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- THE DEVIN'S ADVOCATE: SLASHFILM BLAZES UP A FEUD WITH CHUD
THE DEVIN'S ADVOCATE: SLASHFILM BLAZES UP A FEUD WITH CHUD
- By Devin Faraci
- Published 04/10/2008
- The Devin's Advocate
I need to start this out by saying that I like Hunter Stephenson's work. Hunter writes for Slashfilm, and in an industry where good writing and interesting thinking is valued below having an internet connection, Hunter stands out as someone worth reading every day. I've never met the guy, but as a writer I like to read what he's saying, even when I disagree with him.But it seems like someone dusted Hunter's joint today. It's happened to me in the past, Hunter - you'll probably have a pretty fucked up 20 hours or so, but stay strong! One of the side effects of this inadvertent PCP doping is that Hunter has lumped me in with 'mocha-choking assholes' who apparently didn't like There Will Be Blood when it originally came out. He also claims that I've not 'come clean about what this film means and is about,' which he says is the triumph over God. You can read his whole thing by clicking here.
Well, let's take the first charge. I didn't actually review There Will Be Blood when it came out in theaters because I didn't know what to say. I was blown away by the film (and as a dyed in the wool PTA lover, expected no less), but I was also overwhelmed by it. One of the downsides of the freeform CHUD writing experience is that there are sometimes no deadlines, and instead of being forced to work out my thoughts, I just let the movie get by me. I regret that, and it's why I requested the DVD review - regular readers will know that I almost never do DVD reviews. I wanted to get my thoughts out there after all this time.
When I saw the movie I knew it was great but, as I said in my DVD review, I ended up ranking it below some films that touched me in a more personal way last year. One of the big problems with top tens, or with appending ratings to reviews, is that art lives in you, and the way you view a piece of art may change over time. A second viewing of There Will Be Blood allowed me to connect with emotional aspects of the movie that eluded me the first time, when I was mostly thunderstruck by the bravura filmmaking on display. If I were redoing my 2007 top ten now, I might change things around (or I might not - there's a political component to list making as well, and I still feel like Into the Wild remains a criminally overlooked movie).
So maybe Hunter's half right - I understood There Will Be Blood as a masterpiece of craft when I first saw it, but it took another viewing to get at the film's other aspects. Good on Hunter for connecting to those elements before I did, and good on him for putting himself out there and declaring the film a masterpiece right out the gate. If there's one thing I've learned in the last six or so years writing for CHUD it's that I like to be more careful throwing phrases like that around because it's all-too common to regret it in the morning.
Hunter's second charge is just sort of loopy, though. First of all, that's not what the movie's about. Hunter's very long and very interesting review of There Will Be Blood attempts to force his own take on the movie into what's presented (you know that Hunter's sort of in trouble when he compares the film's supposed God killing to Nirvana's Heart Shaped Box, a song not about God but Courtney Love). He seems to misunderstand Plainview in a significant way, seeing him as some kid of Ayn Randian hero against God. He seriously misreads the baptism scene while agreeing with me that it's the crucial moment in the movie - for Hunter it's about him faking religion, but it's obviously about Plainview opening up in a real, honest way for the first time maybe ever. It's the inherent irony of the whole picture - the false prophet has given Plainview a real awakening. As I said in my review, Plainview is born again a second time here; the first time is when he crawls from that hole in the opening, and this time he's crawling into a hole in himself.
The problem with Hunter's take on the movie is that it demands you to see the finale as a triumph for Plainview, which could not be any less the case. Plainview has allowed himself to be destroyed; he's a bitter and bent figure sitting in a huge empty house. He's turned his son against him (Hunter defends Plainview's parenting - even the horrible moment where he abandons HW on the train, the complete inverse of the caring adoptive father we saw on the train with the boy at the beginning - with the bizarre line 'And does H.W. end up in such bad shape in the end?'. Well, he's disowned by his father, who tries to psychically wound him with the fact that he was adopted. HW ends up okay in spite of Plainview), and he's unable to find any joy in life until he finally destroys the petty, shitty preacher who stood up to him years ago. This is a man running on hate. Only on hate. He makes Sunday confess to being a fraud, to not believing in God not because Plainview wants to kill the creator, but because he wants to destroy Sunday totally - within and without.
It's weird to read Hunter's interpretation of the film's final line:
The last lines in the film come from Plainview, with his back tellingly turned to the screen, utterly faceless, and thus the lines come from Paul Thomas Anderson as well: “I’m finished.”
For both of these men, the madness of religion, past, present and future, is completely over, and when you walk out of the theater, you wish it was over in the real world as well. Daniel Plainview ventured, perhaps all the way, to where all men must go sooner or later, and if they don’t they simply aren’t men.
There's a lot going on with that final line. Allow me to blow Hunter's mind here by telling him that it echoes the last words of Christ on the cross: "It is finished." But I don't think that Plainview is announcing his triumph over religion or God - he's just finished his task, the thing that was keeping him moving forward all of these years. Everything Plainview had and accumulated led him to this, to him alone and psychically ruined, getting his ultimate revenge on a man who was already beaten. Sunday walked into that bowling alley finished. Plainview just put the cherry on top.Of course I don't think Anderson is making nice with religion; there's no alternative positive religious figure in the film, and it's doubtless that Plainview does more for Little Boston than Sunday ever could. Anderson is essentially equating these two men, though - they both want to dominate. The way that Sunday treats his father stands in for how he sees his flock; like Plainview he despises these people. Like Plainview he can manipulate them to his own ends. The struggle between the men isn't about God or capitalism, it is simply about control. Both men want to subjugate people to their will; neither man cares about what they say they care about - souls for Sunday, money for Plainview. They're the same - although you could argue that they want what the other claims to want. Plainview desperately wants the love of a family; it's why he takes in Henry so quickly, and it's why he is so angry at HW for going it alone. Sunday wants money, and lots of it. Each man is unable to get what they want, and it leads to their dooms.
Imposing your own views on a movie is a time honored tradition, and one that can be rewarding when it's backed up with well-thought out arguments. I don't think Hunter makes his case, though, mainly because he insists on turning a blind eye to the reality of who Daniel Plainview is. I don't know that There Will Be Blood is intended as a tragedy per se, but where Plainview ends up is not a good place, and Anderson certainly doesn't mean for us to interpret it as such. This is like saying that Michael ends up well at the end of Godfather Part III because he lives so long. The guy's a fucking empty shell of a human being who has given up all that is good in his life - there's no positive spin to be put on those final moments, in either film.
So in closing, Hunter's totally wrong. Obviously this is no Kael vs Sarris level epic, but it's fun when critics can go head to head every now and again - it forces everybody involved to look at their own positions and raises the level of discourse just a notch. Even when you illustrate your piece with a lump of shit.
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Comments
Comment #1 (Posted by Pete J.)
Shut up lardo
Comment #2 (Posted by SleestakVaginaFace)
What a fucking crybaby...go eat another pizza or two, fatass.
Comment #3 (Posted by Craigo)
Adding this comment feature was a serious mistake. CHUD does not need Talkbacks.
Comment #4 (Posted by evldead)
Wow, what intelligent and thought provoking comments. Nice piece devin
Comment #5 (Posted by oslowe)
I think my favorite, and strangest, experience watching someone impose their own views on a movie was seeing a die-hard Bill Clinton supporter walking out of the awesome One False Move and lamenting that the WHOLE MOVIE was about how shitty Arkansas authority figures like to fuck girls, and was obviously written to satirize Bill C's rumored (at the time) dalliances.
I hope I told the guy he was an asshole, but that was a long fucking time ago.
Comment #6 (Posted by Crom)
Devin you should thank Hunter for lighting a fire under your ass because this is some of the best writing you've done in a good long while. Well done.
Comment #7 (Posted by an unknown user)
Whoooooooooooooooooo cares?
Comment #8 (Posted by Three Oranges)
"it's obviously about Plainview opening up in a real, honest way for the first time maybe ever."
This is not obvious. Not in the least. It is, in fact, wrong. While he may be admitting certain things to himself in this scene, and doing so may be painful to him, he does it only for the profit. The scene is not about the catharsis of his guilt, it's about what he's willing to sell. A careful examination of Lewis' performance in this scene will reveal an occasional sly smirk, as Plainview cognratulates himself on his epic deal-making, even as he flagellates himself spiritually. At the end of this, Plainview has learned nothing, and his resentment over the cost of this transaction is fundamental to his relationship with his fake brother and his ultimate rejection of his fake son.
Comment #9 (Posted by Rob)
*fart noise*
Comment #10 (Posted by Write On!)
Hate that you didn't force yourself to write a review back in December. Wrestling with your thoughts for us all to see, would've been good for you, & edutainment for us, the faithful readers. Even if you came to regret things said, or change your mind completely, I'm sure you'd be in company w. the greats, Ebert, Kael, Hunter. Deadline's a challenge. Rise to it.
Comment #11 (Posted by Friendo Calrissian)
I like the idea of the comments, but they turn out depressing. If such idiots as #1,2, 7, & 9 read this site, what does that make me for reading it? I don't want to be part of CHUD's 'community'.
Devin's writing is great, though.
Comment #12 (Posted by Pointless Man)
Hunter "worth reading every day"? Sheesh. After reading his ridiculous TWBB "rant" I think I can safely skip the guy for the rest of my life.
Comment #13 (Posted by Joseph)
Don't think the talkbacks were added in hopes for genuine communication of intelligent thought. Stupid comments equal as many extra page views as well-reasoned, articulate ones (maybe more so, because people feel the need to respond to the stupid comments, and most people let the smart comments just pass by). This was the point of the comments section. Devin has admitted as much in the forums. CHUD has gotten more interested in page views than actual content, so while this post was better than a lot of the drivel that's made up the bulk of this site's content lately, at its heart is a simple desire to evoke comments (2 page views per) and stir a meaningless debate (both Hunter and Devin have specific views of this movie which work for them but are by no means canonical, so there is no need for debate). Here you go Devin, here are my 2 page views for you.
Comment #14 (Posted by al starks)
i remember hearing laughs of validation from the crowd each time plainview one upped sunday. if you want to get overly caught up in the "bigger picture" of this film you should be able to hear it scream america has traded one god for another.
Comment #15 (Posted by Deren)
Who cares what that m-hole thinks about the movie? He's as sporadically funny as Judd Nelson. His take on the movie is fucktarded, classic example of someone who is not viewing the movie through universal themes but rather their own personal worldview. That's going to always be an element, but it is not a basis for an argument. I happen to be a Godless bastard and all of that but I would never look to a movie to confirm that. I love Dylan's Christan albums and don't have to see them as anything other than what they were: the product of someone who was fucking DIGGING jesus at the time.
What PTA thinks or does is not the point. the movie is not there to besolved, it is there to be discussed. Anything as assertive as this hotel cumstain is saying is missing the point. Enjoy the fucking movie and tell me how you felt about it, don't tell me what it inarguably means. That's some pee-wee shit.
Comment #16 (Posted by SleestakVaginaFace)
DF: "The problem with Hunter's take on the movie is that it demands you to see the finale as a triumph for Plainview, which could not be any less the case."
I don't see how your particular reading of the film contests any of his points. You should really try being a critical reviewer of film instead of a massive egotistical fucktard with bad hair and crazy eyes.
Comment #17 (Posted by AgentB)
Slashfilm's review is like listening to Dr. Uwe Boll's latest rant. Fantastic works, boys.
Comment #18 (Posted by Jason)
Great response, Devin. You had some brilliant points.
Comment #19 (Posted by derek)
Three Oranges :
I have to disagree with you here. I think that Daniel is obviously there just to get the land, but he ends up having to honestly face what he did to HW. While its become something of a joke now, the "I abandoned my boy" yell is his one moment of truth in that scene, and as Devin says, maybe ever.
Daniel is interested in one thing, being better than everyone else; he spends the entire film working to one up people.
Comment #20 (Posted by M)
I think you're completely right. If you know anything about Upton Sinclair's views on capitalism and religion, too, you'd see that he views religions as merely a money-making scheme, and while I may disagree, it certainly plays out that way in the movie. The men are clearly placed in parallel and neither is heroic (after the scene where Daniel rejects his son, can anyone really see him as anything but destroyed?) - Daniel is just more successful because he's smart and the preacher isn't (otherwise HE'D be in oil or some other capitalist business, exploiting in a more real way). I need a good article on whether this was supposed to link up to Iraq.
I also thought the ending was completely out of character for the rest of the film - it was as if Plainview's symbols became reality, rather than his reality becoming symbolic as in the rest of the film. It made no sense thematically or really in terms of the character himself - why would Plainview even want to kill the preacher? He defeated him long ago, and the rest of the men he superceded - the other oil men, his own son - aren't dead. The only dead one is his fake brother, and the link there is pretty tenuous. That may be part of the reason why there's disagreement - everyone's struggling to put together pieces that don't fit even though they desperately want them to.
Comment #21 (Posted by Johnny Daywalker)
Great piece Devin and I admire how civil and absolutely thorough you were here. Well done and a great piece to read and I totally agree with you about There Will Be Blood.
Comment #22 (Posted by Brad)
With the "I'm Finished" line I also read into that an admission by Plainview, sitting in that pool of blood, that he's well and truly fucked. Maybe I'm mis-reading it, but I loved that about that final line... just so many possible layers of meaning.
Comment #23 (Posted by solartaco)
You fucking drama-fucking queens! This is why ainitcool will always be better than you smug assholes! Bitch bitch bitch bitch! Jesus fuck!
Comment #24 (Posted by Darkcity)
This makes up for the dump on PDL the other day...this is also why i love coming to these websites
Comment #25 (Posted by MapMonkey)
I lost all interest in what he had to say once he wrote, "Srsly." He could have been 100% right in his "analysis", but if he can't even use proper grammar and spelling, his entire argument became moot.
Nice try, junior. Go smoke your giant joint and eat some White Castle. Us grown ups will be here at CHUD.
Comment #26 (Posted by Critch)
Why would anyone listen to a review from Devin, the man who brought us "Fantastic 4 is better than Batman begins."
Comment #27 (Posted by RCA)
I agree with Three Oranges, I don't know if it is so much of a rebirth as it is him going to the lowest depths to get what he wants. It definitely does affect him, but I don't know if he is necessarily "reborn", I think it just shows the toll that greed takes on him spiritually and reflects a lot of aspects of our society where you have to be morally bankrupt in order to become successful(like writing for CHUD...jk). If Plainview doesn't lie to people and abandon his son, he would never be able to end up in his giant mansion. If he kept himself to maybe one or two wells he would probably have a great family and lots of friends, but live in much more modest arrangements. Plainview knows very well, however, if he doesn't take everything over, someone else who has more balls will come along and squash him if he tries to remain passive. As a result, the simple life is just not an acceptable option as it ultimately will end in defeat in the long run. Same goes for Sunday, if he doesn't con people with religion, he would simply be a poor farm boy instead of Jesus Christ Superstar. Either way, this is a great movie. Just wish it was on Blu-Ray.
Comment #28 (Posted by mo)
It's always funny when whiny internet writers bitch at each other. Meeow! Have a shave Devin and grow up. Same for Hunter probably.
Comment #29 (Posted by XTRO man)
Wow! Someone hates Devin..what a shocker.
Devin, this "article" = ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
Comment #30 (Posted by Ed)
Because you know, talkbalks work so well for AintItCool. There's a perfectly good message board here, why not just leave it at that? With Talkbacks you're pretty much just asking for one liners and nine times out of ten they're idiotic and just not funny.
Comment #31 (Posted by AnonymousTalkbackPoster#2,157)
Good read, Devin. Love the points and indeed you are correct when you say its nice to see critics well, critique each other. Now, if that carried over to this websites own writers, maybe you wouldn't have the monotonous Phil bashing going on.
Comment #32 (Posted by Voivodling)
Wow ... an Elitist bashes an Elitist? What is the world coming to? Hopefully, both parties will recover from how much the movie "moved" them and go on to productive lives singing the praises of movies that four people in North America have seen, while bashing all of those nasty "popular" movies ... because, what the hell does the public know anyway? Hopefully.
Pass the popcorn.
OPIE AND ANTHONY! O&A PARTY ROCK! XM 202!
Comment #33 (Posted by JDawson)
Hey Devin. Great critique, however, you kind of lost me when discussing the final line of the movie. I saw no connection between Daniel and Jesus Christ and think that is definitely a stretch to the imagination.
I took the line of 'I'm finished' to mean just specifically that, a man, who on his final days of freedom realizing his dreams and aspirations of greed, control, and oil are finally over...and now he can go to jail. Maybe I'm thinking to small here.
Comment #34 (Posted by Craven Manass)
How come commenter # 11 is such a fag?
Comment #35 (Posted by Josh)
I really don't see why the baptism is seen as a rebirth. You can tell when he gets up to go to the front what his intention is. He hesitates, not because he's rethinking it or feels embarassed, but because he's thinking about how fucking ridiculous and trivial the whole thing is. What a pain in the ass it is. If anything it makes him hate humanity even more that he has to participate in such a silly ritual. They call a second time and he instants gets up, like he's just thrown himself into the task at hand. But it is just a task to him. An inconvenient ends to a means. When he yells "I've abandoned my boy!" he isn't feeling regret. He's basically saying "Yea I did! I abandoned my own son because I have shit to do. And I'll get that shit done no matter who tries to stand in my way. So fuck you people. You peasants." The only real significance of the scene is that this is where he makes his real fortune. It has nothing to do with his emotional state.
I also don't see why he's being born out of the earth at the beginning either. It's a bit too obvious an interpretation to me. Sure he breaks his leg and has to fight like a bastard to get up that ladder, but he doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who hasn't been doing this for a long time already. I also don't think this is the first accident he's had on the job. He doesn't seem shaken up by it at all. There's no moment of panic. He just pushes himself back to town on his back, and lies there nonchalantly as they analyze his samples (or whatever it was they were doing, I'm not a fucking miner). The scene for me just told me that, yea mining is dangerous, back-breaking work, and yea Daniel Plainview is tough enough to weather that routine. It just seemed like a "for instance" of his everyday life to me.
I mean he plainly says at one point that he hates people and wants to be left alone. I don't think he finds anything during the course of the movie that alters this perception, and I don't think he ever intended to really. There's no real arc to him. It's just a character study. And he doesn't hate God in particular or have any need to triumph over religion. For him, these things are just more of the behaviors of people which digust him. Of course, I myself am a godless misanthrope so maybe we all just see what we want to see.
Comment #36 (Posted by Visual Aids)
I realise that the internet mostly runs on impotent spite and half-assed shit-slinging, but could the people who just leave insults on the posting board go and do it in a schoolyard like they used to instead of bashing it out on their doubtless semen glazed laptops?
Or, I don't know, crawl back in their mothers and try again, this time with backbone?
Comment #37 (Posted by mr_adam)
I think both of you are right about the baptism scene, yes he's faking it, obviously he's no believer and no amount of preaching is going to change that (the 'I abandoned my son' is not a heartfelt admission but theatrically delivered forced attrition), but he does have a re-birth in so much as he now knows that he will break Sunday, make him give up his god and kill him, look at the hate in Plainview (and Sunday) in that scene, before then Plainview merely tolerates Sunday's bible-bashing as an inconvenient distraction and where possible a source of manipulation, but now he knows that the boy has got to go. That to me is what snaps in him.
As for the last line, I think it was clearly ambiguous I like to think he meant "I'm finished - butler, please clean up this dead man's brains, ditch his body in the creek and get cracking on my breakfast." But it could also be seen as a third violent "birth" if we are going that way.
Keep writing Devin, fuck the haters.
Comment #38 (Posted by Supa Dupa)
This might be reaching a bit, but I saw Mary Sunday as an alternative positive religious figure. In that baptism scene, after Plainview has been laid bare by the petty Sunday and he has made his way back to his pew, young Mary embraces him for a long time. This combined with the fact that she is the one who saves H.W. from the cruel influence of his father, makes me think that maybe she was supposed to prove just a small counterweight to the faux-religion of her brother. I disagree about Hunter's interpretation of the fate of H.W. as well. As Devin said, he succeeded in spite of his father, not because of him. And in a movie where every line seems to count for something and nothing is wasted, I think it may be telling that H.W.'s final lines are "I thank God that I have none of you in me". So in conclusion, I also don't think P.T. Anderson intended this as some grand statement about killing God. Great movie though, one that will inspire debate and discussion for years to come. Thanks for the great article Devin
Comment #39 (Posted by graeme)
what a bandwagonner you are. have the balls to form your own opinions, rather than waiting to fall in line behind the other sheep.
Comment #40 (Posted by The Mighty Joe)
very good article and I could not agree with you more
Comment #41 (Posted by Jack Kerouac)
Shut up, fatass. This stupid comment section is just here to increase page views.
Comment #42 (Posted by Josh)
I don't think Plainview's killing of Sunday was premeditated at all. In fact there's a bit of a pause before he starts the bludgeoning where he seems to just think, yea fuck this guy. He's knocked the wimpering little bastard down and he just decides why not take it all the way. He was never really threatened by Sunday. He hates him, but never considered him more than a snivering pain in the ass. That's also why I think the line "I'm finished" is pretty much just him telling the butler he has some cleaning up to do. Rich people don't go to jail, especially in that time period. I never got the sense that Plainview would pay for the murder at all. And I also don't think Mary is the positive religious figure. I think she's just another victim in the film. In fact it's said that her father beats her for not praying enough, a family situation which I think is more likely to turn the girl away from religion altogether. When she embraces Plainview he does seem to pity her. She's as stifled by religion as Plainview. The movie is all about strong people vs weak people and the resulting victimizations from those unequalities. Sunday is stronger than his father. Mary is weaker than her father. Henry was the weaker (faux-)brother. Sunday's sneaky twin was stronger and smarter. And in some ways HW is actually stronger than Plainview himself.
Comment #43 (Posted by Feetus)
I always assumed "I'm Finished" was a way of showing that Plainview was reduced to state of a helpless child who just took a dump and needs somebody to wipe his ass.
Comment #44 (Posted by Michael)
#36 says it all. Better point than this article.
Comment #45 (Posted by Devin Faraci)
Lalalalala, my opinions shine like the golden light of Hermes! I know better than other people who write things on the internet! Blah blah blah blah blah, poop!
Comment #46 (Posted by dave)
Hmmm...thats your only problem devin, you think your perceptions of a film are correct. Art means different things to different people. Whatever, you went to college and i didnt so you lots smarter, wait you made a sober decision to actually live in LA, you big dummy
Comment #47 (Posted by syms)
hunter may be crazy but he is more on the money. man creates god, man destroys god. with a bowling pin.