from the last twenty five years would do. With only seven entries left... you all better get to Haggis's Crash and Chariots of Fire.
Comment #78 (Posted by YOU)
Finally, something I agree with in this bullshit feature. I think someone should do an overblown entertainment website piece.(Ex- A Moment of Piss: Chud goes on and on about the genius of Broken Lizard or how great Meg will be).
Comment #79 (Posted by Joe Chill)
No, sorry, you guys are wrong again. T2 is maybe the greatest action movie ever and a few small quibbles can't change that.
Comment #80 (Posted by Hal Hartley)
Don't forget how it flogged Ultraviolet as the next big thing. Boy oh boy.
Comment #81 (Posted by masonReloaded)
T2 overrated? Puh-lease. It is probably one of the greatest action films of all time. So it has a few flaws and has aged a little bit. Show me a film that hasnt. The action sequences still hold up 17 years later, it has real and emotional character development for all the main characters from John and Sarah both growing up and reconnecting emotionally, to the T800 learning the value of human life, to Miles Dyson sacrificing himself to correct his mistakes. Show me another action film that bothers to take time to paint its characters so deeply, apart from maybe Aliens (also Cameron, hmmm - is there a pattern here?).
Seriously - someone please try to argue that theres a better written and directed action film than this.
Comment #82 (Posted by Ted Brolin, break-dancer of Josh)
SERIOUSLY, I'M NOT KIDDING...WHERE THE HELL IS OWEN??!!??
Comment #83 (Posted by The orderly who licks Sarah Conner's face in)
I've probly watched T2 15 times and I love it each time. One of the best action movies ever. You Guys Are STOOOOPID
Comment #84 (Posted by NiceGuyEdward)
Writers at CHUD: I enjoy your site and all the time and effort you put into it. I disagree with a lot of what you guys say, but that doesn't take away from me liking your site. Its fun to share opinions with other cinephiles and also fun to read their thoughts, ESPECIALLY when they disagree (who wants to visit a site where they always have the exact same thoughts). I just thought you guys would want to know that there's a silent majority of your reader who like what you do but don't post as often as the flamers. Thanks for letting me say my four cents....
Comment #85 (Posted by Jawa 007)
Man: An argument isn't just contradiction.
Mr Vibrating: It can be.
Man: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.
Mr Vibrating: No it isn't.
Man: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction.
Mr Vibrating: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.
Man: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.'
Mr Vibrating: Yes it is!
Man: No it isn't!
Comment #86 (Posted by bozemaster)
Terminator 2 is a classic movie that STILL holds up today! After this film, all other movies tried desperately to mimic, duplicate, copy (blue screen filters, CGI, pulsing soundtrack for action sequences). In my opinion, The Matrix was the only film to up the ante using the Terminator 2 "formula".
Comment #87 (Posted by Kaleidoscope)
Jeremy just lost the small amount of credibility that he had left. This is a pathetic choice, boys.
Comment #88 (Posted by RCA)
MyWalkingDead.... I see what you mean.. "Aliens is a great sequel because it's not just a simple clone of the first movie and that's why it works. Aliens is more of a sci-fi/horror/war movie compared o the first movie's more intense retrained style." I totally agree and I think that is why it is better. Not because it has more guns and ammo, just because it takes what was a relatively small story(an awesome story, I agree) and takes up everything a notch without losing anything in translation. It has everything that made the original great, tension, effects, more layered characters but it adds new layers like Ripley's post traumatic strees disorder and her "motherly" connection with Newt(the only real weak point is Newt, but only a little) amazing battles(when the first start fighting the aliens under the reactor and you only really experience the action from inside the "tank" outside of a few quick cuts to the inside of the reactor. The scene with the motion sensors and the part where they fall from the cieling which then trasitions into a shootout in the air ducts. Awesome! Still works great today), instead of just people getting picked off slasher style. It is the non-stop intensity, story and action, that makes it the best. Alien introduced the concept, Aliens knocks it out of the park(It did get nominated for 7 academy awards including best actress). I should note, I have watched Aliens more than any other movie... by far. Probably my favorite movie of all time.
Comment #89 (Posted by an unknown user)
Face it, the third terminator is better that T2. T2 is shit. Yes, great action sequences, cool effects- but the same could be said about Episode 1. Everything in between is tedious.
Comment #90 (Posted by Jeremy Smith)
Yes, I was tottaly wrong in putting this on the list... this movie is very good. At the time I wrote this, my head was too far up my mother ass to know what I was doing. See, the sweat smell of her rear honestly made me insane for the whole two minutes it took me to write this POS article. Someitmes I wonder, why this 5th tier website can never be better. I mean, I quarky little headlines, aren't they cute? or our punches at filmmakers who have more talent in their stools, then in our combined bodies... please, please, someone like us... the days oflooking up brazalin fart porn are growing old, and we stem for someone who picked on us in high school to like us.... please
isn't is obvious now, that every writter on this site, was beat up while growing up, and ignored by their parents. So now we rip on people who are doing worlds better then us.... See ya on G4 9fingers crossed)
Comment #91 (Posted by Josh)
Way off base with T2. Movie's incredible. Enjoyed it when I was twelve. Still liked it the other day when I watched it. And not just in some ironic or nostalgic way. I take more umbrage however at Russ's almost dismissal of The Abyss. Haven't seen it in years? That movie is a masterpiece. A masterpiece! Aliens is great too. How can anyone shit on Cameron's movies, even just a little? No one does sci-fi action like this man. No one. He's Spielberg with a pair. And he's way better at injecting sentimentality. Sentimentality that actually works. All of the big effects trilogies of the past decade, however satisfying or disappointing, have told me one thing. I miss James fucking Cameron. I just hope Avatar shows he's still got that magic. CHUD how dare you. Why not shit on Kubrick next.
Comment #92 (Posted by Jimbo)
Someone needs to reevaluate the LETHAL WEAPON series. Talk about not aging well (minus 2, which was still pretty good)...
Comment #93 (Posted by Pabstblurbbn)
Yeah, you guys have crawled up your own assholes with this one. T2 is far from a perfect film but goddammit if it isn't one of the best fun summer sequels of all time. Yes, the 2nd act does lag a bit, but most Cameron films do. Re-watch Aliens and the Abyss and try to tell me otherwise. The next thing I know you guys are gonna say that Die Hard is overblown or that Highlander 2 is an underrated gem. You guys seriously need a cranial rectal extraction.
Comment #94 (Posted by Hanover Fist)
I have to agree with the Overblown assesment. I didn't think this movie was as good as the original the FIRST time I saw it, nevermind more recent viewings. It is an okay to good movie, but not great. Furlong stinks, Arnie makes a terrible good guy (the thumbs up at the end was d-u-m-b dumb), and there were simply too many obvious plot holes. Yes the cgi f/x were amazing at the time, but they have not aged all that well.
Plus, the inroduction of Arnie in T2 is downright stupid compared to the eviscerating introduction we had in T1.
Comment #95 (Posted by Steve Barnes)
Jeremy Smith, allow me this well-reasoned, point-by-point retort to your Terminator 2 review:
Fuck you.
Comment #96 (Posted by CG)
Seriously. What a load of fucking bullshit. I bet we see Citizen Kane up there next under "Overrated". Russ and Beaks don't know what the hell they are talking about. Nick may be the voice of reason here, but it's time to END this fucking series.
Comment #97 (Posted by Storymark)
This article makes it pretty clear, the concept of this column has already run out of juice, and now they're just going to start ragging on good movies to get a rise out of the readers. Ah, well. It was good for a couple weeks, at least...
Comment #98 (Posted by Edward Furlong)
I'd like to thank the fans. (Mom!) Haters suck my Pecker. If you really want to shine on the peolpe giving attitude or some shit like that, rent American Heart, Before And After, Little Odessa, American History-X, And Animal Factory. Yeah, I also was the shit in Detroit Rock City!!! Later, dickwad. (Hasta la vista, baby!)
Comment #99 (Posted by Mike Hairy Hunt)
I really think you guys chose this classic to just get some controversy going, I mean holy shit, it's fucking T2! This has and always will be on my top 10 list. Really guys, next thing ya know you'll be saying Norbit sucked...now that movie was funny!
Comment #100 (Posted by RtoTheH)
You guys are hilarious. THIS is the movie you rally to defend? I mean I like it pretty well too, but...oy!
Comment #101 (Posted by dropout)
It's a good film, not doubt, but T2 is overblown, not that much, but people praise it more than it really needs. Especially considering it's just a remake of the first film. With a little (annoying) kid thrown seemingly to create a toy market for the film.
The first Terminator will always be the best one, poorer FX and total 80s style considering.
For the criticisms sequels get now a days, I don't understand how more people don't criticise T2. It layed down all the rules that create terrible sequels.
Comment #102 (Posted by jon waldman)
dear Dantheman,
I'm glad I'm not the only one who didn't even realize that some people thought the fog was a classic.
Comment #103 (Posted by Maul)
Bah, lost of creditability lost guys. It started with the Mist, it continues with this. I just don't trust the majority of C.H.U.D reviews anymore. I used to see or wait til dvd for most movies based on this site, but I really think our tastes are way off.
Comment #104 (Posted by The John Connor Historical Society)
I go back and forth on the Terminator not killing in the sequel . At first it seems a family values sell-out. Accept it as commentary on machine's ability to be reprogrammed from destroying/killing humans, in contrast with man's seemingly unchangable evil nature-it works. (Also underlines the importance of both father and mother positive role models in shaping the best we can be-great leaders aren't born, they're made)The film's message is hope after all. (There is no fate.) Our destiny is determined by us: "Because if a machine, a terminator can learn the value of human life...maybe we can too." Hard to argue with the theme (unless you're a staunch Calvinist). Or the feeling walking out of the theatre. (Cynicism is easy-respect for Cameron not going that route)

